Richie.......

[CaleyD]

I can't believe what I read in the HN....how stupid can you get.  He may never have tested positive for drugs, but someone should have tested him for something after he spoke to that reporter.

[kencar]

Not exactly the way we want the club to be making the headlines now is it  :029:

It'll be interesting to see what ICT do about RH. If this was a first team regular I imagine a harsh reprimand, final warning and fine would be meted out but I suspect he may well be kicked out as he is very much a fringe player these days.

At best he can expect a hefty fine, and either being allowed to leave in January or not have his contract renewed at the end of the season

[Guest freddie4]

Christ on a bike, i wouldn't like to one of CaleyD siblings. He's so black and white he should be supporting St Mirren. A change of name to Rev.CaleyD methinks

[Mee]

Thats the most sensible post I've ever read by IHE  :clapping02: :clapping02: :clapping02:

Lack of stamps due to the postal strike perhaps?  :001: :001: :001:

[The Mantis]

Some of the jokers on this thread aren't fit to call themselves supporters.

And presumably the irony of your own username is lost on you?

[ictchris]

What a savage attack on a player by Sophia. If my interpretation is correct she may be suggesting that his groin injury was caused by the fact that all his other veins had collapsed and that was the only place to inject. Still some of us can speak our own minds and others cant.  :018:

Anyway with ma professional head on : There simply is too much heresay to go one way or another - I wholly doubt that he was a "junkie" or a "druggie" as that indicates habitual long term use to the degree of dependence - he could never have carried that off. It could suggest that he is a "recreational" drug user and taking cocaine out of season could be understood. It could be that he was simply caught out in the atmosphere of a festival and knowing that he would not be tested for some time joined his pals in a line or two. To me it is the latter or the middle and not the last.

His crime is being stupid - and of course many of the feckin hypocrits on this thread have never done drugs or got pished or did something out of character - sneaked a spliff, grafitti, streaked ?

Leave the poor **** alone. He has been done - he has been fined - he has been suspended - is that not enuff ? He may never recover from this but who cares eh !! Give him community service - give him a chance to redeem himself - give him the chance to be an example to others - in adversity.

If he ever pulls an ICT shirt on again - and I hope he feckin does - he will have to deal with his past, the taunts of the away fans and the doubting gazes of many of his own fans.

And yet again - in the aftermath of pages of abuse against Rory and Fraser follows Hart - all Highlanders and ICT through and through - and yet some are deemed above reproach.

FECKIN SHAME ON YOU ALL  -  GOOD LUCK RICHIE HART.  :clapping03: :clapping03: :clapping03:

Good post Johndo.

How about a cheeky Robbie Fowler esque celebration for Richie when he sticks in the winner against the Dons?  :crazy07:

[Guest freddie4]

What a savage attack on a player by Sophia. If my interpretation is correct she may be suggesting that his groin injury was caused by the fact that all his other veins had collapsed and that was the only place to inject. Still some of us can speak our own minds and others cant.  :018:

Anyway with ma professional head on : There simply is too much heresay to go one way or another - I wholly doubt that he was a "junkie" or a "druggie" as that indicates habitual long term use to the degree of dependence - he could never have carried that off. It could suggest that he is a "recreational" drug user and taking cocaine out of season could be understood. It could be that he was simply caught out in the atmosphere of a festival and knowing that he would not be tested for some time joined his pals in a line or two. To me it is the latter or the middle and not the last.

His crime is being stupid - and of course many of the feckin hypocrits on this thread have never done drugs or got pished or did something out of character - sneaked a spliff, grafitti, streaked ?

Leave the poor **** alone. He has been done - he has been fined - he has been suspended - is that not enuff ? He may never recover from this but who cares eh !! Give him community service - give him a chance to redeem himself - give him the chance to be an example to others - in adversity.

If he ever pulls an ICT shirt on again - and I hope he feckin does - he will have to deal with his past, the taunts of the away fans and the doubting gazes of many of his own fans.

And yet again - in the aftermath of pages of abuse against Rory and Fraser follows Hart - all Highlanders and ICT through and through - and yet some are deemed above reproach.

FECKIN SHAME ON YOU ALL  -  GOOD LUCK RICHIE HART.  :clapping03: :clapping03: :clapping03:

Good post Johndo.

How about a cheeky Robbie Fowler esque celebration for Richie when he sticks in the winner against the Dons?  :crazy07:

Yeah, Amen brother IHE, a FAN who wants to stick by the players and the team, a local player at that. Well said.

[CaleyD]

Christ on a bike, i wouldn't like to one of CaleyD siblings. He's so black and white he should be supporting St Mirren. A change of name to Rev.CaleyD methinks

For the record, I have six siblings.  None of us are angels, but we were all brought up to understand that if you broke the rules and got caught then you had to suffer the consequences.

The club have to be careful of whatever precedent they set either way.  As I've said already, whether the club decide he should be punished and allowed to stay or sacked, that should be the end of it and it should not be turned in to some kind of circus act.

If he is a user then it is obviously a recreational thing (for the reasons pointed out by IHE) and therefore he needs no rehab or narcotics anonymous classes, so all this talk of "support" is nonsense.  His comments to the HN show no signs that he is sorry for what he has done, so sending him out to schools or holding him up as some kind of positive example simply serves to insult the intelligence of sensible thinking folk.

In short, allowing him to stay would not put me up nor down provided he was punished by the club.  Allowing him to stay whilst paying for unnecessary rehab and holding him up as some kind of remorseful reformed character and treating him like some kind of victim that shouldn't be punished but revered I would strongly object to.

His comments to the HN will do him far more harm than good, both in regards to his position at ICT and any future position he may have been seeking should he move on (through his own choice or otherwise).

[chris123]

Some of the jokers on this thread aren't fit to call themselves supporters. A long serving ICT player makes a stupid mistake at a music festival and you want him hung, drawn and quartered. Some of these same eedjits have called for us to sign Tony Bullock on previous threads.  :024:

Is it really proportionate to terminate his contract and in all likelyhood end his career? I don't see any sense in that. We lose a good player, he loses his livelyhood, his family suffers etc etc.

I hope common sense prevails here! He's been suspended. If he reacts the right way by going out of his way to make ammends for his mistake then he deserves a second chance.

To be positive for a second, can anybody think of any suggestions as to what he should do at this point to begin to make ammends?

I would suggest that he issue a full public appology to the club, the players, and the fans. That he volunteers for charity work, possibly helping those afflicted by drug abuse. And also accompanies the local anti-drug groups who give talks in schools. All of these, combined with him getting down the gym and training harder than he's ever trained in his life... would be a good start.

Would you expect your own employer to act any differently if your name was splashed about the media, having taken a class a drug. Richie should have thought about what he was doing, I know it was a mistake, and I feel for him, but we have to live with the choices we make, and Richie chose to put his entire career on the line, for what, a 45 minute high?

[ictchris]

Sorry, but I'm also in a job where I would expect the sack if my name ever made the papers for the same reason.

A drugs conviction would kibosh you because I assume you had to pass disclosure?  The only jobs that would result in automatic dismissal for drug related offences are ones that involve being in charge of children/vulnerable people, jobs where you have peoples lives in your hands or operate heavy machinery.  You probably wouldn't be able to get a job like that if you had a possession conviction.  Of course, most contracts of employment will have 'gross misconduct' or 'bringing the company into disrepute' clauses to cover for this.

I doubt there are drugs strong enough that would have enlivened that game at Meadowbank though - just say no kids!

[The Mantis]

All that disclosure stuff was way before my time 

[metalgecko]

Sack him or back him? It's not so easy for the club to sack him because of employment law and ECHR regs. They are basically duty bound to help an employee through a difficult time, i.e encourage rehab or counselling.

But, I would think he has been told even though he may well be allowed to see out the rest of his contract he would have no chance of getting near the first team. He may well think it's best for him to make a fresh start and find another club.

He's off.

[ictchris]

All that disclosure stuff was way before my time 

:015:

Disclosure Scotland are strange.  I know a guy who was knocked back for an admin job in the NHS for being convicted and fined for a punch up from ten years previous but I also know a guy who passed one despite having a conviction for firing an airgun at someone only a few years before.

Btw, I don't just hang around with a bunch of criminals  :023:

[Guest freddie4]

Christ on a bike, i wouldn't like to one of CaleyD siblings. He's so black and white he should be supporting St Mirren. A change of name to Rev.CaleyD methinks

For the record, I have six siblings.  None of us are angels, but we were all brought up to understand that if you broke the rules and got caught then you had to suffer the consequences.

The club have to be careful of whatever precedent they set either way.  As I've said already, whether the club decide he should be punished and allowed to stay or sacked, that should be the end of it and it should not be turned in to some kind of circus act.

If he is a user then it is obviously a recreational thing (for the reasons pointed out by IHE) and therefore he needs no rehab or narcotics anonymous classes, so all this talk of "support" is nonsense.  His comments to the HN show no signs that he is sorry for what he has done, so sending him out to schools or holding him up as some kind of positive example simply serves to insult the intelligence of sensible thinking folk.

In short, allowing him to stay would not put me up nor down provided he was punished by the club.  Allowing him to stay whilst paying for unnecessary rehab and holding him up as some kind of remorseful reformed character and treating him like some kind of victim that shouldn't be punished but revered I would strongly object to.

His comments to the HN will do him far more harm than good, both in regards to his position at ICT and any future position he may have been seeking should he move on (through his own choice or otherwise).

I agree with the fact that rehab etc is a waste of time because by the sound of it he doesn't have a problem.

The crux of this is whether he is of any use to the first team squad and whether it is worth keeping him on. My opinion of this is yes. If it were Wyness who was in his shoes after scoring 20 goals this season i think there is no way the club would 'get rid', on that basis the club are either going to keep him or let him go on a footballing decision. This to me is wrong also. If they get rid of Richie then it sets a president for them to sack every player who gets caught in this situation, and that ain't going to happen.

Give the guy a break FFS, stand by the player for the teams sake, we all want ICT to do well at the end of the day.

[4ize]

end Richie out to schools as a kind of "community service"

and to teach kids about the dangers of drugs and associating with people that do!

I like your style Mrs. PB.

I may be wrong, but wasn't Richie on the fags until fairly recently? There were certainly folk on the old board and elsewhere suggesting he'd a good old nicotine habit - for all I know he still has. And yes, I am going to come out with "that old chestnut" - tobacco would be illegal today if its use weren't so widespread and deliciously taxable. The hysterical anti-smoking lobby, of which there are many on here if I remember the debate on the smoking ban at the stadium, gave it large about breathing other people's smoke. You don't, however, have to snort anyone else's coke.

We're not talking about a performance-enhancing drug, in the way that you might suggest a sprinter or a boxer should be slammed for using steroids or whatever. We're talking about something that gives you a high. Neither the player nor the team gained an advantage (if he used any, had used any in the past or had any intention of using any ever). I'm not saying it's right - it's illegal, end of story - but how is it any different, in sporting terms, to him sparking up in a pub, being caught red-handed and getting fined for breaking that law?

The role model thing is frankly a load of pish. I know nobody who's ever done LSD but at least five who took up guitar to be like Hendrix. You emulate the best characteristics of your role models, the achievements - aye, you may be gutted when they turn out to be mortal but that doesn't mean you follow them in whatever downward spiral they take. If anything, if you've any sense of introspection, you think about what took them there and work out how to avoid it yerself (avoiding fame as a guitarist was a breeze for me  :001:). Anybody's teenage daughters actively planning to rack up a couple of divorces, two kids, a severe haircut and a lost custody battle in the next few years? Probably not, but there will be a fair few with a Britney album.

The club will probably find this a grand chance to remain above opprobium of any sort whilst disposing of a midfielder who never really fit into the returning manager's plans. I've loved watching Richie play over the last season and a half and would like to see ICT give him another go.

[alternative maryhill]

CaleyD, much as I respect your point of view, I can't agree that sending Hart out to schools "insults the intelligence of sensible thinking folk" - in fact, isn't that a slightly insulting dismissal of the people who have tried to give considered counterpoints to your own views on this thread?

My experience in teaching is that a lot of kids have a very negative attitude to heroin use but see cocaine use as comparatively risk-free and a much cooler recreational pastime. Someone in Hart's position might be a valuable resource in teaching them of the danger of "lesser" substances. At the very least, a footballer who has been convicted of cocaine possession might be in a position to disabuse them of the notion that there is little risk involved to career by taking coke (let's face it, even if Hart isn't sacked, he's unlikely to become a first team regular ever again, nor to be signed by anyone above the First Division). His experience might also convince those kids who have serious ambitions to become professional sportspeople that it isn't worth risking even a one-off encounter with any illegal drugs.          

[Guest sophia]

Good one my dear PP, wrong but good!

Freddie. Sorry, too naive by a half. As an aside, nobody should judge somebody on where they come from.

Much as I would like it to be different, RH has not been able to contribute as his early promise would have suggested he should have.

Why do you think this is?

I know all about loyalty and have refused to dismiss an employee in a similar situation (SMEE it?s not as simple as all that) but business is business. Hard but true.

ICT has to be a tight ship.

[Scotty]

My experience in teaching is that a lot of kids have a very negative attitude to heroin use but see cocaine use as comparatively risk-free and a much cooler recreational pastime. Someone in Hart's position might be a valuable resource in teaching them of the danger of "lesser" substances. At the very least, a footballer who has been convicted of cocaine possession might be in a position to disabuse them of the notion that there is little risk involved to career by taking coke (let's face it, even if Hart isn't sacked, he's unlikely to become a first team regular ever again, nor to be signed by anyone above the First Division). His experience might also convince those kids who have serious ambitions to become professional sportspeople that it isn't worth risking even a one-off encounter with any illegal drugs.

sounds like a fair comment - hadn't looked at it in quite that that way .....

[Guest freddie4]

Freddie. Sorry, too naive by a half. As an aside, nobody should judge somebody on where they come from.

Much as I would like it to be different, RH has not been able to contribute as his early promise would have suggested he should have.

Why do you think this is?

I belive he never got a good run in the team since Robbo left, under him he had a good run and played hs best football for the club during some of the clubs best times in the SPL.

Brewsters 1st term he was in and out, and under Christie the midfield changed every week! Nobody should be judged where they are from? Does that mean you want a team full of Romanians? My belife is in a perfect world the team would be succesful with 11 highlanders in the team, we should try our darndest to keep the highland players.

[davieB]

Some of the intolerance exhibited on this thread is quite frightening!!

Richie would probably be better off leaving if the 'support' from a lot of his own teams fans, shown here, is anything to go by.

[CaleyD]

CaleyD, much as I respect your point of view, I can't agree that sending Hart out to schools "insults the intelligence of sensible thinking folk" - in fact, isn't that a slightly insulting dismissal of the people who have tried to give considered counterpoints to your own views on this thread?

My experience in teaching is that a lot of kids have a very negative attitude to heroin use but see cocaine use as comparatively risk-free and a much cooler recreational pastime. Someone in Hart's position might be a valuable resource in teaching them of the danger of "lesser" substances. At the very least, a footballer who has been convicted of cocaine possession might be in a position to disabuse them of the notion that there is little risk involved to career by taking coke (let's face it, even if Hart isn't sacked, he's unlikely to become a first team regular ever again, nor to be signed by anyone above the First Division). His experience might also convince those kids who have serious ambitions to become professional sportspeople that it isn't worth risking even a one-off encounter with any illegal drugs.         

Had Hart positioned himself such that he had shown any remorse for what he had done, then certainly their would be merit in his passing on the lessons learned from the whole experience.  I just think it would be extremely hypocritical to expect parents to allow him to talk to their children when the only thing he seems sorry about is getting caught.

Also, if he was truly sorry and wanted to pass on the lesson, then he could do that whether he was employed by the club or not...or are we expecting him to get paid for doing it?

[CaleyD]

Some of the intolerance exhibited on this thread is quite frightening!!

Richie would probably be better off leaving if the 'support' from a lot of his own teams fans, shown here, is anything to go by.

What should we be supporting exactly?

His right to buy drugs?

His right to possess drugs?

His right to think he is above the law?

His right to do as he pleases without any regard for the consequences?

[4ize]

RH has not been able to contribute as his early promise would have suggested he should have

Bloody ****, how many of us fulfil 'early promise'? Your implication - please don't hide from this - is that Richie's lifestyle has mitigated his performance. Now, that may or may not be the case (as Capecchi notes, we cannot do the appropriate controls), but he's still put in some cracking performances for us over the last couple of years, and the management and the fans have evidently been happy to see them.

[modified here]

For those who'd hang RH or at best sack him: The world you appear to want to inhabit is not one I wish to share. Let me know if you ever have political ambitions, because I believe visa applications take time :-

[Guest freddie4]

Some of the intolerance exhibited on this thread is quite frightening!!

Richie would probably be better off leaving if the 'support' from a lot of his own teams fans, shown here, is anything to go by.

What should we be supporting exactly?

OUR player and OUR team.

[Mee]

Let me know if you ever have political ambitions, because I believe visa applications take time :-

:015: :015: :015: