The Big Scottish Independence Debate

[Yngwie]

True story here, at the weekend I found myself running next to John Swinney MSP in the early stages of the Pitlochry 10k.

 

This wasn't really the time to have a political discussion, so I wasn't able to ask him how he felt about saying in last week's TV debate that it would be foolish to commit now to buy back the Royal Mail without knowing the cost or the circumstances at the time, only for his boss to make that very committment the next day.

 

Anyway, whether or not it was because he spotted the olympic Team GB  sweatband on my wrist, I'll never know, but he made the decision to break away from me and run independently.  He obviously believed that being in a union with me was holding him back, and he would flourish if he could go his own way. On this occasion he was absolutely right and powered off into the distance, leaving me behind.

 

Edit to add : it comes as no surprise that in publicly announcing his time, Swinney has come up with a figure that is somehow better than the official and independently verifiable source. 

Edited September 23, 2013 by Yngwie

[Sneckboy]

If you'd had any MORI energy, you could have looked at him and said, "Hey, YOUGOV" and left him standing and polled away with a surging GALLUP!

Edited September 23, 2013 by Sneckboy

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

I am sure in an independent country a form of the BBC will still exist.

You actually raise another serious questionmark against separation there - which I am sure you will try also to categorise in your so called "Project Fear".

But with less than 9% of the BBC's current licence fee revenue, I would be interested to see what kind of service a Scottish equivalent would be able to provide - even if it were to try to raise a few more quid by imposing lots of adverts on viewers of and listeners to... what?

The BBC is actually an excellent example of one of the fundamental benefits of the Union - economies of scale.

 

 Just home.......never intended to recognise your existence until I had sobered up (had a bottle of red) and became less swearie inclined......but, imo, who gives a toss about a taxpayer paid Scottish equivalent of the Project Fear BBC supporters? Really?   I think that an SBC would be the death of democracy in Scotland just as the BBC has been in the UK!

 

Why would we be even wanting to pay for a  state subsidised entity which is little more than a brainwashing mouthpiece for the state....whether that is for the UK state or the possible Scottish one.(and one which, in print produces worse grammar and spelling that I do pretty smashed.)   Having spent a lot of time listening to BBC radio, perusing BBC online input ,BBC blogs, etc since independence was mooted.....few of which are open to comment in Scotland, btw....I'm not prepared to have the likes of you in a Scottish BC brainwashing my children/grand children etc in an independent Scotland as the media is currently doing UK  Wide.

 

Project Fear is not a new thing.......it is what all Governments have always used to combat possibilities they don't want..or alternatively to ramp up possibilities they are gagging to accomplish.  Project Fear brought us Afghanistan and Iraq, Trident, the terrorism acts here and the Patriot acts in the US  ..and to an extent, even the economic meltdown.because of the fear that we would be left behind profit-wise as the USA reduced financial controls of banks to let them rip the population from bahookey to breakfast time..so we followed suit. 

 

The current Project Fear version is in the "possibilities they don't want" stable...because they can't..and you know they can't come up with any real reason NOT  to end the Union.....bar  it will be really bad for the UK.or what will be left of it. So far as I am  aware coming out of the Union would reduce the UK influence in the world...(hidden in the weasel words  "no Scottish input in international entities"...as if there had ever been any in the past 300 or so years ), To me, Project Fear confirms the utter childishness of what will be left of the UK epitomised by their never-ending cry of "you're not going to be able to do that"...re currency, the EU, the UN, NATO, pensions, welfare, oil, etc.as if the UK/rUK was god.and lies and misrepresentation were facts.  .

 

Explain to me  why we would WANT, in an Independent Scotland to pay tax, which is what the licence fee is, to set up a government  mouthpiece to shaft the people who pay for it as is happening in the UK at the moment?

 

So is that it? Is that what I've been waiting all weekend for in fear and trepidation? The latest monologue from Citizen McSmith!

[The Mantis]

True story here, at the weekend I found myself running next to John Swinney MSP in the early stages of the Pitlochry 10k.

 

This wasn't really the time to have a political discussion, so I wasn't able to ask him how he felt about saying in last week's TV debate that it would be foolish to commit now to buy back the Royal Mail without knowing the cost or the circumstances at the time, only for his boss to make that very committment the next day.

 

Anyway, whether or not it was because he spotted the olympic Team GB  sweatband on my wrist, I'll never know, but he made the decision to break away from me and run independently.  He obviously believed that being in a union with me was holding him back, and he would flourish if he could go his own way. On this occasion he was absolutely right and powered off into the distance, leaving me behind.

 

Edit to add : it comes as no surprise that in publicly announcing his time, Swinney has come up with a figure that is somehow better than the official and independently verifiable source. 

Great stuff (before you edited some of it out )

[PullMyFinger]

 

 

 

Explain to me  why we would WANT, in an Independent Scotland to pay tax, which is what the licence fee is, to set up a government  mouthpiece to shaft the people who pay for it as is happening in the UK at the moment?

 

So is that it? Is that what I've been waiting all weekend for in fear and trepidation? The latest monologue from Citizen McSmith!

 

 

Answer the question Chuck.

[Yngwie]

So do the Yessers feel that the BBC is against their cause? Can't say I've ever noticed it myself, but then again I couldn't see anything wrong with that leaflet the Ellon pupils produced.

 

I've never thought of the BBC as a goverment mouthpiece, I think they try to be impartial but have a deep rooted culture of "intellectual lefty-ism" of the sort you get from reading the Guardian too much.

[Joe DiMaggio]

 

I am sure in an independent country a form of the BBC will still exist.

You actually raise another serious questionmark against separation there - which I am sure you will try also to categorise in your so called "Project Fear".

But with less than 9% of the BBC's current licence fee revenue, I would be interested to see what kind of service a Scottish equivalent would be able to provide - even if it were to try to raise a few more quid by imposing lots of adverts on viewers of and listeners to... what?

The BBC is actually an excellent example of one of the fundamental benefits of the Union - economies of scale.

 

Charles Bannerman is right here about scale and TV service.

 

Firstly looking at scale Scotland would be 116th in the world out of 242 independent countries based on population. But to go with Charles constant assumptions let's just pretend we would not be in the top half of countries in terms of population and say we would be one of the smallest. We don't need to twist figures here, let's just make it up and say we are a small county, it sounds scarier that way.

 

Let's also forget that we have more resources and potential revenue streams than many other countries. If we take that away it is also scarier.

 

Let's also forget that measuring GDP per head of population Scotland would be the 8th wealthiest country in the world, with the UK 17th.

 

It is also beneficial if we don't look at the most prosperous nations of 2012 or the UN human development index which measures standards of living as there are too many small countries on those lists. Let's just pretend they don't exist.

 

As for the TV service he is right here. All the countries, in terms of population, from 161st in the world downwards do not get TV; it is actually banned by the UN. They are only allowed cardboard boxes in their houses where they can pretend they are watching TV.

 

I have actually been to Norway, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Luxemburg and I can confirm that on every channel there is just static. It is also heavily biased static compared to the impartial TV we receive here.

 

Rule Britannia...Scotland doesn't exist.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Joe DiMaggio

[Oddquine]

 

 

 

I am sure in an independent country a form of the BBC will still exist.

You actually raise another serious questionmark against separation there - which I am sure you will try also to categorise in your so called "Project Fear".

But with less than 9% of the BBC's current licence fee revenue, I would be interested to see what kind of service a Scottish equivalent would be able to provide - even if it were to try to raise a few more quid by imposing lots of adverts on viewers of and listeners to... what?

The BBC is actually an excellent example of one of the fundamental benefits of the Union - economies of scale.

 

 Just home.......never intended to recognise your existence until I had sobered up (had a bottle of red) and became less swearie inclined......but, imo, who gives a toss about a taxpayer paid Scottish equivalent of the Project Fear BBC supporters? Really?   I think that an SBC would be the death of democracy in Scotland just as the BBC has been in the UK!

 

Why would we be even wanting to pay for a  state subsidised entity which is little more than a brainwashing mouthpiece for the state....whether that is for the UK state or the possible Scottish one.(and one which, in print produces worse grammar and spelling that I do pretty smashed.)   Having spent a lot of time listening to BBC radio, perusing BBC online input ,BBC blogs, etc since independence was mooted.....few of which are open to comment in Scotland, btw....I'm not prepared to have the likes of you in a Scottish BC brainwashing my children/grand children etc in an independent Scotland as the media is currently doing UK  Wide.

 

Project Fear is not a new thing.......it is what all Governments have always used to combat possibilities they don't want..or alternatively to ramp up possibilities they are gagging to accomplish.  Project Fear brought us Afghanistan and Iraq, Trident, the terrorism acts here and the Patriot acts in the US  ..and to an extent, even the economic meltdown.because of the fear that we would be left behind profit-wise as the USA reduced financial controls of banks to let them rip the population from bahookey to breakfast time..so we followed suit. 

 

The current Project Fear version is in the "possibilities they don't want" stable...because they can't..and you know they can't come up with any real reason NOT  to end the Union.....bar  it will be really bad for the UK.or what will be left of it. So far as I am  aware coming out of the Union would reduce the UK influence in the world...(hidden in the weasel words  "no Scottish input in international entities"...as if there had ever been any in the past 300 or so years ), To me, Project Fear confirms the utter childishness of what will be left of the UK epitomised by their never-ending cry of "you're not going to be able to do that"...re currency, the EU, the UN, NATO, pensions, welfare, oil, etc.as if the UK/rUK was god.and lies and misrepresentation were facts.  .

 

Explain to me  why we would WANT, in an Independent Scotland to pay tax, which is what the licence fee is, to set up a government  mouthpiece to shaft the people who pay for it as is happening in the UK at the moment?

 

So is that it? Is that what I've been waiting all weekend for in fear and trepidation? The latest monologue from Citizen McSmith!

 

Erm.no...I will at some stage talk about your interpretation of the Aberdeenshire  schools referendum as regarding its extrapolation into the young being against independence, which is what I  said.   My response above had nothing to do with that ...just that I got home had a browse in various fora, because I'd not had internet access since I left home and spotted your reference to the Scottish arm of the (Biased) British Broadcasting Corporation.   Given you wrote that over the weekend after I left home....why fear and trepidation over that post?  Btw...I am Scottish citizen Mc(another non-clan name very loosely connected to the MacGregors).........though I do have Smiths (sans the Mc) in my ancestry.  I do realise you have a job to maintain within the "British" media establishment ......but have you NO response to my opinions which are a result of seeing the British establishment at work?

[Charles Bannerman]

Dearie me! This is getting more and more like Follow Follow or maybe more likely Celtic Talk with all this Establishment victimisation that's clearly going on!!

If you're talking about what might be taken for a question in the last two lines of post #174, well there's no answer to that since it's not possible to respond to the delusional. It would be easier to explain the price of pirate hats in Never Never Land!

Edited September 23, 2013 by Charles Bannerman

[Oddquine]

Dearie me! This is getting more and more like Follow Follow or maybe more specifically Celtic Talk with all this Establishment victimisation that's clearly going on!!

If you're talking about what looks like a question in the last two lines of post #174, well there's no answer to that since it's not possible to respond to the delusional. It would be easier to explain the price of pirate hats in Never Never Land!

Funnily enough...people who think the UK establishment is not working encompasses more than just Scotland.....but Scotland is best placed to do something about it for ourselves...........and if we do sensible and get out of the Union, it may encourage those outside the favoured bubble of London and the Home Counties to demand their own voice in their own lives....which can't be bad for democracy.

 

I assume you have been either googling me to come up with the Celtic link.or checking out my posts on here..(is that sad or what in either case)......so if you don't already know I like every pro-independence facebook page,( including the ICT one) ,..and that doesn't make me Labour, English. a New Scot or any other damn thing but me......any other assumption says more about your attitude than it does about mine! I have made no secret on here of the fact that, over my 65 years of life, I have acquired  a hierarchy of football teams with Celtic now coming behind ICT in my SPL favourites....because  I have managed to grow up and change my affiliations to reflect my changing opinions. I have hierarchies of support in Highland League and English Premiership as well, which are not the same as when I was in school, surprisingly enough. Do you think the same about everything you were convinced about when you were fifteen? 

 

I kinda thought that with my last two lines in post #174...I was offering you an opportunity to defend your corner. It seems, going by your response to which I currently respond, you are unable to come up with any reason as to why an Independent Scotland should pay a licence fee to support a Government mouthpiece with journalists like you employed.

[+DoofersDad]

The BBC may have its faults and in an independent Scotland an SBC may also have its faults.  But within any democratic nation I live I would always want a state broadcaster with at least some accountablity to the taxpayer.  The alternative is  either to have the media controlled by right wing foreigners with their own agenda which will have far more to do with making shed loads of money than reporting relatively objectively on the issues that are important to the nation.  As it happens, in the UK we are exceptionally fortunate to have the BBC with the wide array of high quality programmes they produce.

 

The position of state broadcasting in an independent Scotland is one of those issues where voters really should be able to have some clear information before making our minds up.  A lack of a state broadcaster in an independent Scotland would be a very strong reason for voting "no" in my opinion. 

[Oddquine]

The BBC may have its faults and in an independent Scotland an SBC may also have its faults.  But within any democratic nation I live I would always want a state broadcaster with at least some accountablity to the taxpayer.  The alternative is  either to have the media controlled by right wing foreigners with their own agenda which will have far more to do with making shed loads of money than reporting relatively objectively on the issues that are important to the nation.  As it happens, in the UK we are exceptionally fortunate to have the BBC with the wide array of high quality programmes they produce.

 

The position of state broadcasting in an independent Scotland is one of those issues where voters really should be able to have some clear information before making our minds up.  A lack of a state broadcaster in an independent Scotland would be a very strong reason for voting "no" in my opinion. 

  Can't say I really disagree with any of that...however, imo, the UK Governments of whichever colour seem singularly incapable of producing a law, contract, charter or any other flaming thing without leaving enormous loopholes through which to drive a coach and horses.  The one thing we have become better at in the UK over the years, which was when the BBC started to lose their impartiality and become more entwined in supporting Government brain farts, has been the ability, even the obsession,  to interpret every letter of the badly written law and ignore the original intention of it.  I'd hazard a guess that the Government, when it drew up the BBC charter, didn't mean that the only time it was obliged to be impartial was from the time an election/referendum had been called and at any other time, they were at liberty to hit the typewriters and just let their bellies rumble.  The BBC Charter is as wooly as  the likes of tax law which allows tax avoidance/evasion, Benefit law which allows punters to take the proverbial..and the rules which allowed the Banks to run riot.

 

I'd have no problem with an SBC which was properly set up and made genuinely accountable for its actions or inactions.....otherwise...why should we pay for a state broadcaster at liberty, with no comeback, to lie to us?

[Alex MacLeod]

 

Brilliant!

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/news/release.asp?newsID=3266

To summarise the link, a poll in schools in Aberdeenshire has produced 8718 votes (75.4%) for NO and an embarrassing 2847 (24.6%) for yes.

This isn't simply a case of this outcome just squeaking it. This is a massive NO majority - and using a very large satatistical sample compared with your average opinion poll. It is especially embarrassing for Salmond, coming as it does right in the back yard of the said MSP for Aberdeenshire East!!

It is very interesting from one or two points of view. But principally, speaking here is the younger generation which current voters would leave holding the baby in later years in the event of a yes vote. This of course is also the generation which will become the decision makers and those responsible for running things when the oil starts to run out. You hear a load of selfrighteous nonsense from the separatists about "campaigning for the future of our children and grandchildren". Well it looks to me as if the said children and grandchildren are telling them - by a majority of more than three to one here - "Look we are quite happy as we are. Go away Alex and leave us alone!"

Hopefully this should also be a strong message to possible yes voters not to try to impose a scenario which they clearly don't want on the generations which would have to live with its consequences.

This poll also shows that Salmond's attempted flanker of enfranchising 16 and 17 year olds has backfired spectacularly! It seems to me that the SNP maybe thought/ hoped cynically that younger voters might not have the maturity to weigh up the arguments and come to an informed decision so might well base their decision on something less cerebral like watching Braveheart. This is another typical example of SNP "wish list politics". Because instead, recent polling seems to suggest that it is male voters from west central Scotland who are perhaps being influenced in this manner. Meanwhile the youth of Scotland have shown that they are not the soft touch the separatists expected, but instead are showing a commendable degree of judgement here and are telling the SNP not to mess with their future.

 

Good bit of spin Charles but I dont think so considering less than half of those who voted would be eligible to vote in referendum. Would be interesting to see the breakdown of 16 and 17 year olds.

[Oddquine]

 

 

Brilliant!

http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/news/release.asp?newsID=3266

To summarise the link, a poll in schools in Aberdeenshire has produced 8718 votes (75.4%) for NO and an embarrassing 2847 (24.6%) for yes.

This isn't simply a case of this outcome just squeaking it. This is a massive NO majority - and using a very large satatistical sample compared with your average opinion poll. It is especially embarrassing for Salmond, coming as it does right in the back yard of the said MSP for Aberdeenshire East!!

It is very interesting from one or two points of view. But principally, speaking here is the younger generation which current voters would leave holding the baby in later years in the event of a yes vote. This of course is also the generation which will become the decision makers and those responsible for running things when the oil starts to run out. You hear a load of selfrighteous nonsense from the separatists about "campaigning for the future of our children and grandchildren". Well it looks to me as if the said children and grandchildren are telling them - by a majority of more than three to one here - "Look we are quite happy as we are. Go away Alex and leave us alone!"

Hopefully this should also be a strong message to possible yes voters not to try to impose a scenario which they clearly don't want on the generations which would have to live with its consequences.

This poll also shows that Salmond's attempted flanker of enfranchising 16 and 17 year olds has backfired spectacularly! It seems to me that the SNP maybe thought/ hoped cynically that younger voters might not have the maturity to weigh up the arguments and come to an informed decision so might well base their decision on something less cerebral like watching Braveheart. This is another typical example of SNP "wish list politics". Because instead, recent polling seems to suggest that it is male voters from west central Scotland who are perhaps being influenced in this manner. Meanwhile the youth of Scotland have shown that they are not the soft touch the separatists expected, but instead are showing a commendable degree of judgement here and are telling the SNP not to mess with their future.

 

Good bit of spin Charles but I dont think so considering less than half of those who voted would be eligible to vote in referendum. Would be interesting to see the breakdown of 16 and 17 year olds.

 

If we are going to extrapolate votes on Independence undertaken a year ahead and with a very limited demography, to pretend they do anything other than make a pointless point .....I offer the vote taken on 17th September by NewsNight (which almost managed to produce an unbiased debate without too much interjection by the BBC "personality" chairing it). It took place on the Scottish Borders, with an "undecided" audience...and the result was 62% to 38% in favour of Independence. 

 

So using the rhetoric of the Nay-sayers on here......Brilliant!  .   

 

Have to say a demography which consists of about half of those who voted being under voting age (if all S4, S5 and S6 pupils actually voted in every school). and no indication as  to the  make up of the vote  re age/class groups, doesn't fill me with trepidation in the same way it fills CB and Fool Physio with elation!  But then I suppose they do have to have some straw at which to clutch.  I  cringed when I read in an online " paper" of 11,000 pupils who will be eligible to vote in the referendum 9,000 intend to vote 'no'. given at least  5500 of the 11000 are in S1,S2 and S3.....so way too young...unless kept back a lot,... to be voting in 2014 at all.

 

Bear in mind, too, they were the same schools (though I don't know if all of them were involved at that time)  which voted for AV and narrowly voted for the SNP in a similar exercise in 2011. ..so not your typical voters.are they?.   I rather think, if I had been presented with that conglomeration of lies, negativity and misrepresentation in the Ellon leaflet......before I had made my own mind up about anything regarding politics......which in my case was around what is now S5... I'd have voted "no"..which does rather illustrate why the Bitter Together camp are doing Project Fear rather than Project Hope...much easier  to scare people into doing what you want, as illustrated by the crap produced in the run-up to the Iraq War..than offer hope when we already know that hope of anything different in the UK bar austerity and cuts  is not on offer for the foreseeable future..whoever gets in.

[Alex MacLeod]

So do the Yessers feel that the BBC is against their cause? Can't say I've ever noticed it myself, but then again I couldn't see anything wrong with that leaflet the Ellon pupils produced.

 

I've never thought of the BBC as a goverment mouthpiece, I think they try to be impartial but have a deep rooted culture of "intellectual lefty-ism" of the sort you get from reading the Guardian too much.

I wouldnt know. I very rarely watch the BBC. It makes me angry to see the amount they spend on programmes produced by foriegn companies. Programmes that this very institution were once the envy of the world for. Now all they churn out in their own name is cheap to make television and pay out sickening amounts of money to the people who front it.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Alex MacLeod

[dougiedanger]

One sad thing is that in an independent Scotland, there is no way CB would be taking to the airwaves, given his strong and principled stance against the "separatists".

[The Mantis]

So do the Yessers feel that the BBC is against their cause?  

First answer: the 'National' BBC appears to be indifferent to anything outside of London (or is it Manchester these days, not sure which bits were moved) so I wouldn't say it was biased. That doesn't mean we get value for money, however. I have plenty of issues in addition to those I already mentioned in post 167:

They don't understand that Scotland is a country, not a county, and that distorted triangular-shaped weather map doesn't help. In a generation hardly anybody will know the true shape of Great Britain.

I would question whether a public service broadcaster should be mixing it with the likes of Sky. They've just invested £780m to cover the Premierleague for the next 3 years. I can't find how much they're spending on the SPFL but I'd be surprised if its anything like the same per capita, I hardly ever miss MOTD but its not as if the Premierleague needs the money.

So do the Yessers feel that the BBC is against their cause? Can't say I've ever noticed it myself

 

Really? You need to get out less!

Second answer: BBC Scotland bias.

I started to think it was strange about a year ago that nearly every night, Ms Bird, Magnusson or Shearer introduced the lead story on Reporting Scotland with the words 'a warning tonight that under Independence, the weather could get worse' or similar.

Usually it was a non- story that didn't fit the sensationalist headline, something that the Herald and Scotsman are very good at, but you'd expect better from the BBC.

Btw I'm aware that Reporting Scotland led with the pro-Indy story about pensions this week, but that came as a surprise. More typical was the revelation about the £100 fee for writing a YES article the other week, when the much larger (ignored) story was the hacking of YES emails which brought the £100 fee to light.

This relentless negativity about YES got me searching online. It seems there's a very cosy relationship between BBC Scotland and the Labour Party (not the Tories or the libdems). I'm on a very slow connection in the Hebrides at the moment so I won't be providing links but there's plenty material out there. Just searching 'bbc warning independence' brings up loads.

When you see how much support there is online for independence compared to the mainstream Scottish media you start to wonder: why did the SNP win a majority at the last election when the polls said labour would slaughter them? Are polls just propaganda?

[Joe DiMaggio]

One sad thing is that in an independent Scotland, there is no way CB would be taking to the airwaves, given his strong and principled stance against the "separatists".

 

The Yes vote will now surge in the Inverness area with that news!

[Yngwie]

[reasoned comment]

 

I wouldn't argue at all with that, but I would just say that IMO the BBC news is negative about pretty much everything, it seems to be a rule with their editors. To give a non-political example, a few weeks ago they announced with an air of doom and gloom that "Only 10% of British adults have taken up sport as a result of the London Olympics".  Let's turn that around. 4 millions adults have taken up sport as a result of the Olympics. Phenomenal!

 

The typical BBC news headline is "EVERYTHING IS JUST RUBBISH.........according to a new report published today."

 

Now, had that report said the exact opposite, it probably wouldn't get a mention at all, but if it did, the story would be "Critics have poured scorn on a report which says everything is just great!"

[The Mantis]

[reasoned comment]

 

I wouldn't argue at all with that, but I would just say that IMO the BBC news is negative about pretty much everything, it seems to be a rule with their editors. To give a non-political example, a few weeks ago they announced with an air of doom and gloom that "Only 10% of British adults have taken up sport as a result of the London Olympics".  Let's turn that around. 4 millions adults have taken up sport as a result of the Olympics. Phenomenal!

 

The typical BBC news headline is "EVERYTHING IS JUST RUBBISH.........according to a new report published today."

 

Now, had that report said the exact opposite, it probably wouldn't get a mention at all, but if it did, the story would be "Critics have poured scorn on a report which says everything is just great!"

You could be onto something there. However even allowing for my personal bias, I thought that suppressing the hacking of emails story was scandalous - far more sensational, or rubbish as you put it, than the story they used that a YES supporter was commissioned to write a pro- Indy article for £100.

Also, the recent story about the Latvian authority who was quoted as saying that Scotland would need to seek entry to the EU. He said that rUK would need to do likewise, but BBC Scotland never bothered mentioning that.

It was getting so predictable that I would read up on a story during the day, then see what spin BBC Scotland put on it at 6.30.

[Sneckboy]

Very interesting statistic just revealed from the recent census. Obviously a huge sample size with the whole country being asked how 'Scottish' they felt. it's the first time this has been asked.

62% feel 'Scottish only' with only 18% saying they felt both 'Scottish and British'.

 

How this will reflect in next years referendum remains to be seen...as obviously one can feel 'Scottish only' yet not want independence.

But I do feel this revelation from 2011's data will be of more comfort to the YES camp.

[Sneckboy]

Forgot the link

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24282271

[Yngwie]

Very interesting statistic just revealed from the recent census. Obviously a huge sample size with the whole country being asked how 'Scottish' they felt. it's the first time this has been asked.

62% feel 'Scottish only' with only 18% saying they felt both 'Scottish and British'.

 

How this will reflect in next years referendum remains to be seen...as obviously one can feel 'Scottish only' yet not want independence.

But I do feel this revelation from 2011's data will be of more comfort to the YES camp.

 

Possibly, in that those 62% are all very much potential Yes voters. But it will also be of concern to the Yes camp that, so far at least, they only have the support of about half of those people who consider themselves Scottish but not British, their main target market.

 

One thing in their favour is that people currently inclined to vote Yes are unlikely to change their mind, whereas people who are currently unconvinced are still very much open to persuasion.

[Yngwie]

Speaking of unreliable polls, I was at a comedy show last night (Ed Byrne) and he did a bit about independence and took a straw poll of the audience's voting intentions. I was quite surprised that in the SNP stronghold of Perth, it was probably about 75% no. He mentioned that Edinburgh was similar.

 

He's in Inverness in a few days, will that be any different?

[dougiedanger]

What about Dave Cameron sh##ting it from a debate with Salmond?

Nice of him to leave it up to Scots to debate the issues, I trust he and his rotten government will refrain from commenting on this issue in the year to come.