Helping out Hearts

[Govan Jaggie]

When I first herds this I thought it was crazy but I very quickly changed my mind and believe it is a good bit of business from ICT. At least this is voluntary. How much are we FORCED to give Celtic when they played at ICT? This was also the same for Rangers when they existed.

Did the Hearts fans show blind faith for Vlad? Certainly. They were going out of business anyway so anyone with cash was a messiah. Did Hearts cheat by brining in 2 players before the semi? Don't be daft. Should they have had considering they were skint? Certainly not. Was the Wilson ban issue their fault? Who knows, they appear to to have gone on them advice of then SFL. Did they cheat us to win? No, we fecked up against 10 men.

Dragon, you opinion is your opinion and it is great to have a strong mindset. I just look at our club and if the gesture makes us a penny extra I am happy.

[BornCaley]

I had great night out last night at a Fringe show! In my company was a member of the 1874 Fighting Fund committe! He had some very interesting things to say about what they are about and what the monies raised go to. Not a single penny is handed to Hearts FC but is used for repairs such like around Tynie thus allowing Hearts monies to spend elsewhere.

 

I did ask him about the "cheating" mentioned by Dougal er I mean Dragan and like me thought this was all sorted at the time. He had no idea like me about Ngoo..So maybe someone can tell me what cheating was alleged by bringing in Ngoo?

[Caleyjag157]

The same cheating that Rangers were accused of - bringing in players they couldn't affort.

Hearts were unable to pay the wages of the players they already had when they signed Ngoo on loan.

[Alex MacLeod]

The same cheating that Rangers were accused of - bringing in players they couldn't affort.

Hearts were unable to pay the wages of the players they already had when they signed Ngoo on loan.

Did Hearts have to pay anything or did Liverpool loan him for free?

[Yngwie]

Liverpool are a creditor to the tune of £50,000, so it looks like Hearts were supposed to pay for borrowing the players but didn't.

[SMEE]

I dont see why a Club and their loyal fans should face losing their beloved club, coz they were mismanaged for years by a complete NUTCASE!

At the same time, make no mistake about it....the no 1 aim of this move, is designed to boost the ICT coffers.

[BornCaley]

I wouldnt have thought taking a player on loan but not having the coffers to pay his wages/fees is cheating! just stupidity.

[Caleyjag157]

I wouldnt have thought taking a player on loan but not having the coffers to pay his wages/fees is cheating! just stupidity.

What happened to the big issue of 'sporting integrity' which was all we heard about last year when it was Rangers that were struggling and were being accused of cheating for having players they supposedly couldn't afford. When it comes to Hearts and Dunfermline its ok we can sympathise and help them out.

[Yngwie]

I wouldnt have thought taking a player on loan but not having the coffers to pay his wages/fees is cheating! just stupidity.

 

Well, it's like going into a restaurant and eating a meal knowing that you don't have any money to pay for it.

[Caleyjag157]

I dont see why a Club and their loyal fans should face losing their beloved club, coz they were mismanaged for years by a complete NUTCASE!

At the same time, make no mistake about it....the no 1 aim of this move, is designed to boost the ICT coffers.

Many fans on this board were and still are desperate for Rangers to be finished of last year. Again their downfall was down to one nutcase So what's the difference? I'm just curious as a Caley fan who was brought up in a Rangers supporting family why the big difference in attitudes.

Is it down to jelousy, is it because teams couldnt beat them on the park, maybe thought if they could get rid of them they would have a chance at winning something??

[draganict]

 

I wouldnt have thought taking a player on loan but not having the coffers to pay his wages/fees is cheating! just stupidity.

 

Well, it's like going into a restaurant and eating a meal knowing that you don't have any money to pay for it. Well said Yngwie

 

Superb! Delighted to hear that some people can see through the fraud and deceit

Edited August 26, 2013 by draganict

[draganict]

 

I dont see why a Club and their loyal fans should face losing their beloved club, coz they were mismanaged for years by a complete NUTCASE!

At the same time, make no mistake about it....the no 1 aim of this move, is designed to boost the ICT coffers.

Many fans on this board were and still are desperate for Rangers to be finished of last year. Again their downfall was down to one nutcase So what's the difference? I'm just curious as a Caley fan who was brought up in a Rangers supporting family why the big difference in attitudes.

Is it down to jelousy, is it because teams couldnt beat them on the park, maybe thought if they could get rid of them they would have a chance at winning something??

 

Absolutely

[draganict]

 

 

Dragan, your anger is not misplaced. Nobody would convince you of otherwise. But who is at fault, the supporters? I don't believe so. They were led by a maniac, had no say, and yes, blindly followed their team. Should they have protested and forced the issue? Yes, I think so. But they are in the infancy, caught up by the new fad of wreckless owners. Fans will become savvy and less naive, but only because of what has happened to Rangers, Hearts, etc. we should be raging against Doncaster and Topping and Regan, they are supposed to enforce the by-laws. They are the enemy, not a madman, for his very definition excludes that, and not the people who trusted someone in good faith. Hindsight is. 20/20.

Hearts fans positively embraced the madman and enjoyed the fruits of his actions.

 

They all knew his actions were detrimental whist creaming themselves with the artificial glory that came along with it.

 

I can assure you that I am not angry. I do not get angry about such trivial issues like bankrupt clubs. I am involved in business every day of my working life and the debt and cheating of Hearts is not a priority but I  have clear views on the honesty and integrity of the way clubs are operated.  My interest is i the long term future of MY club.

 

For example I  have been studying the accounts of ICT over the past few weeks and I intend to make comment on them soon.

 

Q. DONATIONS TO THE JAMBOS. - A. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE

 

CALEY TILL I DIE!!!!!

 

 

And making money from opposition fans is one way to securing a long term future.

 

I look forward to hearing your views regarding the ICT accounts.

 

Our accounts are strong though there is a slightly deteriorating trend for about 4 years up until 2012. Nothing to worry about though as success comes with a cost.

 

I am keen to explore possibilities of assisting our club though and I  have put our several enquiries to business contacts for sponsorship etc. Every penny helps.

 

ICT - exemplary in financial governance

Jambos - Nothing short of a disgrace and yes that does include a lot of their fans

Edited August 26, 2013 by draganict

[draganict]

 

 

Dragan, you have posted elsewhere that fans should be doing more to take control of their clubs and having a say in how they are run....this seems to be in stark contrast to your comments and views on this thread.

 

ICT have protected their own financial position by ring-fencing the income from the average visiting Hearts support and are making a donation to a fans group who are helping to keep their club operating while another fans driven organisation attempts to find a way for their club to continue.

 

Nothing at all in any of that is damaging ICT....quite the opposite.  There's also no hint of supporting those responsible for Hearts getting into the position they have, nor is it supporting a return to a regime who are likely to run the club in similar fashion in the future (should they survive)....in fact, it's not supporting any of the groups looking to make a bid to take over the club.

 

Not only is your economic evaluation of the offer clearly wrong, your moral evaluation also seems to suffering somewhat as well.

Your post lacks cohesion and clarity. What are you trying to say? No matter how much you bleat my opinion will not change.

 

We have great board who apply a great deal of dilligence to the governance of our team.

 

Our role should not be to help finance Heart's successes of the past few years. It is none of our business. Have you conducted due dilligence on this organisation that you are proposing to finance. Do you even know who they are?

 

You clearly have not got any background in business or economics.

 

 

1.  The offer protects ICT's financial position as income from the average visiting club is ring-fenced.  i.e. no split of income will be offered from the first 650 tickets.

2.  The club will benefit to the tune of £15 for every additional (full paying) Hearts fan that attends as a result of the offer.

3.  Your claims that this somehow supports a corrupt regime are unfounded.

4.  Yes, as a matter of fact I did do some due diligence on the 1874 Fighting Fund...maybe you should too before digging yourself a deeper hole.

5.  Qualified as a Financial Consultant aged 18, held position as Senior Compliance Auditor, Senior Risk Management Officer, Head Analyst (Change Management), Project Manager (Change Management)...all for a major banking group.  Does that count as having a sufficient background in business or economics to allow me to comment on this subject?

 

All for a major banking group? Check you out! All for a major banking group?

 

That instills trust in us all oh wise one. All for a major banking group? I would be keeping that to myself sonny after the recent performance of MAJOR BANKING GROUPS. You could be unemployable with a CV like that my boy. Especially if you are now backing UKIOS Bank Group.

 

Sorry in answer to question number 5 you are probably the last person I would ask on this subject.

 

ALL FOR A MAJOR BANKING GROUP. Who the feck do you think you are? 

 

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

FRED THE SHRED 

WORKS FOR THE BANK

 

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

TRUST MEEEEEEE

I WORK FOR THE BANK

 

GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!

Edited August 26, 2013 by draganict

[Scarlet Pimple]

If we want ICT to progress then we have to let the past slide away into obscurity and concentrate on the future.

 

In case any of you younger element haven't noticed, life is short.

 

The ICT Management is making both a generous, and a calculated business, gesture which is fine by me.

Remember .."There but for the grace of God go I."

 

Hearts are an integral part of Scottish Football and,  frankly, the demise and/or near death of so many former  prominent teams is something we should  be scared of ...and a sad reflection of the current state of football in Scotland . If it keeps on like this how many decent team will there be left against whom we can strut our brilliant stuff ?

 

This is a positive gesture by ICT which should be applauded and supported. It's smart, shrewd and generous and will make friends not enemies who will remember us when we have won the league.

 

Be nice to people on the way up because you may need them on the way down. If you love  football then we should welcome the hearts fans with open arms and wish them well under any future "new" management.

[draganict]

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

 

(give Hearts a hand-out and they will buy or loan players. Teach them not to over-spend and they will have a happy future)

 

 

 

but if you donate a fiver you can help fix the plumbing and paint the stands in Vlad's stadium which he may still flog.

 

OH YES he still owns it !!!!

(quote from a Jambo talking to an inebriated ICT FAN - "honest Vlad isn't getting the money from donations we are going to repair the ground which is not ours - wink wink - fancy another pint buddy)

[Scarlet Pimple]

The whole point is that ICT will benefit financially, not make a loss.

 

They are ahead--right? .......................Hullo!!!!!

 

And make friends of the fans who are hardly to blame for the schemzozzle dumped upon them by that  European lad.

 

Vlad had an idea that turned out to be really bad

Spend money that he didnae have but thought he had

At the end of the day he was revealed as  small and sad,

Back up a Tad,.........Vlad was Mad

And we hope that's the end of that tune, E'Gad.

[Rival]

They deserve it. Hearts fans refused to believe they were cheating. And all they can say now is 'Romanov is a dick'. They loved him while they were winning.

[davie]

 

 

 

Dragan, you have posted elsewhere that fans should be doing more to take control of their clubs and having a say in how they are run....this seems to be in stark contrast to your comments and views on this thread.

 

ICT have protected their own financial position by ring-fencing the income from the average visiting Hearts support and are making a donation to a fans group who are helping to keep their club operating while another fans driven organisation attempts to find a way for their club to continue.

 

Nothing at all in any of that is damaging ICT....quite the opposite.  There's also no hint of supporting those responsible for Hearts getting into the position they have, nor is it supporting a return to a regime who are likely to run the club in similar fashion in the future (should they survive)....in fact, it's not supporting any of the groups looking to make a bid to take over the club.

 

Not only is your economic evaluation of the offer clearly wrong, your moral evaluation also seems to suffering somewhat as well.

Your post lacks cohesion and clarity. What are you trying to say? No matter how much you bleat my opinion will not change.

 

We have great board who apply a great deal of dilligence to the governance of our team.

 

Our role should not be to help finance Heart's successes of the past few years. It is none of our business. Have you conducted due dilligence on this organisation that you are proposing to finance. Do you even know who they are?

 

You clearly have not got any background in business or economics.

 

 

1.  The offer protects ICT's financial position as income from the average visiting club is ring-fenced.  i.e. no split of income will be offered from the first 650 tickets.

2.  The club will benefit to the tune of £15 for every additional (full paying) Hearts fan that attends as a result of the offer.

3.  Your claims that this somehow supports a corrupt regime are unfounded.

4.  Yes, as a matter of fact I did do some due diligence on the 1874 Fighting Fund...maybe you should too before digging yourself a deeper hole.

5.  Qualified as a Financial Consultant aged 18, held position as Senior Compliance Auditor, Senior Risk Management Officer, Head Analyst (Change Management), Project Manager (Change Management)...all for a major banking group.  Does that count as having a sufficient background in business or economics to allow me to comment on this subject?

 

All for a major banking group? Check you out! All for a major banking group?

 

That instills trust in us all oh wise one. All for a major banking group? I would be keeping that to myself sonny after the recent performance of MAJOR BANKING GROUPS. You could be unemployable with a CV like that my boy. Especially if you are now backing UKIOS Bank Group.

 

Sorry in answer to question number 5 you are probably the last person I would ask on this subject.

 

ALL FOR A MAJOR BANKING GROUP. Who the feck do you think you are? 

 

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

FRED THE SHRED 

WORKS FOR THE BANK

 

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

TRUST MEEEEEEE

I WORK FOR THE BANK

 

GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!

 

Dragan,

As Chairman of caley Jags Together, I was genuinely interested in your ideas about membership etc, and would have raised them at my next meeting with Kenny Cameron. In light of that last post - won't be happening. I realise that you appear to be new around this forum and appear to be wanting to point score, but that is out of order. If someone presents you with  a counter argument, could you do them the good grace of arguing back instead of spewing vitriol at someone you don't know. That's how we work. If you want to discuss your ideas, PM me please - but don't expect me to get into a haranguing match on this forum. Cheers, Davie Balfour.

[draganict]

Imagine the scene in a Hearts household!

 

I live in Wester HaIles and my family budget is £200 this week,

 

mmm will I spend £120 on a trip to Inverness. Bit expensive so I probably will spend the money on family stuff instead. OH wait a minute if I blow the £120 on the trip  ICT will donate £5 to a group who at the moment have feck all to do with the running of Hearts.

 

What should I Ngoo DO? Will I blow the £120 but cut back a bit and do the family stuff and I could put double (£10) towards Hearts if I  don't travel.

 

ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT ANY JAMBO IS BASING THEIR DECISION TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY TO COME TO INVERNESS BASED ON A £5 DONATION IS QUITE FRANKLY DELUDED

[Rival]

Dragan, you have posted elsewhere that fans should be doing more to take control of their clubs and having a say in how they are run....this seems to be in stark contrast to your comments and views on this thread.

ICT have protected their own financial position by ring-fencing the income from the average visiting Hearts support and are making a donation to a fans group who are helping to keep their club operating while another fans driven organisation attempts to find a way for their club to continue.

Nothing at all in any of that is damaging ICT....quite the opposite. There's also no hint of supporting those responsible for Hearts getting into the position they have, nor is it supporting a return to a regime who are likely to run the club in similar fashion in the future (should they survive)....in fact, it's not supporting any of the groups looking to make a bid to take over the club.

Not only is your economic evaluation of the offer clearly wrong, your moral evaluation also seems to suffering somewhat as well.

Your post lacks cohesion and clarity. What are you trying to say? No matter how much you bleat my opinion will not change.

We have great board who apply a great deal of dilligence to the governance of our team.

Our role should not be to help finance Heart's successes of the past few years. It is none of our business. Have you conducted due dilligence on this organisation that you are proposing to finance. Do you even know who they are?

You clearly have not got any background in business or economics.

1. The offer protects ICT's financial position as income from the average visiting club is ring-fenced. i.e. no split of income will be offered from the first 650 tickets.

2. The club will benefit to the tune of £15 for every additional (full paying) Hearts fan that attends as a result of the offer.

3. Your claims that this somehow supports a corrupt regime are unfounded.

4. Yes, as a matter of fact I did do some due diligence on the 1874 Fighting Fund...maybe you should too before digging yourself a deeper hole.

5. Qualified as a Financial Consultant aged 18, held position as Senior Compliance Auditor, Senior Risk Management Officer, Head Analyst (Change Management), Project Manager (Change Management)...all for a major banking group. Does that count as having a sufficient background in business or economics to allow me to comment on this subject?

All for a major banking group? Check you out! All for a major banking group?

That instills trust in us all oh wise one. All for a major banking group? I would be keeping that to myself sonny after the recent performance of MAJOR BANKING GROUPS. You could be unemployable with a CV like that my boy. Especially if you are now backing UKIOS Bank Group.

Sorry in answer to question number 5 you are probably the last person I would ask on this subject.

ALL FOR A MAJOR BANKING GROUP. Who the feck do you think you are?

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

FRED THE SHRED

WORKS FOR THE BANK

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

TRUST MEEEEEEE

I WORK FOR THE BANK

GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!

Dragan,

As Chairman of caley Jags Together, I was genuinely interested in your ideas about membership etc, and would have raised them at my next meeting with Kenny Cameron. In light of that last post - won't be happening. I realise that you appear to be new around this forum and appear to be wanting to point score, but that is out of order. If someone presents you with a counter argument, could you do them the good grace of arguing back instead of spewing vitriol at someone you don't know. That's how we work. If you want to discuss your ideas, PM me please - but don't expect me to get into a haranguing match on this forum. Cheers, Davie Balfour.

Did he beat you poor Davie?

[starchief]

I feel sympathy for the fans of Rangers, Hearts and Dunfermline. Not quite so much Gretna as they came from nothing, went to the top and then back again.

Most of the supporters dont really know about the financial world and who is telling the truth. All they want to do is support their team, whether thats John Greig and Gary Mackay or Flo and Ngoo.

If the finance chiefs give the manager millions, what chance the guy who thinks a balance sheet is something Rolf Harris played to contradict them?

[draganict]

 

 

 

 

Dragan, you have posted elsewhere that fans should be doing more to take control of their clubs and having a say in how they are run....this seems to be in stark contrast to your comments and views on this thread.

 

ICT have protected their own financial position by ring-fencing the income from the average visiting Hearts support and are making a donation to a fans group who are helping to keep their club operating while another fans driven organisation attempts to find a way for their club to continue.

 

Nothing at all in any of that is damaging ICT....quite the opposite.  There's also no hint of supporting those responsible for Hearts getting into the position they have, nor is it supporting a return to a regime who are likely to run the club in similar fashion in the future (should they survive)....in fact, it's not supporting any of the groups looking to make a bid to take over the club.

 

Not only is your economic evaluation of the offer clearly wrong, your moral evaluation also seems to suffering somewhat as well.

Your post lacks cohesion and clarity. What are you trying to say? No matter how much you bleat my opinion will not change.

 

We have great board who apply a great deal of dilligence to the governance of our team.

 

Our role should not be to help finance Heart's successes of the past few years. It is none of our business. Have you conducted due dilligence on this organisation that you are proposing to finance. Do you even know who they are?

 

You clearly have not got any background in business or economics.

 

 

1.  The offer protects ICT's financial position as income from the average visiting club is ring-fenced.  i.e. no split of income will be offered from the first 650 tickets.

2.  The club will benefit to the tune of £15 for every additional (full paying) Hearts fan that attends as a result of the offer.

3.  Your claims that this somehow supports a corrupt regime are unfounded.

4.  Yes, as a matter of fact I did do some due diligence on the 1874 Fighting Fund...maybe you should too before digging yourself a deeper hole.

5.  Qualified as a Financial Consultant aged 18, held position as Senior Compliance Auditor, Senior Risk Management Officer, Head Analyst (Change Management), Project Manager (Change Management)...all for a major banking group.  Does that count as having a sufficient background in business or economics to allow me to comment on this subject?

 

All for a major banking group? Check you out! All for a major banking group?

 

That instills trust in us all oh wise one. All for a major banking group? I would be keeping that to myself sonny after the recent performance of MAJOR BANKING GROUPS. You could be unemployable with a CV like that my boy. Especially if you are now backing UKIOS Bank Group.

 

Sorry in answer to question number 5 you are probably the last person I would ask on this subject.

 

ALL FOR A MAJOR BANKING GROUP. Who the feck do you think you are? 

 

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

HE SHREDS WHEN HE WANTS

FRED THE SHRED 

WORKS FOR THE BANK

 

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

HE WORKS FOR THE BANK

TRUST MEEEEEEE

I WORK FOR THE BANK

 

GET A GRIP!!!!!!!!

 

Dragan,

As Chairman of caley Jags Together, I was genuinely interested in your ideas about membership etc, and would have raised them at my next meeting with Kenny Cameron. In light of that last post - won't be happening. I realise that you appear to be new around this forum and appear to be wanting to point score, but that is out of order. If someone presents you with  a counter argument, could you do them the good grace of arguing back instead of spewing vitriol at someone you don't know. That's how we work. If you want to discuss your ideas, PM me please - but don't expect me to get into a haranguing match on this forum. Cheers, Davie Balfour.

 

In my opinion you used your status to take a shot at me and I can assure I don't back down to cheap shots. Not from you or anybody else. If I have anything to say to Kenny Cameron on a commercial basis (and yes I have some positive ideas that may or may not involve you) I will talk to the club directlly. I hope to do this soon on a schools season iticket nitiative backed by some businesses.

 

If you send outgoing fire then please expect some incoming fire!

 

There is really good fun on the forum and I treat it as good fun. Bit of banter here and a bit of banter there. I thought publishing your CV online was quite ridiculous.

 

I have been on the forum before and I can assure you that I watched Caley with my Dad in the days of Clyne, Pressley, Allan, Park, Urquart, Caldwell, Johnston etc before you were born and I regularly stood in the Howden End before you were born so don't give me the newcomer attitude. 

 

There is no harm in stimulating debate but do not even attempt to pull rank!!!!!!! I will continue to express  my opinion

[Renegade]

IIRC, was Vlad linked with taking over our club before he made a move for Hearts?

 

I'm sure it was Kilmarnock that Romanov looked at before Hearts, but I might be wrong.  Don't recollect talk of him coming here though, unless it is that fellow MacGregor you're think of who looked at taking over Elgin before being linked with us.  He was in the adult entertainment business from what I remember.

[davie]

Not pulling "rank" in any way, just trying stimulate informed banter. BTW, I seriously hope you weren'y watching footie before I was born or you're in danger of being incredibly old!