Kelty/ Is this a joke - merged thread

[dougiedanger]

Great to see the message board so active again, but where have all these sensible, engaged and knowledgeable supporters been all these years, while SG was ripping the pish out of the club and the daft teuchters he took the fans to be?

[caley1]

2 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

Great to see the message board so active again, but where have all these sensible, engaged and knowledgeable supporters been all these years, while SG was ripping the pish out of the club and the daft teuchters he took the fans to be?

I think a lot of fans are oblivious to how he operates . He thinks he’s clever but clearly nowhere near it . 

[+Fraz]

22 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

Great to see the message board so active again, but where have all these sensible, engaged and knowledgeable supporters been all these years, while SG was ripping the pish out of the club and the daft teuchters he took the fans to be?

Been saying for years he's a *** tbh. From the Pixalot and Fan's Forum debacle it was clear he was useless and didn't want any fan engagement whatsoever. I emailed him after 'bald linesman gate' outlining a bunch of suggestions to improve the offering and the awful commentary. No acknowledgement at all. Emailed re the fans forum, same effect, emailed re family events no reply, emailed re kids Christmas parties, guess what? Only in the last few months have I ever had any kind of reply from Scott Young on the SLO email. 

Hell, fans of various clubs were laughing at us and saying we'd made a massive mistake as he was utterly incompetent wherever he has been (similar to Ferguson). We are generally such a passive support though and even if we spoke up, what avenue would we have? Gardiner set it up so that absolutely everything had to go through him, had no SLO and no present board. Even if we got through to the board they seemed to be besotted by Gardiner for some utterly baffling reason.  

[CaleyCiuin]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Not necessarily.

Some discussions need to stay private until it is time to make them public.  Nature of the beast unfortunately.

 If the trust representatives were - for example - given some privileged info to allay their fears which would allow them to endorse the call to purchase season tickets but might jeopardise the discussions with potential investors if they divulged that info, then staying quiet is absolutely in the best interests of their members. 

However, the longer things go with silence from the ivory towers (or farty towels if you prefer), the harder it is to believe they were not just sold a ‘bill of goods’!! 

You counter your own point!!! What’s the point in telling the Trust, if they dont inform the fan base they claim to represent.? What special right do they have???? They claim to represent the fans , so what they know, the wider  fan base should know. If the Trust fears need to be “allayed” as you claim, then as they represent the fans…… all need to know. Nature of the beast I’m afraid !!!!

Edited Saturday at 09:17 PM by CaleyCiuin

[GaliantGrunt]

I fear the shambles has gone on too long now and if there is to be some sort of new Era for us to look forward to we need to see/ hear whats happening now, immediately!  

[FrontRow]

The old adage of ‘no news is good news’ just isn’t working here. Have we got a goalkeeper yet? 

[+DoofersDad]

1 hour ago, CaleyCiuin said:

You counter your own point!!! What’s the point in telling the Trust, if they dont inform the fan base they claim to represent.? What special right do they have???? They claim to represent the fans , so what they know, the wider  fan base should know. If the Trust fears need to be “allayed” as you claim, then as they represent the fans…… all need to know. Nature of the beast I’m afraid !!!!

Scotty doesn't counter his own point at all.  If the Trust is given some information in confidence, then it has to stay confidential.  That information may well be helpful to the Trust in understanding a particular situation better and therefore be able to offer an opinion on a more informed basis.  If the Trust then goes and puts stuff in the public domain which has been given in confidence, then you can be sure the Trust will again be totally excluded from discussion.

[IBM]

17 minutes ago, FrontRow said:

The old adage of ‘no news is good news’ just isn’t working here. Have we got a goalkeeper yet? 

Have we signed anyone yet?  We haven't got a clue as there is nothing coming from the club 

[CaleyCiuin]

37 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Scotty doesn't counter his own point at all.  If the Trust is given some information in confidence, then it has to stay confidential.  That information may well be helpful to the Trust in understanding a particular situation better and therefore be able to offer an opinion on a more informed basis.  If the Trust then goes and puts stuff in the public domain which has been given in confidence, then you can be sure the Trust will again be totally excluded from discussion.

I’m afraid both he and you fail to understand what a Trust is supposed to represent………….. for clarity, the fans! What gives the Trust any special rights to be given any information in confidence? Moreover, why is it in confidence??? The Trust bang on about open ness and transparency. Do you think what you describe is acting in that interest???  The Trust are not included in any conversation with the Club / Board to the extent of having any effect. Any info they may get might be to pacify some dissenting voices in order to sell season tickets etc. If you are a Trust member, you would do well to remember that.

[dougiedanger]

3 hours ago, Fraz said:

Been saying for years he's a *** tbh. From the Pixalot and Fan's Forum debacle it was clear he was useless and didn't want any fan engagement whatsoever. I emailed him after 'bald linesman gate' outlining a bunch of suggestions to improve the offering and the awful commentary. No acknowledgement at all. Emailed re the fans forum, same effect, emailed re family events no reply, emailed re kids Christmas parties, guess what? Only in the last few months have I ever had any kind of reply from Scott Young on the SLO email. 

Hell, fans of various clubs were laughing at us and saying we'd made a massive mistake as he was utterly incompetent wherever he has been (similar to Ferguson). We are generally such a passive support though and even if we spoke up, what avenue would we have? Gardiner set it up so that absolutely everything had to go through him, had no SLO and no present board. Even if we got through to the board they seemed to be besotted by Gardiner for some utterly baffling reason.  

He seems to have thought of this as a means of getting his dream job at Ibrox, and all of his failed schemes and scams may be seen in that light.

They actually deserve each other.

[dougal]

Why would anyone want to join the trust when that same trust won’t divulge what appear to be important information to its members. 

I would also like to know what the trust do with all the joining fees they have inherited of late with the extra members they allegedly have signed up. 

We have all chastised SG and the club for a lack of transparency but some need to look a lot closer to home. 

The trust need to remember they do not represent the entire ICT fan base and they never will. 

I’ve said it before the Trust remind me of the peoples front of Judea having meetings about meetings. 

Transparency from the club and the trust is paramount now if not it’s going to be too late.

 
 

Dougal


 

 

 

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Two interesting books on Amazon. 'Where's Scot? Is he under the stairs?' ...sorry I meant Spot. And quite interestingly 'In search of Duncan Ferguson....'

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Duncan-Ferguson-Crimes-Footballing/dp/184596392X

Will the press be gathered at Fort George tomorrow?

[buckett]

I don't have an issue with the Trust and I fully approve of what they are trying to do.

I would however question the quality and accuracy of the confidential information the Trust has been given by the club.

[Achfary]

It's totally understandable to want to know what the Trust knows or has learnt.  We are in Fergie time and we are not exactly flush with options! There's so much secrecy and ill-feeling towards the ICT board, 'CEO' and 'manager' it's hardly surprising there's frustration.

But I also dearly want the Trust to play an integral role if there is a new and improved board incoming.  They won't get near any board, ever, if they are seen as a leaky ship. 

Even if - sometime in the future - there was fan representation on the board, they'd not be able to be completely candid, usually out of legal obligations to others, rather than any SG-like desire.

I also imagine any prospective interested parties want to remain anonymous while they make enquiries - so revealing anything might actually be an act against the fanbase?

It's the incumbents on the ICT board, the outgoing CEO and manager that need to speak out.  

59 minutes ago, dougal said:

We have all chastised SG and the club for a lack of transparency but some need to look a lot closer to home. 

False equivalencies are common whenever there's deep negativity.  If you paint everyone negatively, it only benefits the charlatans like Gardiner. I imagine the Trust are similarly displeased about the impasse and timeframe now, but likely have to defer to the terms of those doing some due diligence/fact checking.

10 hours ago, CaleyCiuin said:

What gives the Trust any special rights to be given any information in confidence? Moreover, why is it in confidence??? The Trust bang on about open ness and transparency. Do you think what you describe is acting in that interest???  

CC - It's massively frustrating, definitely, but I guess that if they did divulge, it'd be crossing a line, and would probably only please SG.  

The Trust has (at least) a 10 per cent voting right and so it's very good it is being consulted (and probably not at the invitation of SG).  

In the same way the Wyness Shuffle guys had to bite their tongue (to an extent) with Ross on, the ST likely need to respect the other parties' wishes?  

It's definitely not comfortable - I bet they are feeling uneasy too - but if the Trust are kept at arm's length, then an ill wind blows for all of us, so I'm viewing it positively (but warily).

I see ST as reluctant hostages to fortune, but as a member of ST, I have faith in their decision makers.  I know hope is not a strategy, but as Christine McVie famously sang:

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try

[IBM]

39 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

 

Will the press be gathered at Fort George tomorrow?

Never mind the press we should all go out and see who we have for a team. 

[CaleyCiuin]

3 minutes ago, Achfary said:

It's totally understandable to want to know what the Trust knows or has learnt.  We are in Fergie time and we are not exactly flush with options! There's so much secrecy and ill-feeling towards the ICT board, 'CEO' and 'manager' it's hardly surprising there's frustration.

But I also dearly want the Trust to play an integral role if there is a new and improved board incoming.  They won't get near any board, ever, if they are seen as a leaky ship. 

Even if - sometime in the future - there was fan representation on the board, they'd not be able to be completely candid, usually out of legal obligations to others, rather than any SG-like desire.

I also imagine any prospective interested parties want to remain anonymous while they make enquiries - so revealing anything might actually be an act against the fanbase?

It's the incumbents on the ICT board, the outgoing CEO and manager that need to speak out.  

False equivalencies are common whenever there's deep negativity.  If you paint everyone negatively, it only benefits the charlatans like Gardiner. I imagine the Trust are similarly displeased about the impasse and timeframe now, but likely have to defer to the terms of those doing some due diligence/fact checking.

CC - It's massively frustrating, definitely, but I guess that if they did divulge, it'd be crossing a line, and would probably only please SG.  

The Trust has (at least) a 10 per cent voting right and so it's very good it is being consulted (and probably not at the invitation of SG).  

In the same way the Wyness Shuffle guys had to bite their tongue (to an extent) with Ross on, the ST likely need to respect the other parties' wishes?  

It's definitely not comfortable - I bet they are feeling uneasy too - but if the Trust are kept at arm's length, then an ill wind blows for all of us, so I'm viewing it positively (but warily).

I see ST as reluctant hostages to fortune, but as a member of ST, I have faith in their decision makers.  I know hope is not a strategy, but as Christine McVie famously sang:

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try

I agree there does need to be a more representative fans voice to influence / communicate with those decision makers on the board. I do wonder how the Trust could speak with a unified voice. Does each member get to vote on any given topic?, and what happens to those fans voices that are not part of the Trust? Whilst we all may have the same, similar or differing views, the Trust need to gain trust of those they claim to represent, by acting in a clear, consistent and open manner. Currently it seems that a couple of self appointed individuals have put themselves in a position which suits their interests and needs, I have heard nothing on any wider consultation with fans on any given subject, If the last meeting at the Caley Club is anything to go by. However, the Trust do seem to want our money, whilst keeping some conversations to themselves!!!

[dougal]

We had a supporter on the first ICT board however it was a complete and utter waste of time from memory. 
Outvoted and outnumbered at every decision it was completely fruitless. 
Look I applaud the Trust for trying and I wish them well but having a trust member on the board is not the divine saviour they think it would be. 
The problem is the actual board members in the past and present have never had the clubs best interests at heart. 
It’s all about egos and self interest. Unless the right people step up to become board members we are finished and that is the harsh reality. 
 

Dougal

[Yngwie]

31 minutes ago, Achfary said:

I see ST as reluctant hostages to fortune, but as a member of ST, I have faith in their decision makers.  I know hope is not a strategy, but as Christine McVie famously sang:

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try

She also sang “Tell me lies…” but hopefully that isn’t the case here!

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 hour ago, Achfary said:

I know hope is not a strategy, but as Christine McVie famously sang:

I never did believe in miracles,
But I've a feeling it's time to try

I'll see your McVie and raise you Russ Ballard 

But I don't believe in miracles
I don't believe in miracles
But I thought you might show your face
Or have the grace to tell me where you are

[LisleRightPeg]

I cycled past Fort George on Saturday and Nairn County were training there. Is this a new club affiliate or just doing Tokely a favour?? 

[Achfary]

2 hours ago, CaleyCiuin said:

 I do wonder how the Trust could speak with a unified voice. Does each member get to vote on any given topic?, and what happens to those fans voices that are not part of the Trust? 

The Trust's role is described here and I find their website quite informative, but the board will obviously be best placed to say.  They are looking for at least three new board members by December this year.  The surge of new members and the jolt of the last two months will surely invigorate it further?  

2 hours ago, dougal said:

Look I applaud the Trust for trying and I wish them well but having a trust member on the board is not the divine saviour they think it would be. 

Very fair point - it could easily be tokenistic, credibility is key, and I agree it is not a panacea or silver bullet either, but marginal gains can lead to more.  If the Trust is not being involved at all, it just doesn't bode well for other fan-led stuff.  The amount of rolling back on other fan involvement avenues is noticeable.  So the Trust, with its voting rights, is kind of a proxy.

All told, it is dependent on the calibre of any new ICTFC board and decision making and appointments.  The week ahead will surely bring news?

Edited Sunday at 12:20 PM by Achfary

[+DoofersDad]

1 hour ago, CaleyCiuin said:

I agree there does need to be a more representative fans voice to influence / communicate with those decision makers on the board. I do wonder how the Trust could speak with a unified voice. Does each member get to vote on any given topic?, and what happens to those fans voices that are not part of the Trust? Whilst we all may have the same, similar or differing views, the Trust need to gain trust of those they claim to represent, by acting in a clear, consistent and open manner. Currently it seems that a couple of self appointed individuals have put themselves in a position which suits their interests and needs, I have heard nothing on any wider consultation with fans on any given subject, If the last meeting at the Caley Club is anything to go by. However, the Trust do seem to want our money, whilst keeping some conversations to themselves!!!

The Trust Board is a representative body, democratically elected by its members (with a limited option to co-opt others onto the Board).  Just as your MP doesn't ask all their constituents what they think about all the topics which will be discussed in Parliament, neither can the Trust Board seek the views of all its members on all the topics it raises with or discusses with the club.  What it will do is read what is written on here and other social media channels and talk to people before coming to a collective view.  That view may also be informed by information provided by the Board which is not and cannot be shared publicly.  Clearly, as we don't all agree on everything, people will inevitably disagree with some of the things the Trust says and does.

If members do not like what their elected Board members are doing, they have the power to change the Board.  If members think they can do a better job, then they are perfectly free to put themselves forward for election.

You say you have heard nothing on any wider consultation with fans on any given subject.  Perhaps you should give the Matchday Experience Survey a read.  If that isn't consulting with fans, I don't know what is.

Bear in mind that the Trust's role is carried out entirely by volunteers, who do what they can to represent the fans along with work, family and other commitments.  They do it because they want what is best for the club and because they want the fans voice to be heard.  I can assure you that none of the Trust Board are self appointed individuals, nor are any of them giving up their own time because it suits their interests and needs.

You say you "agree there does need to be a more representative fans voice to influence / communicate with those decision makers on the board", so why then go on to slag off and insult the very people who are giving up their precious free time to do just that?  With every fan who becomes a member of the Trust, the Trust becomes more representative and its voice and influence becomes stronger.  With every member who offers to help out with the Trust be it as a Board member or just helping in some other way, the more the Trust can do in terms of consultation, research, communication, fundraising, collaborative work on projects with the club etc.  

If you want a more representative and effective fans voice, you know what to do.

 

[CaleyCiuin]

11 minutes ago, Achfary said:

The Trust's role is described here and I find their website quite informative, but the board will obviously be best placed to say.  They are looking for at least three new board members by December this year.  The surge of new members and the jolt of the last two months will surely invigorate it further?  

Very fair point - it could easily be tokenistic, credibility is key, and I agree it is not a panacea or silver bullet either, but marginal gains can lead to more.  If the Trust is not being involved at all, it just doesn't bode well for other fan-led stuff.  The amount of rolling back on other fan involvement avenues is noticeable.  So the Trust, with its voting rights, is kind of a proxy.

All told, it is dependent on the calibre of any new ICTFC board and decision making and appointments.  The week ahead will surely bring news?

I have seen the Trusts objectives & aspirations etc before. They don’t quite explain how they will  be democratic & representative as they state in objective 1. Like I stated earlier, is that through an in person show of hands at a meeting or via an online facility? Some of their intents are admirable, but words and actions / mechanisms to make this work, is the detail needed.

[CaleyCiuin]

12 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

The Trust Board is a representative body, democratically elected by its members (with a limited option to co-opt others onto the Board).  Just as your MP doesn't ask all their constituents what they think about all the topics which will be discussed in Parliament, neither can the Trust Board seek the views of all its members on all the topics it raises with or discusses with the club.  What it will do is read what is written on here and other social media channels and talk to people before coming to a collective view.  That view may also be informed by information provided by the Board which is not and cannot be shared publicly.  Clearly, as we don't all agree on everything, people will inevitably disagree with some of the things the Trust says and does.

If members do not like what their elected Board members are doing, they have the power to change the Board.  If members think they can do a better job, then they are perfectly free to put themselves forward for election.

You say you have heard nothing on any wider consultation with fans on any given subject.  Perhaps you should give the Matchday Experience Survey a read.  If that isn't consulting with fans, I don't know what is.

Bear in mind that the Trust's role is carried out entirely by volunteers, who do what they can to represent the fans along with work, family and other commitments.  They do it because they want what is best for the club and because they want the fans voice to be heard.  I can assure you that none of the Trust Board are self appointed individuals, nor are any of them giving up their own time because it suits their interests and needs.

You say you "agree there does need to be a more representative fans voice to influence / communicate with those decision makers on the board", so why then go on to slag off and insult the very people who are giving up their precious free time to do just that?  With every fan who becomes a member of the Trust, the Trust becomes more representative and its voice and influence becomes stronger.  With every member who offers to help out with the Trust be it as a Board member or just helping in some other way, the more the Trust can do in terms of consultation, research, communication, fundraising, collaborative work on projects with the club etc.  

If you want a more representative and effective fans voice, you know what to do.

 

Thanks for that

[old caley girl]

8 minutes ago, CaleyCiuin said:

I have seen the Trusts objectives & aspirations etc before. They don’t quite explain how they will  be democratic & representative as they state in objective 1. Like I stated earlier, is that through an in person show of hands at a meeting or via an online facility? Some of their intents are admirable, but words and actions / mechanisms to make this work, is the detail needed.

I'm a Trust member not a board member. The Trust is regulated by the FCA and for community benefit. A read through the rules might help? 

The Trust holds the fans voting right and thus votes on behalf of members. It is not a supporters club as some think but obviously the larger the membership the more representative of the fanbase it is. As said above the ST did a very comprehensive survey of ALL fans last year. 

If you are a member and not happy then maybe communicate with the board? 

Tbh I hope the fan base stays united as this has worked so far. Sniping at other fans doing their best will only help the dark powers at club