Israel Storm Ships

[Oddquine]

More inclined to trust Al-Jazeera than IDF produced videos, I'm afraid. Particularly one which was twittered by Israeli journalist, Lisa Goldman as IDF spokesman uploads blurry B&W footage of #flotilla, with helpful graphics explaining what you're supposed to see.

I note that even yet, there has been no IDF video of any weapon other than could easily have been cobbled up on board around the time that the Israeli Navy started firing warning shots across the ship's bows.....and certainly nothing used which could remotely have been a justification for killing people in "self defence".

Interesting to note that I have a weapon in the dish on my sideboard.....a bag of marbles just like the weaponry shown..and I can't even claim to have children around..plus the wherewithal to produce any one of those "weapons" Therefore anyone who enters my house had better be coming in to defend themselves by shooting to kill....or I'll surely beat the living daylights out of them.

Just another example of OTT Israeli actions/reactions, imo.

Of course they were deliberately sailing to breach an illegal blockade.......just look on it as a high seas version of the G7 demonstrations, and any other demonstration which ends with police/participant violence.....but the point is that Israel killed people who were using what amounted to sticks and stones solely in order to ensure Israel was able to continue inflicting that illegal blockade on the inhabitants of Gaza.

It certainly backfired on those who were killed...but it has all backfired on Israel as well...and hopefully this time they will take a long hard look themselves....and stop behaving like the playground bully.

It sickens me that a country born out of the inhumane treatment suffered by Jews in Europe has spent the past sixty odd years visiting much the same kind of inhumane treatment on their own pariah equivalents.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Oddquine

[DornochCaley]

More inclined to trust Al-Jazeera than IDF produced videos, I'm afraid. Particularly one which was twittered by Israeli journalist, Lisa Goldman as IDF spokesman uploads blurry B&W footage of #flotilla, with helpful graphics explaining what you're supposed to see.

I note that even yet, there has been no IDF video of any weapon other than could easily have been cobbled up on board around the time that the Israeli Navy started firing warning shots across the ship's bows.....and certainly nothing used which could remotely have been a justification for killing people in "self defence".

Interesting to note that I have a weapon in the dish on my sideboard.....a bag of marbles just like the weaponry shown..and I can't even claim to have children around..plus the wherewithal to produce any one of those "weapons" Therefore anyone who enters my house had better be coming in to defend themselves by shooting to kill....or I'll surely beat the living daylights out of them.

Just another example of OTT Israeli actions/reactions, imo.

Of course they were deliberately sailing to breach an illegal blockade.......just look on it as a high seas version of the G7 demonstrations, and any other demonstration which ends with police/participant violence.....but the point is that Israel killed people who were using what amounted to sticks and stones solely in order to ensure Israel was able to continue inflicting that illegal blockade on the inhabitants of Gaza.

It certainly backfired on those who were killed...but it has all backfired on Israel as well...and hopefully this time they will take a long hard look themselves....and stop behaving like the playground bully.

It sickens me that a country born out of the inhumane treatment suffered by Jews in Europe has spent the past sixty odd years visiting much the same kind of inhumane treatment on their own pariah equivalents.

Well said.

[TheKnowledge]

Dead Ball specialist, how old are you? Don't you realise just how unfashionable it is support Israel? If you think Israel have the right to protect themselves, keep it to yourself!! Just because all the countries surrounding them ganged up, tried to launch surprise attacks on a national holiday (and lost big time), this doesn't give them the right to be nervous.

I think the USA are totally correct to try keep some control over Israel by funding them because if they didn't, Israel would start waring with everyone round about them. Why are these ships going to Gaza when they know fine well? Of course the commandos are going to go aboard! British, German, Dutch, American, french, Italian and South African commandos board suspicious ships of the coast of africa everyday without incident. Probably because these ships aren't full of Jihadists with a hatred for Jews. Does anyone believe that the IDF thinks they could attack a ship and no one would notice? I'm sure they would have wanted to avoid it. They were attacked for the trillionth time in their history and reacted.

Once Hamas are removed from power (which they gained by violence), then Israel can negotiate, and blockades can be lifted. Trying to ignore blockades, but going tooled up just incase gets no one nowhere.

[DornochCaley]

Dead Ball specialist, how old are you? Don't you realise just how unfashionable it is support Israel? If you think Israel have the right to protect themselves, keep it to yourself!! Just because all the countries surrounding them ganged up, tried to launch surprise attacks on a national holiday (and lost big time), this doesn't give them the right to be nervous.

I think the USA are totally correct to try keep some control over Israel by funding them because if they didn't, Israel would start waring with everyone round about them. Why are these ships going to Gaza when they know fine well? Of course the commandos are going to go aboard! British, German, Dutch, American, french, Italian and South African commandos board suspicious ships of the coast of africa everyday without incident. Probably because these ships aren't full of Jihadists with a hatred for Jews. Does anyone believe that the IDF thinks they could attack a ship and no one would notice? I'm sure they would have wanted to avoid it. They were attacked for the trillionth time in their history and reacted.

Once Hamas are removed from power (which they gained by violence), then Israel can negotiate, and blockades can be lifted. Trying to ignore blockades, but going tooled up just incase gets no one nowhere.

You cannot be serious? The Tel Aviv have a problem with Hamas, not the Gazians. No people should be treated like this. This is just another example of oppresive action by those who think ordinary people like yourself and I are worth nothing.

The sooner this is fought, the sooner we will have a fairer world. If fighting it against Israel is the first step, then it must be done. The Activists are going good. Support them. They need it.

[PullMyFinger]

Once Hamas are removed from power (which they gained by violence), then Israel can negotiate, and blockades can be lifted. Trying to ignore blockades, but going tooled up just incase gets no one nowhere.

Hamas were democratically elected according to the International community.

Principles or beliefs drive some people to fanatical violence towards their perceived enemy and they can justify it to their conscience.

Tooled up? Kitchen knives and hand tools is hardly tooled up for combat is it?

I do agree though that the trouble comes from their refusal to recognise Israel as a legitimate state.

The siege of Gaza is designed to force Hamas to sit round the table but they would rather watch their own people die than recognise Israel exists.

Edited June 7, 2010 by PullMyFinger

[TheKnowledge]

True, they were elected but before, and since they were, they've attacked Fatah members and their support, a bit like Mugabe.

According to a report I read, I think in the guardian, people on the boats had guns. The same report said that the people on the boat had injuries consistent with executions but, if I was shooting guns at soldiers, I would expect similar justice.

[Yngwie]

Another point that didn't come out at first is that 3 of the first Israeli soldiers to land on the boat (and get beaten up) were then chained and held hostage in the lower decks. Unsurprisingly their colleagues launched a rescue mission, and that's when the killings happened.

[ictchris]

The peace activists looked pretty damn peaceful, I have to say. The Turkish 'charity' who ran the ships has been linked with fundraising for terrorism. I still think the action by Israel was counter productive and the whole issue could have been handled better, although as Ywngie says the issue wasn't as black and white as many would make out.

I see some of the 'activists' have been sent home now, including one from Dundee. Any truth to the rumours that the people of Gaza are currently sending an aid ship to dock in Dundeh Harbour?

[TheKnowledge]

The peace activists looked pretty damn peaceful, I have to say. The Turkish 'charity' who ran the ships has been linked with fundraising for terrorism. I still think the action by Israel was counter productive and the whole issue could have been handled better, although as Ywngie says the issue wasn't as black and white as many would make out.

I see some of the 'activists' have been sent home now, including one from Dundee. Any truth to the rumours that the people of Gaza are currently sending an aid ship to dock in Dundeh Harbour?

Lolz!!

[Oddquine]

I can't believe that anybody with a lick of sense actually accepts without question the crap which emits from the mouths of Israeli spokesmen...and the crap which is uploaded by Israeli apologist sites.

As far as I'm concerned, if videos uploaded by the IDF or the IsraelMFA don't let you see exif data ...the videos are suspect.......because they have been proven to be false in the past.....and not the distant past, either.

On average, over the piece, I am inclined to think that Israel wouldn't know the truth if it reared up and bit them on the bahookey.

I am as much a supporter of the Palestinian cause because the Israelis feel they have to lie to justify their actions as because of the inequity of those actions....can't see any merit, myself, in supporting any cause which is inequitable, unfair, disproportionate and necessitates lies to convince others it is equitable, fair and proportionate.

Fair, equitable, proportionate and honest will get my support.............lies, unfairness, dissembling and disproportionate will not.

Simples.

Yngwie, just which part of nearly do you not understand...as in The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes. After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades. Chains and shackles? I think not!

Seems to me that as long as the US is brown-nosing Israel to the extent that Israel can, and does, thumb its nose at the rest of the world knowing the USA has its back......any reasonably peaceful method the representatives of other countries (32 in this case) can do to remind the world media of the illegal and insupportable actions of Israel regarding their treatment of the Occupied Palestinian Territories is fine by me.

I was born months before the declaration of the state of Israel..and have watched the ongoing situation all my life and have been, from a fairly early age, frankly disgusted at the actions of an oppressed people using force of arms to oppress others in order to attain goals forbidden by the International community and International Law.

I just do not understand where apologists for Israeli actions are coming from, I'm afraid........and to date, nobody has ever given me a cogent reason as to why people who were trashed, confined to ghettoes by the Nazis and installed in internment/death camps for no reason other than they were inconvenient to the Nazi idea of the best demographic for Germany feel it is appropriate to inflict the same misery on others because they are not convenient in ensuring the appropriate demography to ensure a Jewish state.

[Yngwie]

Yngwie, just which part of nearly do you not understand...as in The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes. After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades. Chains and shackles? I think not!

I don't understand your point there and I've never seen whatever text you are quoting.

[Alex MacLeod]

This whole problem is going to go on and on for many years to come. It was brought about by Britian and America in 48. We, the super western peacekeepers of the world took it upon ourselves to annex a part of an Arab Islamic country, surrounded by many other Arab Islamic countries and fill it with non-Arab non-Islamic citizens and expect them to live happily ever after. When thats not seen to be happening we supply the Israeli with arms and training and let them try to expand their annexed lands.

If anyone wants to believe the biblical prophets, bear in mind, it was prophesised that some nations would become very rich and strong and act as protectors of the weak (USA and Britian). Those peoples would then be releaved of their strengths and riches and be scattered over all the lands of those who hate them. The jews will never have a land of their own and the yellow races will be the new rulers of the world.