SDSR

[Tug]

well it all comes to this

today the government is going to announce its plans for where and what is going to get chopped in an effort to claw back the billions of pounds that have been widdled down the drain in recent years

any one got any thoughts or suggestions

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Scrap Trident , get the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan . That'd save a few bob for starters .

[Yngwie]

We'll probably lose Kinloss & Lossie.

[Scotty]

Will they scrap both ?? Thought they would need at least one of them for North Atlantic security as well as search and rescue etc ?

For the North and Moray, I could see one of those air bases going (merged perhaps) as well as Fort George losing its status as an operational base but kept as a tourist attraction.

[WYNESS101]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-11565829

Kinloss 'to close' as ministers cancel new Nimrod order

[CaleyD]

I don't have any problem with cuts...in theory. The UK has maintained an over inflated sense of it's own importance in military matters for far too long and it's not before time that we made spending cuts in that regard.

What does worry me is the speed/way it is being done and the wider impact that will have on the country and the economy. You can't just cut thousands of jobs over night without providing some alternatives that will help boost employment in other sectors.

Seems pretty pointless solving a problem in one area when it's just going to create another elsewhere.

What also worries me is that our scaling back in practice won't be matched by reduced expectations on the part of those sending our troops into battle and we are just going to witness more serious instances of poorly equipped forces spread even thinner on the ground.

[Georgeios]

Scrap Trident , get the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan . That'd save a few bob for starters .

We are not in Iraq anymore.

[Georgeios]

Angus Robertson MP, the SNP's Westminster leader, said: "The Ministry of Defence should retain both RAF Kinloss and RAF Lossiemouth, and it also has a responsibility to be clear to the Moray community and service families about their plans.

If he got his way anyway both bases would be shut along with every other mod establishment as Scotland would have no right to retain any of the British armed forces as we would no longer be part of Britain.... thanks snp

[Scotty]

Kinloss looks to be gone ..... although it may be used to house troops being withdrawn from bases in Germany

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39667133/Defence-Review - Page 33

[Scotty]

here's a feed link from the company we use for ICT headlines: http://newsnow.co.uk/h/?JavaScript=1&search=defence+review

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Scrap Trident , get the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan . That'd save a few bob for starters .

We are not in Iraq anymore.

I think there's still a few hundred in Iraq training the Iraqi security Forces .

[Georgeios]

Try max 100 the US are dealing with the training.

[+DoofersDad]

Spending huge sums of money chasing unrealistic expectations, getting into serious debt and then panicking by hastily throwing folk out of work in a vain attempt to resolve the problem. Why does the Government keep copying the Dundee Board?

[SMEE]

The most annoying part for me, is building two aircraft carriers...immediatley mothballing one, only to maybe NEVER see service. That is insane! The other wont have any aircraft till 2020, even then, only 10 aircraft are earmarked for it. Not really worth building!

[Scotty]

The most annoying part for me, is building two aircraft carriers...immediatley mothballing one, only to maybe NEVER see service. That is insane! The other wont have any aircraft till 2020, even then, only 10 aircraft are earmarked for it. Not really worth building!

Whilst that is indeed ludicrous in the extreme, what is even more ludicrous is that cancelling the project would cost more than building them ... due to the penalty payments that would be required in the negotiated contract.

[Tug]

The most annoying part for me, is building two aircraft carriers...immediatley mothballing one, only to maybe NEVER see service. That is insane! The other wont have any aircraft till 2020, even then, only 10 aircraft are earmarked for it. Not really worth building!

Whilst that is indeed ludicrous in the extreme, what is even more ludicrous is that cancelling the project would cost more than building them ... due to the penalty payments that would be required in the negotiated contract.

well i know its selfish but im a happy man

at least i know im safe for now, sorry for those at kinloss but thats part of the job. does annoy me a bit though that it has come down to this and it wasnt sorted long before it came to this

[Alex MacLeod]

The most annoying part for me, is building two aircraft carriers...immediatley mothballing one, only to maybe NEVER see service. That is insane! The other wont have any aircraft till 2020, even then, only 10 aircraft are earmarked for it. Not really worth building!

As Scotty says, the cost to cancel would be too high. The one ship we retain will be armed with fighters from NATO (mainly French) until this country can provide our own around 2020. This ship will tour the world advertising its potential in the hope that another nation will favour its capabilities and make an offer for the second one. And maybe some nation will want more built in Scotland.

What we see now as a waste of cash could be a bringer of cash in the future.

Personally I think that, for too long now, the military boffins have duped the government into providing funds for things we dont need. Our concentration should be on the defence of our shores and not on America's whims. We, as an island, need air and sea support and we need troops on the ground. We dont need as many personell as we have nor as many ships and planes. There will never be another war to the scale of the WW's. The powerful nations of the past no longer have the power so the threat from them has diminished. None of the major players will ever use their nuclear capability. Chernobyl has taught many people of the long term devastation that such weapons could bring and a world where nobody could live would be a pretty poor prize.

We are in crisis in the western world because, for too long, we have endured a capitalist thinking. Company directors have been paid, and still are, vast amounts of money to take risks. Banking is one example and instead of baling them out the government should have let them dig there way out of their own hole. This countries debt, at the moment, is only a few billion more than it cost to bale out the banks. It will be many years before the country see's any return on that investment. Meanwhile we pay out to boost the profits of the financial establishments that provided us with the cash.

I could go on and on but the bottom line is WE'RE FECKED.

[starchief]

I could go on for hours (and do on other sites) but we're not as badly off as it's made out:

On the question of military personnel, I'm always in favour of more soldiers. Not necessarily to be used as combateers but their training means they can be used for a vast amount of civilian needs too.

Perhaps, though, we've finally woken up to the fact that we're not fighting the Cold War anymore. Maybe now too, we can have a foreign policy closer to that of Ireland or Norway, rather than that of a major player on the world stage.

[Yngwie]

Chernobyl has taught many people of the long term devastation that such weapons could bring

I think we kinda knew that already, no?

[Alex MacLeod]

Chernobyl has taught many people of the long term devastation that such weapons could bring

I think we kinda knew that already, no?

The bombs dropped on japan were small and the outcomes were localised and kept quiet for many years. The world seen the true effects of a nuclear explosion when Chernobyl happened. We seen that an explosion in Russia could affect us and many other countries and it is well publisised that people are still being affected by that devastation.

Starchief, if all those countries owe that much money who do they owe it to?

[starchief]

A lot to China. A lot to each other (the US owes a lot to Japan for instance) and many owe to the World Bank and other large financial authorities. These are of course established by nation states, so they could just agree to 'start again' any time they want. But then you get into how money/finance doesn't really exist.

It used to be tied to the gold standard (i.e. countries would buy gold and that was your countries wealth). Now, it's based on nothing - just a notion that the pound is worth this amount to the dollar (the initial rates established at the end of WW2 - one of the absolute basis of poverty in 3rd World countries).

It's just like the stock market. People can make millions on a rumour, yet absolutely nothing has changed. Just like the financial crisis, it's a house of cards just waiting to fall. At the moment, it suits everyone not to look to closely at how the modern financial world survives. But really, that's only been going on for around 50 years. It's frightening how quickly manufacturing/agriculture has decreased as the measure of prosperity and how suddenly it could all go haywire.

[DornochCaley]

I'm not going to say too much as i will start ranting. But i am just going to make an observation.

The richest people and companies in Britain have an estimated wealth of 4000 Billion. If the Government are looking to slash 800 Billion from the debt, why not tax these companies? I know, it is not easy to do, but it can be done. 20% tax on all the companies that earn a certain amount of money could slash the debt by BILLIONS. There is no need to get the whole 800 billion from them as there are cuts that should have been made anyway. But why not just tax these companies and save thousands of jobs?

******* Tories.

[Yngwie]

I'm not going to say too much as i will start ranting. But i am just going to make an observation.

The richest people and companies in Britain have an estimated wealth of 4000 Billion. If the Government are looking to slash 800 Billion from the debt, why not tax these companies? I know, it is not easy to do, but it can be done. 20% tax on all the companies that earn a certain amount of money could slash the debt by BILLIONS. There is no need to get the whole 800 billion from them as there are cuts that should have been made anyway. But why not just tax these companies and save thousands of jobs?

******* Tories.

These evil companies (who provide millions of jobs in the UK) already get taxed at 28%, as well as paying huge amounts in national insurance, VAT and other taxes.

If you increase their tax burden much further, the ones affected most will just reregister themselves overseas in a lower tax country, meaning the UK coffers will get less tax revenue than at present. And for the companies who don't go that far, if you take more money out of them, they just invest less, cut jobs etc.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on your role model and the thousands of people who are committing perjury just to stitch him up?

[starchief]

Because it wouldn't save jobs, it would cost them as companies slash jobs to pay taxes.

[DornochCaley]

I'm not going to say too much as i will start ranting. But i am just going to make an observation.

The richest people and companies in Britain have an estimated wealth of 4000 Billion. If the Government are looking to slash 800 Billion from the debt, why not tax these companies? I know, it is not easy to do, but it can be done. 20% tax on all the companies that earn a certain amount of money could slash the debt by BILLIONS. There is no need to get the whole 800 billion from them as there are cuts that should have been made anyway. But why not just tax these companies and save thousands of jobs?

******* Tories.

These evil companies (who provide millions of jobs in the UK) already get taxed at 28%, as well as paying huge amounts in national insurance, VAT and other taxes.

If you increase their tax burden much further, the ones affected most will just reregister themselves overseas in a lower tax country, meaning the UK coffers will get less tax revenue than at present. And for the companies who don't go that far, if you take more money out of them, they just invest less, cut jobs etc.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on your role model and the thousands of people who are committing perjury just to stitch him up?

Role model? Elaberate?

Are you seriously trying to justify this amount of money being kept by business when the country they operate in and the people they target are struggling?

And no, it would not cost more jobs. That 4000 billion is the Profit they make (i think i forgot to mention). In what way would them paying a part of that profit in added tax result in the loss of more jobs? It would mean faaar less Public sector loses. The same public sector which serve the people of this Country. The same people that should be put BEFORE the profit of mass companies. Not the other way round as it seems to be.