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Alex MacLeod

EU In or Out

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Just out of interest Kingsmills (and anyone else for that matter), would you still be a supporter of independence if the likelihood was that Scotland would have its own right wing government for the foreseeable future? I suspect not.

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1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

Just out of interest Kingsmills (and anyone else for that matter), would you still be a supporter of independence if the likelihood was that Scotland would have its own right wing government for the foreseeable future? I suspect not.

I simply want independence and the people of Scotland can elect who they want in government. 

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On 5/25/2019 at 4:21 PM, IBM said:

I simply want independence and the people of Scotland can elect who they want in government. 

No need for me to reply. That puts the case concisely but perfectly.

On reflection, I should answer Yngwie's question more directly. I would find an extreme right wing regime in Edinburgh just as worrying and threatening as one in London, perhaps even more so.

However, since Scotland has not voted by majority for a right of centre party since 1955, I doubt that would be a serious threat.

Even then it was the moderate centre right Conservatives of Anthony Eden. Very different from the Alexander(Boris) Johnstons, Dominic Raabs and Nigel (stockbroker of the people) Farages who loom  large today.

Edited by Kingsmills
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On 5/25/2019 at 2:53 PM, Yngwie said:

Just out of interest Kingsmills (and anyone else for that matter), would you still be a supporter of independence if the likelihood was that Scotland would have its own right wing government for the foreseeable future? I suspect not.

A moot point. You'd be hard pushed to find evidence of the likelihood of that happening. 

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Like it or not, the EU Parliamentary elections were effectively a proxy second referendum.

Interesting to note that, in Scotland, the unambiguously remain parties outpolled the unambiguously leave parties by more than two to one. In England, on the same basis, the ratio was 54/46 and the picture very similar in Wales.

No wonder the nutters are running scared of a confirmatory vote. Since when did proposing a mass exercise in democracy become an affront to democracy?

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On 5/24/2019 at 10:26 AM, Kingsmills said:

Well, the inevitable has happened and May is gone.

Just as inevitable is the fact that her successor will be an extreme brexiteer determined to pull the United Kingdom out of the most successful economic and cultural union in history on a no deal basis with the inevitable economic and cultural disaster that will ensue leaving the UK isolated, insular and xenophobic.

I feel sorry for our friends and neighbours in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who, in all probability will have no choice but to endure these consequences.

However, we in Scotland will have a choice. There will of course to challenges and difficulties in taking an independent course but we have the oportunity to be an outward looking, confident, welcoming internationalist nation rather than facing the certainly of what lies ahead if we do nothing.

 

You are quite right Kingsmills, those of us living in Englandshire have no choice in the matter no matter which way we want to vote. I wrote to Alex Salmond before Indyref1 to question the fairness of so many Scots not being allowed to have a say in our future but got a stock answer and directed to the legal position.

It's a conundrum I don't have an answer to offer but it grates on me hugely. I live down here while working for RBS and have no rights to participate in voting for the future of my country because I'm registered as a voter in England. Whereas someone of any other nationality can vote on Scotland's future if registered on the electoral role in Scotland. It is my firm belief that the majority of foreign nationals registered in Scotland would likely vote No, while many of us living and working south of the border would vote Yes. It's a process tilting the balance of the vote in favour of the No camp - frustrating!

Living in mid-Norfolk is even more frustrating, it's one of those constituencies where sticking a blue rosette on a donkey would see the poor animal elected to serve in Westminster. I always vote tactically in any election down here, giving my X to the candidate best placed to beat the Tory, but it's always a waste and means nothing. Consequently I feel completely disenfranchised in this neck of the woods.

From a Indyref2 viewpoint, having an extreme Brexiteer as PM could quite likely be the best boost the Yes campaign could have. I'd look forward to coming home even more then...

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18 minutes ago, CaleyCanary said:

You are quite right Kingsmills, those of us living in Englandshire have no choice in the matter no matter which way we want to vote. I wrote to Alex Salmond before Indyref1 to question the fairness of so many Scots not being allowed to have a say in our future but got a stock answer and directed to the legal position.

It's a conundrum I don't have an answer to offer but it grates on me hugely. I live down here while working for RBS and have no rights to participate in voting for the future of my country because I'm registered as a voter in England. Whereas someone of any other nationality can vote on Scotland's future if registered on the electoral role in Scotland. It is my firm belief that the majority of foreign nationals registered in Scotland would likely vote No, while many of us living and working south of the border would vote Yes. It's a process tilting the balance of the vote in favour of the No camp - frustrating!

Living in mid-Norfolk is even more frustrating, it's one of those constituencies where sticking a blue rosette on a donkey would see the poor animal elected to serve in Westminster. I always vote tactically in any election down here, giving my X to the candidate best placed to beat the Tory, but it's always a waste and means nothing. Consequently I feel completely disenfranchised in this neck of the woods.

From a Indyref2 viewpoint, having an extreme Brexiteer as PM could quite likely be the best boost the Yes campaign could have. I'd look forward to coming home even more then...

With regard to your last paragraph, even though that might indeed be a boost to the independence cause, the English, Welsh and Northern Irish are our friends and closest neighbours and I would like to see them avoid that calamity.

However, I genuinely fear that's where things are now inevitably heading.

As far as the voting intention of non native born voters is concerned, first time around, the vast majority of of EU nationals living and voting in Scotland voted no for fear of Scotland not being admitted to the EU and losing their reciprocal rights. I suspect that their attitude will be very different next time around.

Edited by Kingsmills

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On 5/25/2019 at 9:53 AM, Yngwie said:

Just out of interest Kingsmills (and anyone else for that matter), would you still be a supporter of independence if the likelihood was that Scotland would have its own right wing government for the foreseeable future? I suspect not.

I suppose the obvious thing is to turn this question round and to ask whether you would still support the union if the likelihood was that the UK would have its own right-wing government for the foreseeable future...

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That’s less of a hypothetical scenario given that we’ve had Tory-led governments for most of my life! Whether it was Boris or Corbyn in charge, I’d like to think I’d base things on the bigger picture rather than a government which is temporary. 

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34 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

That’s less of a hypothetical scenario given that we’ve had Tory-led governments for most of my life! Whether it was Boris or Corbyn in charge, I’d like to think I’d base things on the bigger picture rather than a government which is temporary. 

So you’d live the rest of your life under an increasingly isolated, right wing Westminster government before believing that your own country might with your support create a modern, outward looking democracy with strong ties to the rest of the world?

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10 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

a modern, outward looking democracy with strong ties to the rest of the world

That sounds like a quote from Farage or Boris!

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39 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

That sounds like a quote from Farage or Boris!

I wouldn’t know, and I take it your answer is in the affirmative.

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10 hours ago, CaleyCanary said:

It's a conundrum I don't have an answer to offer but it grates on me hugely. I live down here while working for RBS and have no rights to participate in voting for the future of my country because I'm registered as a voter in England. Whereas someone of any other nationality can vote on Scotland's future if registered on the electoral role in Scotland.

Maybe we should have a referendum on that :lol:

I say that because I have lived in England for over 40 years now, and, with no intention of moving back to Scotland, I wasn't bothered about not having a vote in the indyref.  Quite a lot of my friends and colleagues down here thought that I should have had one.

In fact I thought it would be wrong if I had a vote.  It would put me in the same boat as, for example, all those who have retired to Spain and yet still vote in the UK.  Doesn't stop me from having an opinion about independence, of course.

Different maybe if you intend to move back, but how could you ever tell between someone who is genuine about that and someone who is just saying it?   And just think of the logistics of trying to give a vote to every Scottish-born person all around the world!

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29 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

Maybe we should have a referendum on that :lol:

I say that because I have lived in England for over 40 years now, and, with no intention of moving back to Scotland, I wasn't bothered about not having a vote in the indyref.  Quite a lot of my friends and colleagues down here thought that I should have had one.

In fact I thought it would be wrong if I had a vote.  It would put me in the same boat as, for example, all those who have retired to Spain and yet still vote in the UK.  Doesn't stop me from having an opinion about independence, of course.

Different maybe if you intend to move back, but how could you ever tell between someone who is genuine about that and someone who is just saying it?   And just think of the logistics of trying to give a vote to every Scottish-born person all around the world!

I agree. Whilst I can understand the frustration of the diaspora not having a vote on the future of what they still regard as their country, I do think that the right thing is to give that right to all those who have honoured us by making Scotland their country of domicile whatever their place of origin.

As SC says, to try to enfrachise those born in Scotland where ever they now live in the world would be an utterly impractical.

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Sadly, I am just about to go off on two weeks' holiday.  But Mrs Snorbens and I will be looking forward, on our return, to joining the like-minded masses on the streets, protesting against the actions of our tinpot banana-republic dictator.

Can any of you confirm the story circulating down here that Police Scotland are investigating a missing persons report for someone known as Ruth Davidson?

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1 hour ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

Can any of you confirm the story circulating down here that Police Scotland are investigating a missing persons report for someone known as Ruth Davidson?

Too quick, Snorbens...   I have just seen that she is to quit because of "the pressures of motherhood".   I am being deafened by the bells on my other leg.

Anyone else you'd like me to get rid of, since I'm obviously in form?

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Phew!   This was clearly going to be a long read after I finished reading the first 3-5pages.

All I feel is that if Boris does not get a clean and decent haircut(never mind a hairstyle) let's at least hope that his brains work well in the extra warmth. 

I think he has more brains and savvy than Trump, though what with latter person being roundly criticized as being something between "deranged" and "insane". Although, in the U>K,   I also think Winston Churchill is already turning over in his grave regardless of the ultimate outcome of all the posturing and pontificating. However, you just never know. Boris may have more brains and energy than one might assume from his appearance....or do you think he is about to lead you into a deeper abyss? Right now his latest actions suggests a deepening pit of despair amongst the proletariat and higher taxes  to cover all the extra expenses that may be involved in  his plans.   So "Oh what a tangled web we weave others to deceive" just springs to mind. All the best  in all your changes and endeavours.

Me? My heart is in my mouth for your future so the best of British Luck. We have our own "heart in mouth" scenario though with our Canadian General Election  arriving in October. It's jolly Justin Trudeau versus the rest. But none of them impress so our decisions will also be agonising,.

Cheers, S.P.

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