The Big Scottish Independence Debate

[+DoofersDad]

Speaking of unreliable polls, I was at a comedy show last night (Ed Byrne) and he did a bit about independence and took a straw poll of the audience's voting intentions. I was quite surprised that in the SNP stronghold of Perth, it was probably about 75% no. He mentioned that Edinburgh was similar.

 

He's in Inverness in a few days, will that be any different?

 

One has to be very careful about how one interprets poll results.  Maybe what this shows it that yes voters don't like Ed Byrne.

 

I do like Ed Byrne so maybe I'll vote "no" then.

[Oddquine]

 

Speaking of unreliable polls, I was at a comedy show last night (Ed Byrne) and he did a bit about independence and took a straw poll of the audience's voting intentions. I was quite surprised that in the SNP stronghold of Perth, it was probably about 75% no. He mentioned that Edinburgh was similar.

 

He's in Inverness in a few days, will that be any different?

 

One has to be very careful about how one interprets poll results.  Maybe what this shows it that yes voters don't like Ed Byrne.

 

I do like Ed Byrne so maybe I'll vote "no" then.

 

Yep.......I do as well....so maybe I'll vote no as well........absolutely NOT!

[Oddquine]

What about Dave Cameron sh##ting it from a debate with Salmond?

Nice of him to leave it up to Scots to debate the issues, I trust he and his rotten government will refrain from commenting on this issue in the year to come.

 

Yeah..right!

[PullMyFinger]

http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/latest-naughtie-debrief/

[PullMyFinger]

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-power-of-six/

[Oddquine]

Noticed this tonight........and thought, given the almost irrational thumbs-ups and  "woohoos" from pro-Union supporters re any and every non-representative poll in existence.which supposrs their view of things......it was worth noting.  Got to get a bit of fun into this current gobsmackingly boring, biased  pro-union controlled media debate so .http://modernscotsman.com/vote-yes-or-no-7-day-random-poll-for-scottish-independence/. is my offer.  92% for yes...read it and weep CB and Yngwie!

 

I'm on twitter, tbh...but have to say I didn't vote in it.....because, having spent as much time trying to reduce my tweets to 140 characters as I do to produce an essay on here(as in hours)......I have only ever made one tweet......so I am in it but not of it.....if you understand me. .and just stalk my grandchildren on it now!

Edited September 30, 2013 by Oddquine

[The Mantis]

Even more good news:

Barrowman Says No! 

[Oddquine]

And now the bad news for those who were hoping the Tories wouldn't respond to this referendum the way they did in 1979.....and give us something more useful than the Scotland Act 2012    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/no-further-tax-powers-for-scotland-says-david-cameron-1-2084365

 

They must think we have had enough scaremongering.to keep the Union intact..........so now come the promises!   And given everything Scotland is allowed to have has to get through the UK Parliament.....I can't see Labour doing any more.

[+DoofersDad]

Noticed this tonight........and thought, given the almost irrational thumbs-ups and  "woohoos" from pro-Union supporters re any and every non-representative poll in existence.which supposrs their view of things......it was worth noting.  Got to get a bit of fun into this current gobsmackingly boring, biased  pro-union controlled media debate so .http://modernscotsman.com/vote-yes-or-no-7-day-random-poll-for-scottish-independence/. is my offer.  92% for yes...read it and weep CB and Yngwie!

 

I'm on twitter, tbh...but have to say I didn't vote in it.....because, having spent as much time trying to reduce my tweets to 140 characters as I do to produce an essay on here(as in hours)......I have only ever made one tweet......so I am in it but not of it.....if you understand me. .and just stalk my grandchildren on it now!

 

It's a Twitter poll and you're right to laugh it off, Oddquine.  The fact that 92% of twits are in favour of independence is not something the yes campaign should be quoting in their support.

[Yngwie]

Even more good news:

Barrowman Says No! 

 

I quite like the idea of keeping an eye on the media for the most obscure "celebrity" to kindly offer us their opinion on independence. Bonus points if they aren't even entitled to vote.

[Oddquine]

 

Noticed this tonight........and thought, given the almost irrational thumbs-ups and  "woohoos" from pro-Union supporters re any and every non-representative poll in existence.which supposrs their view of things......it was worth noting.  Got to get a bit of fun into this current gobsmackingly boring, biased  pro-union controlled media debate so .http://modernscotsman.com/vote-yes-or-no-7-day-random-poll-for-scottish-independence/. is my offer.  92% for yes...read it and weep CB and Yngwie!

 

I'm on twitter, tbh...but have to say I didn't vote in it.....because, having spent as much time trying to reduce my tweets to 140 characters as I do to produce an essay on here(as in hours)......I have only ever made one tweet......so I am in it but not of it.....if you understand me. .and just stalk my grandchildren on it now!

 

It's a Twitter poll and you're right to laugh it off, Oddquine.  The fact that 92% of twits are in favour of independence is not something the yes campaign should be quoting in their support.

 

 

I agree.but to be fair I didn't get directed to it.I found it myself....surprising what a varied mix of words in Google will turn up. .Haven't noticed the "yes" campaign linking to it, but quite likely they have..maybe to counteract the pro-Unionist media bigging up the Aberdeenshire schools poll..which is something I have noticed!

 

My point, tbh, after the gloating over the Aberdeenshire Schools poll on here by some people, was more to say that unrepresentative polls are unrepresentative polls.and mean sod all in the great scheme of things a year ahead of the referendum.   I am hard pushed to believe any "official" polls for either side...having (only once) experienced on the street political polling in my hometown, which was biased to the extreme and manipulated to get the result which suited their agenda....and given the result of the 2011 Scottish election, which was only forecast by one single polling agency out of a plethora (the same agency which makes the result closer than the others do atm), I really don't understand why anybody sets such a store by polls....although the broadcasting of them all over the place is pretty much propaganda.....because nobody likes to be on the losing side..and given the impression that more are against than for(in this case)....a lot of people will go with what they perceive to be the flow.....which isn't helped by Project Fear which encourages the feart to go with what they know. No problem with those who are British first and Scottish second..but I genuinely don't understand .how, if 62% of Scots in 2011 Census claimed to be "Scottish Only"  they are not now happy with the prospect of living in a country run by Scots for Scots.

 

I remember the sig of an acquaintance on another forum, which she has had since 2008 to my knowledge,The Bluebell of Scotland is hanging her head, The Lion, once rampant, is lying like dead........and I will adopt it myself if we vote No.

 

My current main sig all over the internet is where am I going and what am I doing in this hand basket....and If  we vote No...the hand basket will have touched down in Hell.....for me.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Oddquine

[Alex MacLeod]

Speaking of unreliable polls, I was at a comedy show last night (Ed Byrne) and he did a bit about independence and took a straw poll of the audience's voting intentions. I was quite surprised that in the SNP stronghold of Perth, it was probably about 75% no. He mentioned that Edinburgh was similar.

 

He's in Inverness in a few days, will that be any different?

Maybe thats because YES voters have more sense than to pay good money to see Ed Byrne live. He's on the comedy channel every other night with the same jokes.

[Alex MacLeod]

Oddquine - Written by Gordon Menzies of Gaberlunzie and frequently sung by Kenny Jamieson of Schiehallion 

 

Come charge up your glasses and lets drink a toast,

To the bold Scottish heroes and the proud Scottish host,

To the battles we've won and the few that we've lost

Here's a health to the back of Schiehallion.

 

Chorus :

Schiehallion, Schiehallion, I hear your voice calling,

Across the Great Glen to the coast of Argyll.

The Lowlands, The Highlands, The Borders, The Islands,

I'll drink to the back of Schiehallion.

 

The bluebell of Scotland is hanging her head,

And the lion once rampant is lying like dead.

They grieve for their country whose courage has fled

Far awa' tae the back of Schiehallion.

 

God speed the day when the Scots shall awake,

The fetters of England to crack and to break.

And stand by the freedom their birthright to take

Here's a health to the back of Schiehallion.

[Oddquine]

Just been reading right through this thread.....because I hadn't read it since the amalgamation..... I  just joined on the end.. .and noticed I had said Yngwie instead of  FoolPhysio  in the read it and weep comment in post #260.  Apologies, Yngwie.

 

While I'm on anyway.....interested to see that at long last HMRC is having a go at apportioning the tax take into receipts from the constituent UK countries. Results for Scotland are pretty much the same as those used in compiling GERS..... http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/receipts/disagg-info.pdf   though no clarity as to whether the Scottish Geographical share of oil revenues going to Westminster includes that in the appropriated 6000 square miles.

 

Maybe they'll have a go at doing the same with separating out what the constituent UK Countries actually receive from Westminster in return for their input outside Barnett formula pocket money and welfare benefits and pensions..and what disappears into the UK black pit of indebtedness.

[dougal]

So Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are Scotland's dream duo are they?

Its time to start looking for employment and property elsewhere if that is what the majority think

Everywhere north of Perth will be like being behind the iron curtain

Dougal

[Oddquine]

So Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are Scotland's dream duo are they?

Its time to start looking for employment and property elsewhere if that is what the majority think

Everywhere north of Perth will be like being behind the iron curtain

Dougal

 

No...why on earth would you think that, Dougal?  But they are the team which will lead the negotiations of the Independence terms of settlement, when/if we vote for Independence........and.I should think not as the only party/group represented.  After that, who governs us will be up to us!  If the only viable option is the SNP come 2016.then we will have only ourselves to blame, don't you think?  Maybe about time the Scottish Branches of the UK Parties registered to be eligible to stand in Scotland......bound to be some of them who are competent politicians...aren't there?

Edited October 3, 2013 by Oddquine

[The Mantis]

Bateman on the BBC

[Oddquine]

Bateman on the BBC

 

Luckily I have bookmarked both  Bateman's blogs . http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/. and http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/.. because I'm not about to to pay to read the Herald or any other "news"paper.....and have used up my free allowance on Herald "Scotland"  for the moment. But, to be fair, he probably isn't saying anything we don't already know (given I don't know which post of his has been picked up). We only have to watch the Beeb, even the Scotland version, to know that it is biased in favour of UK political parties to the detriment of anything happening outside the London/South East bubble.

[The Mantis]

 

Bateman on the BBC

 

Luckily I have bookmarked both  Bateman's blogs . http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/. and http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/.. because I'm not about to to pay to read the Herald or any other "news"paper.....and have used up my free allowance on Herald "Scotland"  for the moment. But, to be fair, he probably isn't saying anything we don't already know (given I don't know which post of his has been picked up). We only have to watch the Beeb, even the Scotland version, to know that it is biased in favour of UK political parties to the detriment of anything happening outside the London/South East bubble.

 

I had to get a bus into town today so I read it on my mobile. I've used up my free allowance on my computer and iPad 

I used to buy the paper version of The Herald till a couple of months ago, although my reasons for stopping it weren't political.

My reasons for stopping The Scotsman several years earlier were as a result of Andrew Neil using it as a personal soapbox to bash the teachers and the Nats.

 

However even though you can't get the article you should read the comments below it.

[Oddquine]

 

 

Bateman on the BBC

 

Luckily I have bookmarked both  Bateman's blogs . http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/. and http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/.. because I'm not about to to pay to read the Herald or any other "news"paper.....and have used up my free allowance on Herald "Scotland"  for the moment. But, to be fair, he probably isn't saying anything we don't already know (given I don't know which post of his has been picked up). We only have to watch the Beeb, even the Scotland version, to know that it is biased in favour of UK political parties to the detriment of anything happening outside the London/South East bubble.

 

I had to get a bus into town today so I read it on my mobile. I've used up my free allowance on my computer and iPad 

I used to buy the paper version of The Herald till a couple of months ago, although my reasons for stopping it weren't political.

My reasons for stopping The Scotsman several years earlier were as a result of Andrew Neil using it as a personal soapbox to bash the teachers and the Nats.

 

However even though you can't get the article you should read the comments below it.

 

Just have......must say that 95% of the time the comments are a lot more worth reading than the original article (which depends. of course, if comments are allowed at all)  I have a desktop, a laptop and a tablet.....but unfortunately as I don't go anywhere much.......I am nearly  always online through my home wifi. connection..Must see how evading the cookies works next time I'm down the road on someone else's connection.

 

I'm not holding my breath in the hope of media even-handedness,  having lived and worked through the negativity and scaremongering of the 1979 and the 1997 referenda....but maybe this time we will get an open, fair and honest debate.  (and pigs are flying past my window as I write this)

 

Have to say that John McIntyre OBE Woking rips my knitting and more on a lot of media fora. The man's a twonk.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Oddquine

[Oddquine]

When is somebody going to euthanase the Daily Mail?   It is Fox News in print! Their latest load of crap.......

 

.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446636/Scotland-likely-suffer-catastrophic-terror-attack-achieves-independence.html

 

Scotland 'more likely to suffer catastrophic terror attack if it achieves independence'

• Independent Scotland would be more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, a new report will claim this week
• Attacks could shut down water, gas and electricity supplies across country
• Next year, four million Scots will vote in independence referendum
• SNP's plans are a 'dagger poised at the heart of Scotland's industrial infrastructure', says Defence Secretary Philip Hammond

 

Britain’s top defence officials have produced a damning 86-page assessment of the impact that separation would have on Scotland’s security, which warns of the terrifying threat to the everyday lives of Scots.  

The devastating dossier will show that the tiny defence budget proposed by the SNP could heighten the risk of a terror attack which could close down the water, gas or electricity supplies to every home and business in the country.  etc etc etc ad nauseam.

 

Rational?  Yeah, right! Let's be honest.he's not talking about Scotland's security at all.....but that of the rUK. They are sh1t scared of terrorists gettiing into the rest of the British Isles via Scotland.  Did they ever worry about that when the Republic of Ireland got Independence.....oops......no they didn't,...... because the terrorists were Irish grown....the UK hadn't made so many enemies all over the Muslim world that that a few Irish bombs  were considered a real problem necessitating Terrorism Acts et al..  Now maybe I'm daft, but given we already pay around £175 million into the UK to pay for a facility which didn't mange to stop the 7/7 bombers, and now seems to spend its time arresting and holding onto lots of people without actually taking them to trial, and crows that they have "foiled" plots which the cynical may well think only existed in their imagination.......how could we make a worse job.......if we spent the same amount on our own set-up?

 

Let's be honest.Scotland isn't going to make the enemies the UK has succeeded in doing...because we won't be trying to punch above our weight. We're not going to be clutching the coat-tails of the US of A waving pound notes as they increase the profits of armaments and oil companies to increase sales/acquisitions and thus their tax input to the benefit of the USA. If we spend the same £175 million come independence as we are paying into the Westminster coffers...we'll be dishing out twice as much as Denmark......which also doesn't irritate the crap out of Muslim countries.

 

As long as our  foreign policy is not  based upon alienating as large a number of people around the world as possible...we're not going to need  expensively funded intelligence services....and frankly, we are not obliged to protect rUK from the consequences of the actions of its Governments if terrorists try to get in via Prestwick rather than Heathrow.......bar do the same checks as Heathrow does now..and £175 million will much more than cover that.

 

Have to say I've just noticed a photo on my FaceBook with a montage of Daily Mail scaremongering headlines.....and the suggestion that  we should  VOTE YES.......IF NOTHING ELSE IT WILL REALLY, REALLY  **** OFF THE DAILY MAIL! 

Edited October 6, 2013 by Oddquine

[+DoofersDad]

David Milliband is trying - maybe you should vote "No" and join him

[Oddquine]

David Milliband is trying - maybe you should vote "No" and join him

 

 

Lol!  No chance!  Funny that the crap the Daily Fail produces with regular monotony is just fine......until it maligns the Millibands' father, though.  Another example of  "one law for us" you think?

[Charles Bannerman]

Denmark......which also doesn't irritate the crap out of Muslim countries.

 

Oh aye? So wot about this then?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20&noredirect=1

 

and this....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/80-arrested-anti-islam-protest-denmark-172249372.html

 

And loads more.

 

Sounds like you've had another "Ireland and Iceland Arc of Prosperity" moment!

Edited October 7, 2013 by Charles Bannerman

[Yngwie]

 

It doesn't take a lot to offend these fundamentalist nutters. 

 

 

Oops, there goes my head.