smoke bomb

[davie]

To those who were responsible for this, you should hear loud and clear that today you did our fans and our club great harm. Just because you got away with it at Dingwall, and were warned against a repeat does not mean that you got away with it this time. Easter road is brimming with CCTV cameras and you were caught on film. It's just a question of whether or not anyone from either club or the police can identify you. I suspect that they can, and if we can help to identify you, we will.

It is utterly unacceptable for any ICT fan to throw things on to the field of play. As Caley Jags Together, we are committed to representing fans views, fans perceptions and fans rights. We are about to meet with the Police about chanting at derby games and you, whoever you are, have just made our job ten times harder.

Please, we never want to see this again.

[BornCaley]

Missed this incident! But Question: Where do people buy these things? Im not asking so i can buy them; Im just thinking about what possible purpose do they serve! Surely the authorities should be cracking down on retailers who sell them?

[Joe DiMaggio]

Bit of an over reaction. Why bother even mentioning it. It won't do the club any harm at all. Nothing will happen about it, from the clubs perspective anyway. Not sure who's views you claim to represent cause they aren't mine

[clacher_holiday2]

nor mine, these ott reactions are not going to help anyone, least of all the fans.

whoever threw the smoke bomb will be dealt with by the local police in the same way theyve dealt with fans who have done the same at other games, most recent being the edinburgh derby earlier this month.

if the police want to bring up the issue of missiles being thrown on the park aswell as chanting, then let them do so and answer each seperately. what you are telling us is caley jags together consider all fan incidents to be linked regardless of their nature, which will in future cause innocent fans to be deemed guilty by association.

one person carrying a smoke bomb into the ground, then throwing it, is not the fault of the dozens of people required to chant something considered offensive. the police cannot arrest an entire group of people for one offence and then accuse all of them of another, so what gives cjt the right to do it? not everybody who throws a smoke bomb will chant something considered offensive or vice versa.

count me as somebody cjt doesn't represent.

[ictbob]

Flock off davie

[Bush]

CJT can represent me on this. The behaviour of the fans reflects and impacts on the club, and also impacts on how we are stewarded at games home and away.

The use of smoke bombs in this environment is an offence and, as it affects all fans and the club, I am surprised that more aren't condeming it.

[davie]

Ok I'll leave CJT out of this, and address it purely as a caley thistle fan. This is a purely personal reply to the points raised above.

 

This is the second time that kick off has been held up in a game involving us which is televised and is therefore contracted to begin at a certain time. The SFL will be unhappy about this, and can sanction the club. The club is responsible for the conduct of its fans home and away and are in an awkward position with this, and I believe that we were warned after the County game.

 

Yes, local police will deal with it if they can identify anyone at the time but so will Focus, their specialist football unit. This will result in increased surviellance on all ICT fans, increased bag searches (this happened after the County game and people complained - few made the connection) a more controlling approach to us at away grounds and less leeway for standing etc. There are unintended consequences here, but consequences none the less.

 

Because CCTV records crowds at all SPL venues, someone is going to be identified and prosecuted. They will belong to the same group of lads who bring colour and passion to our support (they did again yesterday) and one of them will end up with a criminal record over this. It does involve a group of people - you can't lob a smoke canister over a crowd of people with no one around you seeing it and your mates not knowing you had the thing, and those around you are associated and implicated in what you do. These are the same lads that sing and chant and they will be targetted by association, and that would be a great shame. Can you honestly say hand on heart that they will not sing anything about gypsy travellers at the next game and put themselves at risk with a police force that is already watching them? Even with the intervention of others to clarify what is and isn't acceptable to sing /chant, we know one thing - it is clearly an offence to throw pyrotechnics at a football match. No grey area here.

 

So I'm not concerned by causing guilt by association with a group of our fans, they have effectively done that themselves. I'm not convinced that the police will seperate out the issues, they will simply look to apply whatever legislation when enforcing the law. They will have done that with any others arrested at the game, and I don't want to see them have to do it to more.

[Kingsmills]

I agree entirely with the original poster. Sincerely hope the culprits are caught this time and that any punishment includes a football banning order.

[clacher_holiday2]

The game wasnt on TV yesterday.

 

"I'm not convinced that the police will seperate out the issues, they will simply look to apply whatever legislation when enforcing the law. They will have done that with any others arrested at the game, and I don't want to see them have to do it to more."

 

Theyre going to have to separate the issues, you cant use stop and search powers to check for somebody shouting gypsy and you cant assume that everybody who throws a smoke bomb is going to shout something offensive.

 

"they will simply look to apply whatever legislation when enforcing the law" - you think they'll just make it up as they go along?

[+bughtmaster]

Throwing smoke bombs...Pointless really never does any good, only harm.

 

Offensive chanting.........pure ignorance, We are worth better.

[Joonya]

Clacher - I think the point davie is trying to make is that people complained about the treatment received by stewards after a similar incident over the bridge.

People have also been querying there rights as fans in terms of what they are allowed to do, and even say/sing at matches.

When the fans representitive group of CJT was asked what they were going to do about it, they set about organising meetings with police to establish reasons why ICT fans in particular were being scrutinised for enjoying themselves.

When idiots throw items onto the park, they are once again doing themselves no favors, and police and stewards will only in turn assiciate the majority of our fanbase with these individuals.

The person who threw the smoke bomb should, and no doubt will, be caught and punished approproately.

[Big G]

" There are none so blind as those who will not see"

 

This is damaging to the club and supporters.

[Joe DiMaggio]

Ok I'll leave CJT out of this, and address it purely as a caley thistle fan. This is a purely personal reply to the points raised above.

 

This is the second time that kick off has been held up in a game involving us which is televised and is therefore contracted to begin at a certain time. The SFL will be unhappy about this, and can sanction the club. The club is responsible for the conduct of its fans home and away and are in an awkward position with this, and I believe that we were warned after the County game.

 

Yes, local police will deal with it if they can identify anyone at the time but so will Focus, their specialist football unit. This will result in increased surviellance on all ICT fans, increased bag searches (this happened after the County game and people complained - few made the connection) a more controlling approach to us at away grounds and less leeway for standing etc. There are unintended consequences here, but consequences none the less.

 

Because CCTV records crowds at all SPL venues, someone is going to be identified and prosecuted. They will belong to the same group of lads who bring colour and passion to our support (they did again yesterday) and one of them will end up with a criminal record over this. It does involve a group of people - you can't lob a smoke canister over a crowd of people with no one around you seeing it and your mates not knowing you had the thing, and those around you are associated and implicated in what you do. These are the same lads that sing and chant and they will be targetted by association, and that would be a great shame. Can you honestly say hand on heart that they will not sing anything about gypsy travellers at the next game and put themselves at risk with a police force that is already watching them? Even with the intervention of others to clarify what is and isn't acceptable to sing /chant, we know one thing - it is clearly an offence to throw pyrotechnics at a football match. No grey area here.

 

So I'm not concerned by causing guilt by association with a group of our fans, they have effectively done that themselves. I'm not convinced that the police will seperate out the issues, they will simply look to apply whatever legislation when enforcing the law. They will have done that with any others arrested at the game, and I don't want to see them have to do it to more.

 

That is another over reaction. The club will not face consequences. No other club in Scotland have and many have used smoke bombs a lot more than we have. Also being over dramatic again with people around them implicated etc etc. It was a smoke bomb, big deal. If the police want to deal with it they can, let them do that job, it's not a job for you or for your group to even bring up.

 

You also said earlier that your 'job' has been made 10 times harder meeting the police. No it hasn't. Local police might want to talk about singing but so far that is it. Why would they bring up a smoke bomb in Edinburgh that they might not even be aware about. It seems from your posts that you are desperate to go to this meeting and bring it up. There is no reason for you to mention it at all. Just forget about it, it has nothing to do with this 'cjt' group and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The police will deal with it if they want to, it is not for you to deal with or bring it up.

 

There was no reasong for you to even start this topic. So stop getting so excited about it

[davie]

Joe, I stand by my points and any reaction I might have had to the incident, but we are going to have to agree to disagree about this. That's life.

[davieB]

 

Thank god we don't have fans that behave like this! Skip to about 1.58.

[jonahict]

Thank god we don't have fans that behave like this! Skip to about 1.58.

[Joonya]

Joe, in much the way you feel davie is overreacting, I think you're perhaps being a little undersighted.

Any incident that has potential to cause police involvement will put fans in bad light, no matter the club they support or the severity of the issue, or indeed wether you know the culprits or not. The CJT group work damn hard to represent the fans and ensure we don't get the tag of 'hooligans' (or whatever) and any incident that can add fuel to the police's stance WILL make it harder for CJT to defend. Be it twice as hard or 10 times as hard.

Point is, no matter how harmless these bombs are, police will view it as dangerous and hooliganistic.

This day in age, I'd wager the Hearts fans who threw toilet rolls when they equalised will also be looked out and questioned also.

[jonahict]

OR THIS

The lech Poznan club get fined when flares are set off at grounds but the fans pay the fine BEFORE the games.

I don't agree with smoke bombs being thrown but would love north stand to do that against someone,

[clacher_holiday2]

I dont understand what the CJT group are going to ask in this meeting with the police, are you going to ask them if its ok for ICT fans to call Ross County fans Gypsy B@stards? 

 

Everybody knows why they get searched and everybody knows why offensive singing at football games is not appropriate, how can searching fans be questioned at all when some take smoke bombs into the stadium?  Are you going to have the police explain the obvious? 

 

You don't represent anybody but yourselves, so you cant know others motives nor do you have any right defending or policing them. 

 

If you want a real issue that CJT can raise with the police, how about the age old one of having different rules for home fans than away fans, especially the OF fans who come to the TCS.  If they can reassure you that not a single offensive song, no missiles and not a single punter will be allowed to stand in the away end at the Celtic game later this month then, you will have achieved something.

 

As for identifying fans and helping the police catch them, thats fine too but again, do it for the away end v Celtic, bring your own cameras if need be.

 

If theres a single decent negotiator amongst you it won't be a difficult point to press home.

[Joonya]

Completely and utterly false in the assumption/opinion that CJT only represent themselves. I for one take massive offence to that notion! 100%!

If you wish me to explain why, feel free to PM me an I will reply!

[bigjohn]

I saw how far that thing travelled and I saw the speed it came down at. I don't know how heavy these things are but it looked like it had a metal casing and again I'm assuming, but I would imagine it weighed about the same as half a brick. There were kids in the line of fire ffs. If that thing hit anybody on the back of the head,including Reguero, it could have been a serious injury or worse. Because it's a smoke bomb some people think its a bit of harmless fun, get a grip, somebody could have been killed. Imagine it had been a brick then we would all be shouting for the person responsible to be hung drawn and quartered for being so irresponsible, naive or just downright stupid. Find them and jail them I say. I'm sure his/her parents must be so proud.

[clacher_holiday2]

I fully appreciate everything that Caley Jags Together has done, both the trust and supporters club over the years have worked hard for little reward, I'd never question that.  The eventual coming together of the two groups was a no brainer.

 

That doesnt mean they have a monopoly on representing fans views and should never presume as much.

 

Davies opening post in this thread mentioned offensive singing and your post mentioned hooliganism, if in your eyes all of the above is linked to the incident involving some kiddie throwing a sparkler then obviously the local authorities will have every right to do the same.

 

In one of your own posts you say- "The person who threw the smoke bomb should, and no doubt will, be caught and punished appropriately.", isn't that the end of the matter as far as other fans are concerned?

 

Just like the singing of offensive songs, by all means let CJT question how offensive calling somebody a Gypsy is within the context of a Highland Derby, even though we all know the police comeback will be obvious and unquestionable.  The actual punishment for singing something that offends can only again be dealt with my the police.

 

The only thing that CJT could possibly agree with the local authorities is to ask for the opportunity to self police these issues, much like Davie hints at in his opening post with outing the person throwing the smoke bomb.  If you're going to throw in offensive singing, hooliganism, people turning up to games drunk, fans standing etc etc etc then theres is absolutely no chance of CJT ever stopping it.

 

The issue I have is pretty much what Joe accused you guys of doing, making a mountain out of a molehill, the plod in Edinburgh will eventually deal with the person throwing the smoke bomb and CJT have no real need to bring it up themselves.

 

If you want to style yourselves as the voice of the fans then expect the police to eventually come calling on your doors when something serious happens, theres a danger taking up the baton of doing the polices job for them could backfire.

[Joe DiMaggio]

somebody could have been killed.

Imagine it had been a brick

 

Taking over reacting to new levels.

 

And yes all across Europe every week fans throw bricks onto the pitch.

 

Imagine it had been a real bomb or even a nuclear weapon, I think CJT should bring this up as no nuclear weapons should be allowed in Caley Park ever. They can represent my views on that...

[clacher_holiday2]

somebody could have been killed

 

 

[clacher_holiday2]

A football fan let off a smoke bomb during a tie between Ayr United and Airdrie United.

 

James Doolan was jailed for six months and banned from attending football matches for seven years on Wednesday.

 

He set off the pyrotechnic during the First Division play off game between the teams on May 9 at Airdrie’s Excelsior Stadium.

 

Doolan, 40, had been arrested at his home in Troon in July over the incident.

 

He was sentenced for the offence at Airdrie Sheriff Court.

 

Airdrie won the match 3-1, which consigned Ayr United to Division Two for this season.

 

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/192045-football-fan-let-off-smoke-bomb-at-airdrie-united-v-ayr-united-game/

 

6 months.

 

 

District judge Maurice Champion said: "This was an appalling act of utter recklessness.

"If that grenade had gone off in that stadium I can't even begin to think what would have happened."

 

 

Wells, of Wallingford, Oxfordshire, admitted possession of a firework or flare at a sporting event in view of the pitch on April 21.

Angela Furniss, for the Crown Prosecution Service, said Wells was among about 800 Oxford United fans at the Barn Park end for the League 2 match with Argyle.

She added he was spotted holding a green canister in his right hand at the top of the stand at about 2.45pm.

Mrs Furniss said he put the canister in the pocket of his hooded top and then dropped it on to the floor as stewards approached.

She added the canister was found to be a Hanger 18 smoke grenade, usually used in paintball games.

Will Willden, for Wells, said the season ticket holder was handed the canister and had no intention of pulling the pin to set it off.

He added he had intended to dispose of the grenade after the match.

Mr Willden said he should have handed in the device to stewards but feared he would get into trouble.

He added Wells wanted to apologise for the offence.

Mr Champion said: "I take this offence very seriously. Football is family entertainment and having this sort of weapon could cause a degree of confusion.

"There could be quite serious results if used."

The judge jailed him for two months and gave him a six-year football banning order, which prohibits him from all professional games.

 

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Away-fan-smoke-grenade-Plymouth-Argyle-s-Home/story-16632248-detail/story.html

 

2 months.

 

 

People do get in trouble for these things, do CJT really want to be seen as representing them?