SDSR

[DornochCaley]

I'm not going to say too much as i will start ranting. But i am just going to make an observation.

The richest people and companies in Britain have an estimated wealth of 4000 Billion. If the Government are looking to slash 800 Billion from the debt, why not tax these companies? I know, it is not easy to do, but it can be done. 20% tax on all the companies that earn a certain amount of money could slash the debt by BILLIONS. There is no need to get the whole 800 billion from them as there are cuts that should have been made anyway. But why not just tax these companies and save thousands of jobs?

******* Tories.

These evil companies (who provide millions of jobs in the UK) already get taxed at 28%, as well as paying huge amounts in national insurance, VAT and other taxes.

If you increase their tax burden much further, the ones affected most will just reregister themselves overseas in a lower tax country, meaning the UK coffers will get less tax revenue than at present. And for the companies who don't go that far, if you take more money out of them, they just invest less, cut jobs etc.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on your role model and the thousands of people who are committing perjury just to stitch him up?

Role model? Elaberate?

Are you seriously trying to justify this amount of money being kept by business when the country they operate in and the people they target are struggling?

And no, it would not cost more jobs. That 4000 billion is the Profit they make (i think i forgot to mention). In what way would them paying a part of that profit in added tax result in the loss of more jobs? It would mean faaar less Public sector loses. The same public sector which serve the people of this Country. The same people that should be put BEFORE the profit of mass companies. Not the other way round as it seems to be.

[Yngwie]

Role model?

Just a wee jibe about the capitalist conspiracy against Comrade Tommy

She told how she had sex with Mr Sheridan beneath a picture of Communist revolutionary Che Guevara.

You must be jealous of her

[starchief]

The only reason companies exist is for profit. Try to squeeze more out of them and they'll try to minimise that, i.e. lay off workers. You don't think they'll just accept a cut in profits with a shrug of their shoulders do you?

Personally, I would have been happier to stop so much pain with the cuts by putting an extra 2p on the basic rate of income tax. That's all these cuts amount to.

As for Tommy, I'm surprised the SSP got suckered by the NotW. I doubt sensationalist headlines about sexploits in the News of the Screws would have cost them a single vote. Sheridan should have just laughed it off saying 'typical Murdoch mud slinging'.

[DornochCaley]

Role model?

Just a wee jibe about the capitalist conspiracy against Comrade Tommy

She told how she had sex with Mr Sheridan beneath a picture of Communist revolutionary Che Guevara.

You must be jealous of her

Ahhh i see

I am not Tommy Sheridans biggest fan. I do like how he used to rant in pubs etc though. It showed how much it ment to him. I wouldn't say there is a consiracy as Capitalists have bigger fish to fry than wee Tommy. But, i do think something does smell off. Some of the crap the women who are saying they slept with Tommy are saying is pure bull. Some of it contradicts stuff they said earlier on in the case!

Ohhh just a bit. Lucky girl

[PullMyFinger]

With the threat of closure looming over Lossiemouth and the fact that Kinloss is already set to shut up shop, I really fear for the future of the good people of Dingwall. Who is to drop off their food parcels and medical aid?

[Georgeios]

;-) they may keep Tain Ranges open so they will still be flying in that area..

[DornochCaley]

;-) they may keep Tain Ranges open so they will still be flying in that area..

I bloody well hope not. They fire their weapons at the practice bit on the Tain beach at 11 o'clock at night sometimes.

[PullMyFinger]

They could always realign a few degrees.

[Alex MacLeod]

DornochCaley, a little point you fail to make regarding the 4000 billion that companies make in profit. That profit will be paid out in dividend to shareholders like me and many other people in the country. On reciept of the dividend we are liable for tax as this is deemed to be income. For a lot of us that tax is 40%

The problems that this country has are not to do with insufficient funds but more to do with how the funds are spent Dishonest politicians have been creaming off some of those funds. Dishonest dealings with business's takes some. Phenominal amounts spent on unusable buildings standing takes some. But the biggest wastage goes on the short term fix and the failure to look to the future

Example: a socialist controlled council decides to same approx 60k a year by getting rid of a road sweeper / gully sucker. After three winters of gritting the roads a big rain comes and floods the streets and houses on them. Insurance companies pay out on claims and the council has to unclog the road drains and, in some cases, dig them up to remove the winter grit that had been the cause of the flooding. Cost in excess of a million quid.

Example: a socialist government decides they must save the countries banks so they beg, borrow and steal funds to do so by buying out the said banks. Result = country in extreme debt, very high interest payments to be met over the next how ever many years and little or no chance of a return on the initial investment.

These are some of the things fecking up the country........not business making profit.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Alex MacLeod
spell

[PullMyFinger]

;-) they may keep Tain Ranges open so they will still be flying in that area..

Wouldn't it be terrible if they got their payloads mixed up?

[DornochCaley]

DornochCaley, a little point you fail to make regarding the 4000 billion that companies make in profit. That profit will be paid out in dividend to shareholders like me and many other people in the country. On reciept of the dividend we are liable for tax as this is deemed to be income. For a lot of us that tax is 40%

The problems that this country has are not to do with insufficient funds but more to do with how the funds are spent Dishonest politicians have been creaming off some of those funds. Dishonest dealings with business's takes some. Phenominal amounts spent on unusable buildings standing takes some. But the biggest wastage goes on the short term fix and the failure to look to the future

Example: a socialist controlled council decides to same approx 60k a year by getting rid of a road sweeper / gully sucker. After three winters of gritting the roads a big rain comes and floods the streets and houses on them. Insurance companies pay out on claims and the council has to unclog the road drains and, in some cases, dig them up to remove the winter grit that had been the cause of the flooding. Cost in excess of a million quid.

Example: a socialist government decides they must save the countries banks so they beg, borrow and steal funds to do so by buying out the said banks. Result = country in extreme debt, very high interest payments to be met over the next how ever many years and little or no chance of a return on the initial investment.

These are some of the things fecking up the country........not business making profit.

Your first paragraph is a good point and i never actually took that into account.

Here is some food for thought. A little story drew up to show how silly Money is....

I was in the middle of the Cairngorm Mountains in the Scottish Highlands, miles from any human habitation, when I saw a group of men approaching me. I knew they were from outer space, because they all had pointy ears like Mr. Spock in Star Trek. When they got near enough, one of them said "Greetings, Earthling!" another clue: not many ordinary humans talk like that. "We bring salutations from outer space!" I understood every word, and that was a stroke of luck, because out of all the six thousand languages spoken on Earth, they had happened to learn the only language I knew.

"We have been reading the news on your internet,? the alien spokesman continued, "and we wish to condole with you on your recession. Hundreds of your schools were going to be rebuilt or refurbished, and now very few of them are. A sad business!" He shook his head. "So there are no people available to do all this rebuilding."

"Oh yes"? I assured him. "There are two and a half million unemployed in this country, including lots of builders, plasterers, plumbers, electricians, and so on ? and lots more of the jobless could quickly learn these skills. The country is full of people who could teach all these useful trades."

"I see!" said the alien. "So it's bricks, and cement, and pipework, and paint, electric wiring and so on you are short of."

"Not a bit of it! Since the recession, builders' merchants' yards up and down the country are full of all this stuff."

"But perhaps the authorities are keeping all these materials in reserve for other important building jobs, in case you run short of raw materials?"

"No, no, nothing like that. All the raw materials ? clay for bricks, metal for pipes and wires, colour for paints ? there's more than enough, up and down the country."

The alien ? and his friends ? appeared puzzled. Then he brightened up.

"Ah, I see what it must be. Transport! You've got all these things, but you can't get them to where they are so desperately wanted."

"Not a bit of it,? I insisted. I didn't want him to think we were that backward. "We have fleets of great trucks, under-used because of the recession. The country is crossed with excellent roads, well surfaced with tarmac. All these materials could be delivered anywhere in Britain within hours."

The aliens went into a huddle, and jabbered away in their own language. Then the spokesman piped up again.

"Let's get this straight. You people here in Britain all want these schools to be built or repaired. You have plenty of people standing around idle who would love to do all the work, if only because their children are being educated in inadequate and ill-equipped schools. You have all the materials, and all the transport you need to get them where they are wanted. So ? excuse me if I seem a bit obtuse ? why don't you just do it?"

"We haven't got the money, of course!"

A longer pause this time.

"Er ? what is this 'money?"

I smiled. How could anyone not know that?

"You know ? money, dibs, spondulicks, the ready! Coins ? little round bits of metal, though most of it is paper, nowadays. High grade paper, of course, with nice designs on it ? in colour, too."

"This paper,? said the alien, with a baffled expression. "What does it do? Can you use it instead of bricks? Or instead of slates on the roof?"

"No, of course not!" Privately I thought that surely space voyagers who have been able to journey billions of miles could get hold of such a simple idea. I tried to explain. "People hand it to each other. Well-off people have to hand some of these bits of paper to the government, then someone hands some of it to the people who make bricks or carry them along the motorway. The actual builders and pipe-layers and so on get some bits of paper each Friday."

More bewildered conversation among the aliens.

"This paper ? high-grade paper as you say, with coloured designs ? can't keep the rain out, or hold the roof up, or carry water or electricity round the new buildings?"

"No, of course not", I said, laughing. "It would just collapse if you put any strain on it, and any water in a paper pipe would just run away. And if you tried to make electric cables out of paper they would probably catch fire!"

"But if you don't have these pieces of coloured paper, even though they are only feeble, useless stuff,? said the alien, "you can't have these schools rebuilt and so on?"

"Exactly," I said. "Now you've got it. Without these pieces of paper, no food is grown or eaten, no clothes are made, no buildings go up ? nothing happens. We all have to pass these pieces of paper around to each other, or everything comes to a halt. In fact most of us here on Earth spend a large part of our time handing these pieces of paper on to other people. Every organisation has many people who spend their lives writing down figures about all these pieces of paper: doing sums, all day. In fact some great concerns don't do anything else ? banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, people concerned with revenue and taxation ? all of them spend their lives fiddling with these bits of paper."

The aliens all looked at each other. I saw several of them pointing a finger to their own foreheads, and making a kind of circular motion with the finger, while pulling a face. I wonder what that means in alien language?

After some more unintelligible conversation, the spokesman said that they had decided to get back in their flying saucer and get away as soon as possible. I thought I heard him say something like, "I thought we were told there was intelligent life on this planet!" but perhaps I mis-heard.

[PullMyFinger]

Once upon a time money was secured against precious metals, ie gold.

Since then it is secured against debt.

The value of metal rose and fell as does the value of debt. I've always been an SNP voter as I believe Scotland can stand on her own two feet but at the moment I am right behind the Tories cuts to get the country back into the black.

[starchief]

For a lot of us that tax is 40%

A lot? PT workers drag the figures down considerably, so let's concentrate just on FT wages.

Mean average for FT workers = £31,323 but that figure is artificially raised by ultra-high earners. So, the median average wage is £25,123. So 50% of FT workers earn below that.

£31,759 would get you into the top 25% of FT earners and £44,881 is enough to get you into the top 10%. Earn £118,027 and you're in the top 1%, with only 0.6% of people in the £150,000 where tax is 50%.

And, of course, 40% is only on earnings over £37,400, not on the whole salary (it might be obvious to you but I know some that don't realise that).

When you actually see those figures, it makes you wonder why the housing bubble didn't burst earlier. I actually worked in mortgages in 1990 as the first housing crisis hit. The amount of repossessions were incredible! Back then, interest rates were 15%. So, if you currently pay 5% on your £100,000 25-year mortgage, your payments would rise from around £590 per month to £1,290. Could you afford it?

This recession was far deeper but the pain was much less due to plugging money into the economy (low-interest rates and govt debt). That's why these cuts scare me. The economy is government-led. Cutting so fast and deep is just simply the wrong move (just ask the pre-election Lib Dems, the Bank of England or the IMF). And all we achieve is the equivalent of 2p on the basic rate of income tax, i.e. £20 in every thousand. Not too bad when you consider the basic rate was 25% not too long ago.

Oh, and why are cutting debt over 4 years and not the recommended 10? If the election is in 5 years time and we're coming through a terrible time into more prosperous years (and that's a big Osboune gamble - no guarantees), then you may just vote for the current govt. If we're only halfway through a much lesser pain, then you may just be tempted to vote for someone else.

Purely a political gamble.

Edited November 1, 2010 by starchief

[Charles Bannerman]

Example: a socialist government

And when was the last time the UK had one of them? The day before Maggie Thatcher was elected in 1979 I would suggest. I have to say it always raises a bit of a giggle when I see them still singing The Red Flag at Labour Party conferences these days!

[Alex MacLeod]

Starchief, I was referring to shareholders......not earners.

DornochCaley, your support and yearning for that socialist utopia is very commendable but it cant work. Not so long as one person has a capitalist attitude. Oh! and the one thing you failed to mention in your story..........wheres all the fuel coming from to manufacture the bricks and mortar?

[Georgeios]

I blame the snp for the bases being shut and under threat the Tories need all the support they can get n moray is an snp seat, Marham is a Tories seat so they can't afford to lose that, also as Cameron said, "if the snp had there way anyway they'd be flying by the seat of there pants anyway" remember its the British armed forces so if scotland wasnt part of Britain then all mod establishments in Scotland would be closed or moved, hummmm what would I do...

[DornochCaley]

Starchief, I was referring to shareholders......not earners.

DornochCaley, your support and yearning for that socialist utopia is very commendable but it cant work. Not so long as one person has a capitalist attitude. Oh! and the one thing you failed to mention in your story..........wheres all the fuel coming from to manufacture the bricks and mortar?

Believe me, there is no such thing possible as a Socialist Utopia.

What i believe to be a Socialist system which could work does not really reflect that of what i have posted on here.

The system i believe that could work would be no worse for anyone than the current system we are living under. Only problem is, as you said, we are British and will not take risks. We - on the whole - keep to what we know and trust. Shame that system we "Trust" is completely *****.

My Socialism and the Socialism that most on here think about are differnt. The SSP - in Short - believe everything should be free yet they come up with no real way of making up the money to pay for everything. I'm slightly different.

[starchief]

I blame the snp for the bases being shut and under threat the Tories need all the support they can get n moray is an snp seat, Marham is a Tories seat so they can't afford to lose that, also as Cameron said, "if the snp had there way anyway they'd be flying by the seat of there pants anyway" remember its the British armed forces so if scotland wasnt part of Britain then all mod establishments in Scotland would be closed or moved, hummmm what would I do...

Who says there'd be no armed forces in an independent Scotland? What we would have are armed forces here to defend our country without ridiculous foreign adventures abroad. After all, the Rep. of Ireland/Belgium/Denmark/Switzerland/Finland/Canada etc are hardly military free.

Unless you think the Armageddon that was Iraq and all it's fall-out is worth it because you might have to find a job elsewhere. Certainly it isn't for me, plus, from what I've seen, the SNP would make a better fist of the economy than the current Chancellor (oh, for Osborne to be sacked and the intelligence of people to know what they're doing be promoted, namely Ken Clarke and Vince Cable - an absolute dream team of economic knowledge with reliable track records, yet look what's happened to them? Sheer madness!)

And the Tories have argued for a large reduction in military manpower. Hardly the saviour of the armed forces.

By the way, I'm a floating voter - not an SNP man.

[Charles Bannerman]

And the Tories have argued for a large reduction in military manpower. Hardly the saviour of the armed forces.

Nah.. the Tories have got defence sorted now. They're going to put British planes into French aircraft carriers.... which the French are then going to surrender to the Germans at the first sign of trouble.

[starchief]

Remind me, was it Homer or Churchill that once described the French as "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"

[Georgeios]

What aircraft have we got to put in the surrender monkeys carrier? I'm not going to much in to it but our existing mod bases would be stripped we'd need to start from scratch n that would cost us billions, look how making the A9 duel carragway... oh wait that's a tram in the capital, to save lifes.. hummmm that deputy leader also needs to take the hint.

[Alex MacLeod]

And the Tories have argued for a large reduction in military manpower. Hardly the saviour of the armed forces.

Nah.. the Tories have got defence sorted now. They're going to put British planes into French aircraft carriers.... which the French are then going to surrender to the Germans at the first sign of trouble.

Isn't it the other way around. French planes on one of the new carriers.