RiG

EGM called on 3rd October

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Since Graeme Rae has left I think its ok to repeat what he said to us when we met him at the Queen of the South game last season which didnt exactly fill me with confidence...

"I was invited to join the board and on my first day I was told I was chairman" 

He didnt even want to be chairman. Make of that what you will but this EGM and them stepping down has alarm bells going off for me, I thought we had steadied the ship and we getting good results on the park and were going to have a good season. Will this be a Promotion or bust message? 

Edited by BallisticSheriff
E

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More like administration and the loss of 15 points. I hope not.

Edited by caleyboy

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Given the fact the playing squad does not mirror the message from last season of serious cuts being needed, I would suggest so if we last that long. Astute fans would have expected the squad to be filled with youngsters and a few experienced pro's as we tried to bring the debts down, instead we have quite a strong team with experience brought in (even if they are on relatively low wages - Storey, Keatings, Todorv).

Where next for the club is the big question? It seems a poisoned chalice nobody wants or can make real changes and improvements with.

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37 minutes ago, BallisticSheriff said:

Since Graeme Rae has left I think its ok to repeat what he said to us when we met him at the Queen of the South game last season which didnt exactly fill me with confidence...

"I was invited to join the board and on my first day I was told I was chairman" 

He didnt even want to be chairman.

I would surmise that most of the people on the board don't really want to be there but they are just there until someone / another group who actually want to be in charge can come in.

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This is the time our 10% voting right becomes very very important so please ST use it well

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Seems a bit spineless to lob the EGM grenade, then run for the hills and not face the shareholders.

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We do not know what is ahead but CHANGES and happenings can be for the best.

The playing squad and management are doing their bit on the field, we are just gathering a bit of momentum with our results so lets hope that positivity continues. The current obvious downside as we all know is the lack of support ……….perhaps a new regime will come in with fresh ideas on how to attract the inverness public to our ground and to find more investment for the Club.

All we can do is continue to cheer the lads on, keep an open mind on direction and hope for the best...………..Come on ICT   :ictscarf:

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2 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Orion v Tullochs revisited but is the rumour of a third party vying to support either of those two circulating ?

Is there? Time for the seer to enlighten us...

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8 hours ago, caleyboy said:

This is the time our 10% voting right becomes very very important so please ST use it well

There doesn't seem to be any resolutions to be voted on

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22 hours ago, Satan said:

Is there? Time for the seer to enlighten us...

Well I usually get bowlicks for this but lets say wee Ian and his Envoy would be suss but legal in ICT investment plus some Japanese / Ausssie influence joining forces with Savage may result in a takeover ?

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18 hours ago, L_G said:

There doesn't seem to be any resolutions to be voted on

That doesnt mean there wont be any votes to be taken .... Right now you are facing going into a meeting with only 3 directors and if the rumours in this thread and going around outside of CTO have any truth in them there could be a board of 1 by the time everyone has sat down and introductions are made ...

At the very least any new board members would have to be voted in, even if its a rubber stamp job. I am prepared to be corrected, but I dont think a board of 1 - or even 3 - could co-opt new members as they are not quorate and even if they can those appointments need ratified with a vote. However, if anything 'extraordinary' surfaces at the meeting then the 10% voting right of the trust is crucial. It may not be enough to swing a decision one way or another but that 10% voting right represents the fans and supporters of the club and speaks volumes about the mood of the support and the supporters opinion on what should be important to, and the best way forward for the good and benefit of the club.  With all due respect, anyone on the trust board who thinks that the 10% voting share is not important should perhaps give themselves a wee shake and take another look !! It has never been so important !    

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

That doesnt mean there wont be any votes to be taken .... Right now you are facing going into a meeting with only 3 directors and if the rumours in this thread and going around outside of CTO have any truth in them there could be a board of 1 by the time everyone has sat down and introductions are made ...

At the very least any new board members would have to be voted in, even if its a rubber stamp job. I am prepared to be corrected, but I dont think a board of 1 - or even 3 - could co-opt new members as they are not quorate and even if they can those appointments need ratified with a vote. However, if anything 'extraordinary' surfaces at the meeting then the 10% voting right of the trust is crucial. It may not be enough to swing a decision one way or another but that 10% voting right represents the fans and supporters of the club and speaks volumes about the mood of the support and the supporters opinion on what should be important to, and the best way forward for the good and benefit of the club.  With all due respect, anyone on the trust board who thinks that the 10% voting share is not important should perhaps give themselves a wee shake and take another look !! It has never been so important !    

 

On 9/20/2019 at 8:19 PM, CaleyD said:

Great idea, just a shame that the club haven't sent out any proxy forms 🤷‍♂️

Evelyn at the club has emailed me a proxy form after I rang them. Happy to forward a form on to anybody who needs one. Just PM me.

Edited by TheMantis

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49844511

So debts are approx £1.6M and we need more fans. Seems pretty legit. 

While investment in youth has to be applauded, it raises questions what previous regimes did with transfer fees & prize monies such that we are spending £500k in one period - or is this just the usual accumulation based on salaries/expenses etc - if so where's the return? Historically has too much focus weighed on the first team squad that youth was neglected/marginalised. Based on the lack of young players that have been given real opportunities over the last 15 years (excluding Christie & Polly - maybe McAllister/Sutherland) it would suggest so. Hopefully as an outcome of the EGM, there can be a defined strategy for how the club will be more sustainable and where we see youth (potential sellable assets) moving forwards such that any donation investment is seen as worthwhile if there is anyone in the background willing to contribute.

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2 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49844511

So debts are approx £1.6M and we need more fans. Seems pretty legit. 

While investment in youth has to be applauded, it raises questions what previous regimes did with transfer fees & prize monies such that we are spending £500k in one period - or is this just the usual accumulation based on salaries/expenses etc - if so where's the return? Historically has too much focus weighed on the first team squad that youth was neglected/marginalised. Based on the lack of young players that have been given real opportunities over the last 15 years (excluding Christie & Polly - maybe McAllister/Sutherland) it would suggest so. Hopefully as an outcome of the EGM, there can be a defined strategy for how the club will be more sustainable and where we see youth (potential sellable assets) moving forwards such that any donation investment is seen as worthwhile if there is anyone in the background willing to contribute.

Doesn't really help the fact in the past few seasons, most our players have left for free. If I'm right, everyone last season who left, went for free...

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18 hours ago, TheMantis said:

 

Evelyn at the club has emailed me a proxy form after I rang them. Happy to forward a form on to anybody who needs one. Just PM me.

Are they operating a "fan blacklist" ? 😲 Perhaps they cant afford overseas charges ? :canada:

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£485000 this year on youth development, while admirable, is commercial suicide for a team like us especially given the track record of youngsters coming through in recent years as eluded to by bdu98196 above.

Every business expects a return for it's investment and youth development is just that. Any potential investor or savour of the club, if it comes to it, would look to cut departments that make a loss and hemorrhage money so it's only logical that it's viability is questioned. 

I'm not up to speed with the SFA's Project Brave programme so if anyone is in the know then info would be appreciated but in the meantime do we not receive subsidies from the SFA towards youth development? I'm pretty sure it's not much of anything even if we do.

I also think this sums up some of the the issues faced by Scottish football as a whole and why youth development should be nationalised and run, in part, by the governing body. They sit back and take the spoils but expect everyone else to do the dirty work. If a club our size is spending that eye-watering amount on youth development how much are every other club spending annually across the country and what total investment does that amount to? It would be interesting to see the total return on youth development across the board and may go a long way to explain why so many of our clubs are in such a mess financially.

It's admirable that Scot Gardiner has spoken out in advance of the EGM to explain a few things but also believe it's a genuine rally call to everyone out their to come along on match day and attend when you can.    

If laying it out on the line isn't enough to bring people along then unfortunately nothing will. 

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24 minutes ago, MrCaleyjag said:

I'm not up to speed with the SFA's Project Brave programme so if anyone is in the know then info would be appreciated but in the meantime do we not receive subsidies from the SFA towards youth development? I'm pretty sure it's not much of anything even if we do.

The  negative impact of Project Brave was well trailed prior to its introduction and whilst worthy in what it is trying to achieve the requirement for clubs to have in effect six full-time employees as a minimum requirement is not sustainable in relation to the income levels in the Scottish game (as well as Academy Director and access to various facilities, etc). We have mitigated this effect to an extent, e.g.by using Carlo as one of the coaches for example, however there has also been a significant number of casulaties along the way due to background politics.

A number of clubs have taken the view to in effect pull the plug on youth development.

A proposal was made a year ago to try and move the development side into a Foundation however things have gone silent on progress towards this (though if the rumours about the Club under our departed CE requiring the Devlopment Foundation to pay the club for use of IP, training facilities, etc were true then this would partly explain why this has not got off the ground).

Brave also does not provide a path for players over the age of 18. This is why we have looked to use Fort William as a vehicle for players.

If Alan Savage is to get involved I suspect that youth will be part of the equation as he is passionate about this side of things (obviously bankrolling in effect the Clach Youth side).

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A couple of points.  An operating loss does not equal debt so making two £800,000 losses does not mean that the club are £1.6m in debt.

The stands are assets but what are we going to do with them?  Sell them?  The club won't have to pay the money they were to Tullochs and can sell naming rights though, not sure what the going rate is for the name of a Scottish lower league stadium.

When people talk about investment in the club they mean they want someone to write off money to the club, essentially.  An investment is something that you expect to increase or at least maintain value. If I was going to invest in something to increase my wealth, a full-time lower league Scottish club would not be my first choice.

Regarding the statement by Scot Gardiner, we have always needed more fans, I can remember before the major Tullcohs investment in 2002 David Sutherland making statements about the club being in a completely different position if we had an average crowd of 3000.  During that time, the only way we managed to increase our average crowd was to get promoted.  That's the dichotmy we face - the only way we can get the crowds we need to fund the club to get promoted is by getting promoted.  I do think that there is a relentless negativity about all these stories, it's almost as if the club and existing fans are blaming people for not showing up which isn't going to encourage people to get to the ground.  It's a very very hard thing to get people to attend sporting events in person if they don't do it already tbh.

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4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49844511

So debts are approx £1.6M and we need more fans. Seems pretty legit. 

While investment in youth has to be applauded, it raises questions what previous regimes did with transfer fees & prize monies such that we are spending £500k in one period - or is this just the usual accumulation based on salaries/expenses etc - if so where's the return? Historically has too much focus weighed on the first team squad that youth was neglected/marginalised. Based on the lack of young players that have been given real opportunities over the last 15 years (excluding Christie & Polly - maybe McAllister/Sutherland) it would suggest so. Hopefully as an outcome of the EGM, there can be a defined strategy for how the club will be more sustainable and where we see youth (potential sellable assets) moving forwards such that any donation investment is seen as worthwhile if there is anyone in the background willing to contribute.

Not sure how those figures add up to 1.6 million, maybe that's part of our problem ;)

Regarding the youth development, have a look at the 'Fife Elite Academy' as an example of how four regionally connected teams can pool together for one academy, this is one way of reducing the burden of clubs individual youth setups. This ,in theory should focus the highest quality coaching on a smaller number of players, increasing the chances of successful graduates.

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44 minutes ago, Satan said:

Regarding the youth development, have a look at the 'Fife Elite Academy' as an example of how four regionally connected teams can pool together for one academy, this is one way of reducing the burden of clubs individual youth setups. This ,in theory should focus the highest quality coaching on a smaller number of players, increasing the chances of successful graduates.

Interesting.  I was thinking about this earlier today, and, prompted by Scot Gardiner's remark about kids coming from Wick and Elgin to train, it occurred to me that maybe ICT, County, and Elgin should pool youth development resources.   I couldn't see, however, how you would resolve the question of "which team should a promising player move into?".   Would be good to know if the Fife Elite Academy has an approach for that.

 

At the moment, Ross County has the money, and the whip hand.  But it won't always be like that.  Maybe a good fairy with lots of money will emerge (next week?), and we will be top dog for a while.

But in the longer term, the sustainability of two Highland clubs on top of each other (12.8 miles apart according to Bing Maps) and near the top of Scottish football - with the expenditure required to stay there - has to be in question.   Two things which the lower 30 clubs should be fighting for are an enlarged Premiership and/or better distribution of money throughout the leagues.

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It was a discussion with a colleague from Dunfermline that reminded me about that Fife Elite and that they had benefited from getting some of the talented graduates - not sure if there is a draft type system involved like NFL etc, but I'm pretty sure all those clubs involved have signed players from the academy.

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