Dunfermline trouble (Racist issues?)

[PaderbornCaley]

Has the Pars support always had a a hooligan / racist element? I've never noticed it untill this year. They seem to be imploding this season. More arrests in the Pars end yesterday. I'm not sure if it was for racism but they have had people arrested for racist chants already this season.

I'll never forger Gillet being stretchered off at EEP earlier in the season whilst the wee racist corner booed him and made vile comments. They have racially abused Hasseilbaink and of course Tade - and that's not just because he played for Raith Rovers.

Yesterday a Pars fan made a vile racist comment to Tade via twitter. Apparantly the persons account has now been deleted, but i'm sure Twitter can trace the comment and take action if needed.

Of course, Pars fans will point out that it's a minority, but it seems to be a very vocal and growing minority.

[RiG]

I reported the comment to Twitter and hopefully others did as well.

I am sure I read on P & B that some Pars fans had been banned from East End Park due to racist chants / taunts aimed at opposition players.

[tm4tj]

The comments made to Gregory were disgusting and Gregory put him down brilliantly.

You can hide but you will be outed you racist

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000460518688#!/profile.php?id=1518544919

[old caley girl]

So sad to see this was posted by a 16 yr old.Terrible this still goes on in 2012. Dunfermline appear to have a particular problem with this.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Dunfermline only seem to have a problem because the Fife police are actively weeding out these idiots , about time the rest of the Scottish police followed suit.

[Renegade]

I remember watching the 3-3 game on Alba earlier in the season, and every time Tade or Gillet came near the ball, the booing was quite clearly being picked up on the TV. But here's the thing - is this a fairly new phenomenon? I don't recollect hearing this happening at Dunfermline at any previous season, and nor do I remember hearing about any racist abuse during the season in the First Division when Odhiambo and Lionel Djebi-Zadi were on the go. Where have all these racists come from?

[RiG]

Out of interest here is the somewhat bizarre response I received from Twitter regarding the racial abuse of Gregory Tade.

Hello,

While we understand your frustration, the reported behavior is not in violation of the Twitter Rules (http://twitter.com/rules). We have found overwhelmingly that responding to users who are intentionally attempting to aggravate you encourages that user to continue their behavior. We recommend you don’t reply, retweet, comment on their behavior, or instigate them. If you'd prefer not to see content from that person, you can block the user using the blocking feature described here: https://support.twit.../entries/117063

As a policy, we do not mediate content and we do not intervene in disputes between users. This means that users are allowed to post potentially inflammatory content, provided that they do not violate the Twitter Rules. If you’re concerned for your physical safety, please contact your local authorities for further assistance. Please let us know if you believe the behavior has escalated or otherwise violates our rules.

Sincerely,

@BillyPilgrim727

Twitter Trust and Safety

Additional information:

* Dealing with abusive users: https://support.twit.../articles/15794

* Blocking other users: https://support.twit.../entries/117063

* Making your profile protected: https://support.twit...m/entries/14016

Edited January 3, 2012 by RiG

[PaderbornCaley]

I'm astonished that it does not break the twatter rules. It breaks the law FFS!

[Scotty]

So racism doesn't break Twitter rules. That's interesting and definitely worth retweeting ... Going by their own rules, it's not against their policy to do so !!!

...posted via iPhone...

[Scotty]

Yup. Just read through the whole TOS and Rules and no mention of racism whatsoever !!! Just vague references to following local laws.

...posted via iPhone...

[PullMyFinger]

So it's our own police we should complain to who in turn will refer to twitter that the law has been broken in our country? I suppose that's actually anti-censorship so in a way good on them. I don't tweet or I'd follow that up myself.

...posted via dingleberry...

[Renegade]

I think a lot of social media things are like that. Any complaints, irrelevant of what they are, are met with a "ignore it and it'll go away/it's nothing to do with us" kind of attitude - in other words, they just don't care.

[Scotty]

Seems wrong to me !!!!

back in the day, when we were with rivals.net, their lawyers explicitly told us that we had "a duty of care" regarding what was posted on our site. We were not responsible for the actual content, that is always the user, but as the providers of the conduit that allowed those opinions to be published, we were responsible for removing anything that crossed the line in terms of racism or various other '-ism's that might cause offence or be deemed unlawful...... otherwise we could be in legal bother.

seems that both Twitter (and Facebook from what I can tell) do not have clearly defined policies on bigotry, racism, homophobia, or other undesirable and neanderthal behaviours, and basically look the other way unless of course it gains some traction and publicity ..... quite topical given the fact there have been a few arrests in Scotland already due to social media postings and of course the player-player racism incidents in England that have been in the press over the last few weeks.

I just find it incredulous that in 21st century society, two of the biggest platforms for social interaction out there have nothing in place to quickly and effectively deal with this .....

[Scotty]

and if more proof were needed .... http://twitter.com/KKKlan

although, it does have to be said that Facebook has shut down several pages setup by the same 'organisation'.

[ilpadrino]

Yesterday a Pars fan made a vile racist comment to Tade via twitter. Apparantly the persons account has now been deleted, but i'm sure Twitter can trace the comment and take action if needed.

The account hasn't been closed, he's trying to hide, and renamed it a few times (claimed he does this "every week", which is a lie) - it's currently https://twitter.com/#!/markthecunt - although he's deleted the original message.

He also set up https://twitter.com/#!/FastFuse_ today, while considering abandoning his original account.

[RiG]

It deeply concerns me that there are people who are this stupid.

https://twitter.com/...922075034255361

https://twitter.com/...923180807987201

Anyway, if this little racist is to be believed then apparently police are involved in the matter but that seems to be based on the Tweet from Stewart Regan (final link).

https://twitter.com/...918460425015296

As above, it seems that Stewart Regan (Chief Executive of the Scottish Football Association) got involved too.

https://twitter.com/...898538256957442

Edited January 4, 2012 by RiG

[CaleyD]

I did some reading on this last year in relation to something else and the stance they take seems to follow a similar argument to the one which makes hate speech (within certain parameters) a constitutional right in the states.

As that is where these companies are based then some wacko would probably try suing them if they had anything in the T&C's that denied them that right.

[PaderbornCaley]

Glad that Regan has re-tweeted it with that comment, but I think he is making a flippant comment about the police. I don't think he has actually called the police himself. As a matter of fact has anyone? I don't think so and I don't think Tade did either.

The tweet about 'democratic right'... that sound like it comes straight from a BNP manual.

[+DoofersDad]

I've never used twitter or facebook and don't intend to start now. I don't know their rules and whilst I understand the outrage being expressed here, I imagine the situation is not as straightforward as we might think it ought to be. These international networks are, after all, quite different from CTO. They do not focus on a single topic, they have vastly more members and could not possibly hope to have the same level of moderation as we have here. The rules are different of neccessity.

It could be argued that when someone posts something you find offensive and you report it that something should be done about it. In practice, there will not be the resource for that and in any case, just because you may find something offensive does not mean it is not a legitimate point of view. Hence you get the stock reply. Remember, opinions are just that and can change radically over a short period of time. In fact, it is astonishing how quickly attitudes do change and one only has to think about attitudes to race in the USA in particular or to homosexuality in this country to see how attitudes which were openly held by a large minority or even a majority just a few decades ago are now considered so outrageous that we question the right of others to express those views. We may find those view repugnant now but does that give us the right to stop others expressing them? I don't think so. You counter those views by the strength of argument and where such views are voiced just to wind up and offend others then simply ignoring them is the best approach. In that respect, the statement from Twitter is fair enough.

You may then say that you should ban folk who break the law or who incite others to. Again, it is not so straightforward as we might like. There are times when breaking the law is entirely appropriate. For instance, you would not ban someone for suggesting that if you were in your car in a 30mph zone and you saw a tsunami in your mirror approaching at 40mph that you should forget the speed limit and put your foot on the gas. And would you ban folk from Twitter for suggesting that the people in Syria should oppose the regime there? I sincerely hope not.

These are muddy waters and I think what it boils down to is that folk will have accounts closed when their behaviour is seen to be disruptive rather than when they express views which others may find offensive. Freedom of speech is a precious thing and being offended once in a while is the price we pay for that.

So how can you avoid being exposed to these morons and offended by what they say? Simple. Do what I do and stick to CTO.

[PullMyFinger]

Glad that Regan has re-tweeted it with that comment, but I think he is making a flippant comment about the police. I don't think he has actually called the police himself. As a matter of fact has anyone? I don't think so and I don't think Tade did either.

Flippant comment maybe but the wee scrote is crapping himself.

https://twitter.com/...918460425015296

@danieljarvie i will from now on but the head of SF said police are involved so that's the problem

The tweet about 'democratic right'... that sound like it comes straight from a BNP manual.

Cringeworthy, they seem to be thinking that if they get the semantics right they can say what they like without any reprisal. The fact they target a player solely because of the colour of his skin doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

[CaleyD]

Front page of the Inverness Courier today - http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Caley-Thistle-player-target-of-racist-abuse-05012012.htm

[tm4tj]

_{Good to see this being followed up.}

[PaderbornCaley]

I guess I was wrong about Regan not contacting the police then! No one has the 'democratic right' to racially abuse some one. Hope the guy is charged.

[andijag]

The guy is clearly an odious wee ned . As for the idiots on twitter defending him, Deary me

[+Feb82000]

hope the police get him there is a lot of disable people as well get racial abuse online and in town centres them people who do it think they are better than black people and disable people be great if caley thistle do more to have this kind of thing stop