Kelty/ Is this a joke - merged thread

[buckett]

22 minutes ago, Broonerz said:

But they are our kids, schooled in our City and at our club. Would rather watch a poor local team than what in essence is a Fife Franchise.

Exactly!

And a town the size of Inverness, with the whole of the Highlands and Islands in its catchment area, should be able to produce a team of local players able to compete at Division 1, or even Championship level.

 

[STFU]

22 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

The majority of Scottish footballers will not seriously consider relocating to Inverness, certainly not for a mediocre salary and a 1 or 2 year deal. We are therefore fishing in a much smaller pond than our competitors, that is the sad reality.

It was a big enough pond for 20+ years and during times when scouting was much tougher than it is now.  It wasn't easy but we managed it time and again.

Lots of people on here proclaiming that players hate coming here but all you hear from the players who've done it is praise for how great it is/was.

Perhaps the club should have called on them to do some PR. Produce videos selling life as a footballer in Inverness.

All we've done here is say 'life as a footballer in Inverness is so bad we're moving'.  How do you then flip that story if/when we return north?

If those providing the financial backing previously are no longer willing to do so then perhaps because they're fed up of it being p'ssed away on failed get rich quick schemes whilst the club has continued to slide backwards in every area.

If Ross Morrison is £1.4M into it then that's from his own doing and the club/fans should not be the ones to suffer further from his incompetence as a result.  It stinks of decisions being made so he might get his money back instead of what's best for the club.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

2 hours ago, Drake said:

We can finally attract any Central Scotland based player that we can afford.

I would remind you that the first word of the club's name is "Inverness".

I said recently that I hoped to support my home town team for years to come.

This is now simply NOT MY TEAM.

[Drake]

14 minutes ago, buckett said:

Exactly!

And a town the size of Inverness, with the whole of the Highlands and Islands in its catchment area, should be able to produce a team of local players able to compete at Division 1, or even Championship level.

 

The Highlands and Islands may be big, but population wise it is far too small.  If we limit ourselves to only using players from a very very small population pool, then yeah maybe we will feel some sort of Highland identity... but we can carry that on all the way to the Highland League.

[Drake]

9 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

I would remind you that the first word of the club's name is "Inverness".

I said recently that I hoped to support my home town team for years to come.

This is now simply NOT MY TEAM.

Where the first team players train and where they come from is irrelevant.  They are still playing and representing Inverness.  They will still play all their home games in Inverness.  They will be wearing Inverness jerseys.  The youth squad will train in inverness.  The operations will be based in Inverness.  If most fans are content with having local club for local boys only then cracking.  Maybe the club should listen and then put this in place.  But fans have to realise this Highland utopia dream of having Highland only youngsters will lead us to either stagnation in the seaside leagues or worse.  

We cannot attract the main pool of the population North.  So they either don't come and we never see the Championship or Premier again, or we try and do something radical.  

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 minute ago, Drake said:

Where the first team players train and where they come from is irrelevant.  They are still playing and representing Inverness.  They will still play all their home games in Inverness.  They will be wearing Inverness jerseys.  The youth squad will train in inverness.  The operations will be based in Inverness.

They will be a Fife-based team who just happen to play on a pitch in Inverness every couple of weeks.

[Yngwie]

22 minutes ago, STFU said:

It was a big enough pond for 20+ years and during times when scouting was much tougher than it is now.  It wasn't easy but we managed it time and again.

Lots of people on here proclaiming that players hate coming here but all you hear from the players who've done it is praise for how great it is/was.

I don’t think anyone has said that? The ones that are open to it usually enjoy it when they are here, the problem is that most Scottish players don’t want to move north - not the opinion of me or SG, it’s the reality that a succession of ICT managers have stated publicly.

We could help overcome it in the past by offering a shop window and more money than the players could get elsewhere, as well providing accommodation. Not so easy when you are in League 1 and trying to avoid administration.

[Drake]

8 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

They will be a Fife-based team who just happen to play on a pitch in Inverness every couple of weeks.

I am just not seeing it like that.  Yes, literally the first team will be training in Fife.  But youth teams are all still training in Inverness.  Every other department will still be in Inverness.  For logistical and recruitment reasons having the first team train out of the City really doesn't bother me if it helps improve recruitment.  The Club is still in Inverness.

 

I appreciate this is completely different but I have the exact same feeling towards this as I do about Scotland international players playing elsewhere such as England.  John McGinn is based in England and pops up to Scotland every now and again to represent Scotland.  I really don't care.  Similarly, I really don't care where our first team meet up to train either.  They'll come together elsewhere but every Saturday home and away they will be representing us the fans.

[STFU]

14 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

I don’t think anyone has said that? The ones that are open to it usually enjoy it when they are here, the problem is that most Scottish players don’t want to move north - not the opinion of me or SG, it’s the reality that a succession of ICT managers have stated publicly.

We could help overcome it in the past by offering a shop window and more money than the players could get elsewhere, as well providing accommodation. Not so easy when you are in League 1 and trying to avoid administration.

But according to ours and Kelty's statements the plan was there even if we had stayed in the Championship.  So nothing to do with being in League 1.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

6 minutes ago, Drake said:

They'll come together elsewhere but every Saturday home and away they will be representing us the fans.

Think you should have said "me the fan" 

[Yngwie]

13 minutes ago, STFU said:

But according to ours and Kelty's statements the plan was there even if we had stayed in the Championship.  So nothing to do with being in League 1.

I know, one of the many surprising things about this plan is that they wanted to do it even if we stayed up. But the recruitment challenges we are faced with are considerably worse now.

[Starscape]

38 minutes ago, Drake said:

I am just not seeing it like that.  Yes, literally the first team will be training in Fife.  But youth teams are all still training in Inverness.  Every other department will still be in Inverness.  For logistical and recruitment reasons having the first team train out of the City really doesn't bother me if it helps improve recruitment.  The Club is still in Inverness.

 

I appreciate this is completely different but I have the exact same feeling towards this as I do about Scotland international players playing elsewhere such as England.  John McGinn is based in England and pops up to Scotland every now and again to represent Scotland.  I really don't care.  Similarly, I really don't care where our first team meet up to train either.  They'll come together elsewhere but every Saturday home and away they will be representing us the fans.

How did ICT manage to get to the SPL, win the Scottish Cup and qualify for Europe? Just better managers?

[Douglas Mackenzie]

Let's just take stock.ICT is more that a 90 minutes every second weekclub.The club and its history are rooted in Inverness.The players,Manager and coaches are involved around the city even if it just is being visible in the area, visiting schools,clubs and other organisations.They are in and about Inverness all week.Now that they are changing their identity to Kelty Thistle,all this will be lost.

For the last 20 years we managed to produce a promotion winning team.How now are we not able to do that,yes it's a bigger challenge in Div 1,but let's rise to the challenge and keep our identity with players who want to wear the Jersey,who want to reside in the area,who want to be in our community. 

If this was such a brilliant idea why keep it hushed up why not get a feel for what the fans think.The answer:They don't actually care what we think as we are deemed not important.We provide our cash,keep quiet,turn up and let those apparently with best knowledge ruin our club

 

 

 

[old caley girl]

3 hours ago, Drake said:

Wow!  Talk about an over reaction from some of our fans! 

 

We can finally attract any Central Scotland based player that we can afford.  There have been season after season so many players within our budget that will have said no due to location.  Why would a player move himself and his family up here on a semi decent wage but they have to find accommodation etc for family.  We are losing out to teams in Central Scotland with lower budgets than us!  This is a MASSIVE game changer.  

 

I agree it's a shame we have had to do this.  But we no longer have the finances and the appeal of the Premier League to entice players North.  County can still do this due to the fact they are in the Prem (at the time of typing) and have a reasonable amount of financial backing.  We have been propped up financially for years by various folk but the money is dry and the lack of the Premier league means we are losing out.  The lack of fans coming through the gate as well has not helped.

 

Hopefully in a few years the club can relocate to Inverness, but if we have this small team mentality being shown on here and don't go for this, then who will sign for us?  January transfer was a disaster.  If we are to rely only on youth players coming up then we won't get out of this league never mind back to the Prem.  We'd probably be in a relegation scrap down to League 2.

 

So, the way I see it is, that yes this is an unfortunate but necessary move. There's 2 options:

 

Option 1:  The fans get their way.  The club stays.  By remaining Full time and on semi decent wages and based fully in Inverness we get hardly any quality signings and we are on a race to the bottom of no return.  We are patched up by random loan signings, youth and short contracts and all togetherness is lost anyway.  Then part time and bust.

 

Option 2:  The move goes ahead.  We remain full time, give semi decent wages and based in central Scotland.  A fair amount of quality players sign.  Players that would never have considered us before.  Even players from our fellow League 1 rivals will look at it as a bigger move without even moving!  We mount a title challenge and hopefully go up.  Players stay around for longer due to location and we actually get togetherness back!  Eventually promotion back to the Prem and a full relocation to Inverness where quality players will once again be lured North for the chance of playing in the Premier League. 

 

I fully support this as a way to secure the long term future of the club.  As for the youth teams, they can still train and be developed in inverness! I believe that if we had made this move sooner, we would not be in league 1.  We have missed out on so many signings over the years that it's possible that we'd be back in the Premier League by now if we had done this in 2017.  Time will tell if this works, but I say give it a chance and get behind Dunc and the team!

Hiya ScoT or are you Dunc? 

[buckett]

1 hour ago, Drake said:

The Highlands and Islands may be big, but population wise it is far too small.  If we limit ourselves to only using players from a very very small population pool, then yeah maybe we will feel some sort of Highland identity... but we can carry that on all the way to the Highland League.

That old myth!!!

Yes, the Highlands and Islands is big.

Population DENSITY is small. Population is actually pretty big though, by Scottish standards - not far short of quarter of a million, and bigger than Aberdeen, or Dundee.

Throw in Moray and we've got a pretty sizeable catchment area, quite capable, I would hope, of producing 11 half-decent footballers!

 

[Drake]

11 minutes ago, Starscape said:

How did ICT manage to get to the SPL, win the Scottish Cup and qualify for Europe? Just better managers?

Much bigger budgets and cash flow than we have now.  Bigger attendances.  Better economy.  Whilst in the Premier we could lure players North with the incentive of playing in the Premier.   That's how we won the Cup and got Europe.  The recruitment playing fields have never been equal, but the appeal of Premier football on decent wages was.  Pre-2004, we were spending a lot of money on wages.  Attendances were higher than now as well.  Now, the money is not great, yes it's full time wage but still not a great wage, and to get someone to up root and come North for it is just not going to happen.  The realities are that we are not on an equal playing field with most League 1 rivals in terms of recruitment.  If we offer a player a wage of say £1200 per week, and another team in the same league offer £800 there's a high chance the player will pick the smaller wage for logistical, family and even financial reasons.  The cost of uprooting North, finding somewhere to rent etc etc is clearly going to be more expensive than the £400 difference in this scenario.  

[+MrCaleyjag]

6 minutes ago, Drake said:

Much bigger budgets and cash flow than we have now.  Bigger attendances.  Better economy.  Whilst in the Premier we could lure players North with the incentive of playing in the Premier.   That's how we won the Cup and got Europe.  The recruitment playing fields have never been equal, but the appeal of Premier football on decent wages was.  Pre-2004, we were spending a lot of money on wages.  Attendances were higher than now as well.  Now, the money is not great, yes it's full time wage but still not a great wage, and to get someone to up root and come North for it is just not going to happen.  The realities are that we are not on an equal playing field with most League 1 rivals in terms of recruitment.  If we offer a player a wage of say £1200 per week, and another team in the same league offer £800 there's a high chance the player will pick the smaller wage for logistical, family and even financial reasons.  The cost of uprooting North, finding somewhere to rent etc etc is clearly going to be more expensive than the £400 difference in this scenario.  

Was this your boardroom pitch?

[Achfary]

This appears to a 'by any-means-necessary' move to get into the Premiership again, where the ends justify the means, for the board.

Livingston, Falkirk, Hamilton, Raith(?), Partick, Queen’s Park, Ayr, Dunfermline, Airdrie, Morton are the competition for players

ICT would need to be paying higher salaries* than these clubs (though in League one, they could 'afford' to take in players not wanted by the above 10, but not in Championship)

Given ICT is not exactly flush, the conclusion must be that some in the club are trying to get ICT back up asap to be able to recoup their investment, without sinking the club and their investments.

Last roll of the dice, and all for their own sake.

*higher because the travelling a player would make at ICT, compared to with other clubs, is significantly more and so it will come down to money

[Starscape]

13 minutes ago, Drake said:

Much bigger budgets and cash flow than we have now.  Bigger attendances.  Better economy.  Whilst in the Premier we could lure players North with the incentive of playing in the Premier.   That's how we won the Cup and got Europe.  The recruitment playing fields have never been equal, but the appeal of Premier football on decent wages was.  Pre-2004, we were spending a lot of money on wages.  Attendances were higher than now as well.  Now, the money is not great, yes it's full time wage but still not a great wage, and to get someone to up root and come North for it is just not going to happen.  The realities are that we are not on an equal playing field with most League 1 rivals in terms of recruitment.  If we offer a player a wage of say £1200 per week, and another team in the same league offer £800 there's a high chance the player will pick the smaller wage for logistical, family and even financial reasons.  The cost of uprooting North, finding somewhere to rent etc etc is clearly going to be more expensive than the £400 difference in this scenario.  

We were offering more money when we were in the division below League One (whatever it was called then)? Maybe we should move lock, stock and barrel to Glasgow if winning is all that matters? Sod the fans. Money is all that is important.

[+MrCaleyjag]

Everyone will have their opinion but for me, the ones defending this decision have been caught hook, line and sinker. Everything that you state as a defence is a regurgitation of the board and previous managers since Foran.

First they have to convince people that there's a problem, make it out worse than it is, push the agenda, repeat, repeat, repeat before convincing you that they have the answer to something that didn't need changed in the first place.

It's of no coincidence to me that we have a manager with central belt historical ties, who from day one spouted about poor home form, constantly on repeat and still will, but yet never questioned. The man before also with central belt historical ties, also spouted the same lines but never questioned. Planting the seed about poor home form but clearly with an underlying meaning.

We hear how difficult it is to attract players up to Inverness, have done since after Foran, on repeat, constantly, the same lines over and over. 

It must be Inverness! By gosh, how didn't I figure it out myself, I feel so stupid having to be told on repeat before I realised.

Dwindling investment, dwindling income, disengagement with the fans, alienation of the local business community, picking fights with local government. It's always been the fault of others, make people believe it's others.

Could it just simply be that those who are in positions of power and decision makers just aren't good enough? 

If this next ridiculous venture fails, who's fault will it be then, will they claim travelling distance is the problem?

The biggest issue in everything is staring us in the face, we all know it, and it falls firmly at the hands of the board.

[Drake]

31 minutes ago, Starscape said:

We were offering more money when we were in the division below League One (whatever it was called then)? Maybe we should move lock, stock and barrel to Glasgow if winning is all that matters? Sod the fans. Money is all that is important.

We went Full time at the start of the 1997/98 season.  Our first season in 2nd Division / League 1.  The seasons before that in 3rd Division / League 2 we may have been part time but there was some serious cash being splashed.  We were even in the position to pay transfer fees.  The quality of the Highland League was much higher then as well.  We could sign the likes of Ian Stewart, Brian Thompson, Mike Teasdale etc etc and they could all do a great job in the bottom two leagues.  Now, the Highland League just isn't producing these types of players.  But yes, I believe we were able to pay higher wages in the early years than we are currently able to do in 2024.  

Less wages, less appeal, higher logistical costs for moving, worse economy and less talent in the Highland League in 2024.  Our competitors have the pick of the best and biggest proportion of the population and can even offer less money and they will still have the upper hand in signing them.  

 

The point is the club aren't moving lock stock and barrel to Glasgow.  Nor, are they offering stupidly high wages.  This isn't about money.  It's about getting the right players in to WIN. 

[+jagster]

I always find it strange that people like drake and charleyfarly or achfary appear out of nowhere to completely try and validate the clubs position new members new posts and try and tell us all that we should accept the clubs point of view   Vested interest I reckon 

[buckett]

I reckon Drake is DUCKing the issue.

[Drake]

Just now, jagster said:

I always find it strange that people like drake and charleyfarly or achfary appear out of nowhere to completely try and validate the clubs position new members new posts and try and tell us all that we should accept the clubs point of view   Vested interest I reckon 

I hate to break it to you that many Caley Thistle fans don't post on here at all.  Many will read, many won't even bother.  But times like this will make more quiet fans like me want to say something.  I have no idea who the other two names are that you mention but i supported Caley and I have supported Caley Thistle since the merger.  My opinion is not less worth than people who type words on a keyboard more often than me.  

[caley1]

It is not even football fans that are up in arms about this it’s Inverness and surrounding area as a whole . Disgusting that this was apparently discussed for weeks before and agreed by board directors. Absolutely shameful to be associated with that . Just wait till it’s confirmed who voted for this nonsense and see how people use your company services in the future . Some Directors have made loads of money through Inverness and surrounding areas . SHORT MEMORIES