Youngsters - how long is long enough

[CaleyD]

These games may be meaningless to some but....

They're only meaningless until the person calling them meaningless wants to use them to prove their own point  :004:

[Hiro]

Don't mean to be pedantic but Rory isn't even 22 yet. In fact he's only just turned 21. Plenty of time to come good - IF he works hard enough to make the most of his talent. Although we haven't seen enough of it at 1st team level his performances for the reserves and the fact he's very rated within the Scotland age group setup suggests he can make it. However, like I said he really has to be committed and give everything - and that goes for Vigurs, Sutherland, Wood, Gillespie etc. too.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

McAllister is another Niculae - unfortunately I am referring to the lack of pace and the movement - We will crucify this lad if we expect him to lead the line. But Brew appears to be mesmerised by hin - IMHO I have seen potential in Zander, Wood and Vigurs but I have never seen it in Rory. As I have said before a forward line with Wood, Rooney, Barrowman and possibly Elliott would bring us options and pace.

It is easier to throw the loons up front than in midfield or defence. As with any building - get the foundations rite and ya can afford to take a few chances elsewhere.

[CaleyD]

That's the reason why I think this could very well be the make or break season for Rory in terms of extending his career at ICT, and with it looking like he's going to have guys just as young and less experienced alongside him then it's going to be tough as he could very well find himself as the guy being expected to take the lead up front...certainly at the start of the season.  That's a lot of pressure for a seasoned and prolific scorer, let alone a young lad who's yet to really make a mark on the game.

Looks like I might not have been too far off the mark.....

Clicky Clicky

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Jhesus - It is Marius Niculae reinfeckincarnated.  :011: Still lets hope that Brewster is feckin CC reincarnated - oh **** - but then Shearer will take over - oh **** - Was that a feckin premonition?

[Council Juice]

So Rory scored a hattrick against Helforge (according to that clicky clicky link). Helforge (is this the actual scheduled game or an in between bounce game before todays proper) are probably the best team we've played on tour and have invested heavily in their squad for their promotion push to the danish top flight.

Although there may be a few question marks among some over the quality of their league given Aberdeens win against Copenhagen last season, i personally believe that was a fluke and they have done better against Man U and Celtic at home recently. Have good players like Gronkjaer etc. :024:

I dont know what this score was other than Rory getting 3 and Rooney netting his second tour goal. I'll go check.....

But I think Rory can come good. a record of 2 goals in 44 subs is not great but he might not have the ole gunner or Tor Andre subs attack ability (HE IS NOT NORWEGIAN EITHER - only they can. that is FACT! :023:)

3 in 13 scattered starts isnt that bad given those starts will be over 3 seasons. 1 in 4 but how can anyone achieve a goal knack with 15 games a season max including sub appearances (he's played near 60 total so over 4 seasons he's appeared its about 15 each season)

Thats nothing. He has ability. All our coaches have recognised this. Scotland has recognised this at under 19 and under 21. I've stated before that i hate people booing or slagging of their own team players if their trying and i'll say again - We will not see the benefit of the Rory if some keep bashing him.  :018:

So what is he looks ungainly. Peter Crouch took until the season before last before showing he has a natural knack for goal scoring. Taller players, especially strikers (and he is although not a 6'7 freak but just over 6) always seem to develop later.

He's got my support.

[CaleyD]

If those citing Rory as the next big thing believe that a few people doubting him on a forum is going to result in a crash and burn scenario...how on earth do you expect him to handle the pressure of, possibly, being the man to lead our front line for next season?

Also, let's not forget that the goals he's scored in previous seasons have been when he's had someone more experienced alongside to support him....unless we find a top player willing to come and play here for peanuts then, as per statements made by the club, he's not going to have that support.

Serious question here.....how many goals do people think Rory is worth in the coming season based on him starting every game?

[strathyjags]

Serious question here.....how many goals do people think Rory is worth in the coming season based on him starting every game?

i say 9

[Council Juice]

I think most players are able to take stick and a joke. But when it comes to booing your own - It has happened. As stated before on this site then it will not make the guy play well.

Its the coaches job to get him to play well tell him "go out and show those numpties what you can do and stick it up them!"

Encourage him that when he does play well to let the supporters who bash him know it ie the hand to ear celebration.

But i think he can, if all goes well, get around 10 goals this season. All i'm saying is if the coaches who've played football as a career all their life or been involved and that includes national coaches too rate him then why do the fans not who lets face it, most, only think they know.

[Harry Chibber]

If those citing Rory as the next big thing believe that a few people doubting him on a forum is going to result in a crash and burn scenario...how on earth do you expect him to handle the pressure of, possibly, being the man to lead our front line for next season?

Do you think it helps??  He's a young lad that has had to put up with dogs abuse on here since the start of his professional career by the people who should, more than anyone, want him to succeed.  If he does have an excellent season I really couldn't blame him if he moved to another club and stuck 2 fingers up at our 'supporters'. 

Also, let's not forget that the goals he's scored in previous seasons have been when he's had someone more experienced alongside to support him....unless we find a top player willing to come and play here for peanuts then, as per statements made by the club, he's not going to have that support.

Serious question here.....how many goals do people think Rory is worth in the coming season based on him starting every game?

More than Niculae did

[alternative maryhill]

No-one has any real idea how many goals he's worth. But as I've already posted on the "Brand New Strike Force" thread, if Brewster believes in him then he should get him in the team straight away and see how he does. His confidence should be high after pre-season and Aberdeen's defence is looking shonky.

[Harry Chibber]

No-one has any real idea how many goals he's worth. But as I've already posted on the "Brand New Strike Force" thread, if Brewster believes in him then he should get him in the team straight away and see how he does. His confidence should be high after pre-season and Aberdeen's defence is looking shonky.

agreed, get him straight in there and hope that he gets a boost from the confidence that has been shown in him

[CaleyD]

I've not seen any booing of him on this thread....as I pointed out else where, the "before anyone does" stance quite often makes a situation look far worse than it is.

What I have seen is people who have genuine concerns over his ability to step up to the plate this season and do the job which was previously done by one of Wyness, Niculae, Bayne.  I've yet to see anyone defend that with anything other than a "stop getting on his back" or a "he's young and will come good".

Let's be honest here, he's not set the heather on fire in the last 2 or 3 seasons when he's been given the chance (despite scoring regularly in reserves and pre-season), so what makes people all of a sudden think that after a few weeks off and a handful of (meaningless  :tic01: ) pre-season games that he's suddenly going to turn into a 10 goal a season striker?

I'm as desperate as the next person to see Rory and the other youngsters come good...because the outcome for the coming seasons doesn't bare thinking about if they don't.

Harry, do you want to give us a list of the players who you think we are allowed to be critical off and the ones we aren't?  With the possible exception of Alex Macleod, who isn't capable of criticism towards the club, staff or players  :tic01:, there's not a person on this site hasn't been critical of a player at some point or other and had someone disagree with them....you included.

As far as booing the player at matches...I don't condone that, but that's not what we're discussing here.  We're discussing the ability of Rory and the other Youngsters and when they should or should note get their chance and when it becomes time to call it a day when a player isn't making the grade.

As I said above, I think most people in this thread have given justified reasons for their doubts, so it's not as if it's mindless abuse....if you want to give an argument for why you think he will make the grade this season then feel free....I learned as a youngster that standing going "your wrong, your wrong, your wrong, I don't like your view, your wrong your wrong your wrong" doesn't really get you anywhere and you have to give your reasons if you want people to listen and consider an alternative viewpoint.

[Harry Chibber]

I said abuse previously received I didn't mention anyone on this thread... previous abuse and I'll be surprised if you can say you haven't seen any... not to mention the booing at matches which contradicts your first point

If someone has the right to slag off a player or doubt them I am also entitled to my opinion.  Rory is a player I have backed from the start of his career because I can see something there, unfortunately I seem to be one of the few with this opinion. 

I don't see why your taking offence to me sticking up for Rory, I thought previously me and Scotty showed both sides to the arguement without getting tetchy and then you put your point across so I put a counter arguement..... is that not the way a forum works??

somebody has to be wrong about Rory but I think the guy deserves a chance

I do have a rant on occasion and sometimes use this forum as a vent but I am always quick to apologise if Ive been out of line but on this occasion I'm not really sure why your having a go. 

[CaleyD]

I perhaps shouldn't have direct that at you as the point I am trying to make is that just because someone comes away with a line saying "everybody is really negative about" or "the majority of people on this site just moan" it doesn't mean that's actually the case.  It also seems to have become the fashion to label anyone who dares to criticise anything as a moaner or as being negative regardless of whether they have backed up that view with reasoned argument or not.

I was one of those defending Rory over the past couple of seasons as I too thought he had something to offer and was just short of stepping up...he still might.  But their comes a time when you have to wonder just how long you can keep hoping for that and, as yet, we've not seen him perform with anything like the consistency needed for a first team starter....yet here we are with people saying he's going to score 10 goals next season, even Brewster seems to have lost the plot and is touting him as the possible main man for the coming season....again, he might be, and I hope he does....but we've seen no evidence whatsoever that he is capable of it.

You'll get those who will argue that he's bagged a load of goals in pre-season...but he's done that in the past and he's knocked them in left right and centre for the reserves...he never once showed that kind of form in the chances he was given in the first team...nothing like it, so it proves nothing and the concerns people have shown on this thread are wholly justified.  That's not to say he won't step up to the plate and bang in 10+ goals, there's just nothing to show that we should be relying on that and I think Brewster is playing a very dangerous game, and could do both the player and the team a lot of damage if it doesn't pan out.

As to booing him at games....I don't condone that, and I do think it's very likely counter productive, but those who boo him at games are necessarily the same people who are being critical on the forum so to tar them all with the same brush is out of order IMO.

[AJS]

I say give McAllister a good kick up the a**e.  :022:

All you have to do is look at his Bebo to see what sort of lifestyle he lives off the pitch. It's no wonder he's so lazy the amount of alcohol he consumes. It's his make or break season but that run of 10 games he had in 06/07 when Wyness and Dargo were both crocked kind of proved he wasn't up to the task.

The likes of Wood and Vigurs and even Zander haven't seen nearly the same amount of game time as Rory and in my view all three are better players than him.

[Guest WynessLegend]

I say give McAllister a good kick up the a**e.  :022:

All you have to do is look at his Bebo to see what sort of lifestyle he lives off the pitch. It's no wonder he's so lazy the amount of alcohol he consumes. It's his make or break season but that run of 10 games he had in 06/07 when Wyness and Dargo were both crocked kind of proved he wasn't up to the task.

The likes of Wood and Vigurs and even Zander haven't seen nearly the same amount of game time as Rory and in my view all three are better players than him.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Iceman??

More like an Ice Pole.

[Scotty]

that run of 10 games he had in 06/07 when Wyness and Dargo were both crocked kind of proved he wasn't up to the task.

He made 6 starting appearances in 06/07 and the longest run of games was 3 back to back starts.

STARTS

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SUBS APPEARANCES

[attach=1]

sub.gif_thumb

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Fer fecks sake - never mind about the slagging or the positives or support the club or feckin stoopid stats - When has Rory actually impressed in any of his SPL starts - He is a good lower league striker but is away behind Vigurs, Wood and Zander in terms of skill and potential.

Brewster is hanging the poor **** out to dry with our start.

[Council Juice]

I've not seen any booing of him on this thread....as I pointed out else where, the "before anyone does" stance quite often makes a situation look far worse than it is.

Well no one has actually went "boo" :001: on this thread but it HAS happened at matches albeit i think the people on this site are NOT the brainless idiots that do that. Its not needed though.

CaleyD makes a good point. He hasn't stepped up to the mark...yet, but I think Brewster as a fairly clever striker in his day (as well as physical) can get the best out of him with a run of games. Its the only way you can ever find out. Its risky sure but nessesary.

As for his drinking (more than likely on a saturday night after the game - most players get the next day off to recuperate anyway) if it was a problem does anyone not think fitness freak Brewster would come down on him like a tonne of bricks...or with his build a tree :004:

Also to the point of Zander and Vigurs (both midfielders) and wood showing more potential made by some. Would it be fairer to through in guys younger than him who, given a barren run or bad game even, gets the same abuse? He came on for 35 minutes and banged in another hat-trick against a decent side.

Give him his chance and see if he takes it. Does anyone remember Wyness? He took a while to get going but he did it with style.

Sorry if i also appear to jump to his defence but i like to advocate youth players and give them the full support as they will either make it and get the club a good transfer fee or stay and be a legend, or not make it and be released - no harm done.

[Alex MacLeod]

CaleyD, I take umbridge to your tongue in cheek comments against me. I can be as critical as the next when its deserved. i.e Wyness not getting back to form after his injury, Niculae taking too long to show his so called skill, Duncans passing, anyone who cant think for themselves and find it easier to pass back and let the keeper decide. I'll criticise when its deserved.

As for being critical of the club or its staff all I can say there is in all my dealings with any of them I've found nothing to be critical of. When meeting with and chatting to anyone associated with the club I have always been treated respectfully so why should I criticise?

And as for CaleyD, I may disagree with some of his comments but I dont criticise him either, not even when eating and drinking together :blah01:

[absent friend]

To answer the question - how long is long enough? - I think we will all accept that if he is good enough, he's old enough!

This then brings in another area - how long do you wait for a player to develop? - this puts pressure on the backroom staff as and this has already been mentioned above, a salary is being tied up that could be used to bring in another player.

We have waited a long time for Rory and, yes, I do think Brew pushed him too far too early when he was not fit to play with the big boys.    Being pushed too early was highlighted at a game at Pittodrie, very early in his career, Brew shielding the ball just over the half way line and not just telling him where to run to, to receive the pass, but pointing to the very spot, off him, that he wanted Rory to be in, almost embarrassing to watch.  I do think this contrasted the master, able to have time on the ball, shielding it so professionally and still able to give direction, with the apprentice being nudged off it as soon as it came his way.    I hasten to state that this was not, IMO, Rory's fault!

At that time Rory was weak, physically, easily pushed off the ball, but also, as just described, did not have any positional sense, a huge NATURAL requirement for any striker.  He is now more mature physically and lets hope his positioning skills are also more acute.

An area to consider, for the forwards, is that the room they enjoyed up front last season, due to our ex star forward being marked very tightly, will no longer be there and they will have to work for the space, running off the ball more. 

This means that Rory will have to be a more active player this year and will need to also show good positional sense, just to get into the game, in my opinion, should he be selected.

Can he do it?    Lets see - but not for too long! 

[ictchris]

I think that when Rory first nudged his way into the first team squad in 2005, Brewster said he reminded him of Garry O'Connor.  O'Connor had a promising start but took dogs abuse from Hibbees until he came good under Tony Mowbray when he was about the same age Rory is now.

I'm not saying that Rory is as good a player as O'Connor is (I don't expect him to be getting into the Scotland squad or winning a million pound move to the Premiership) but perhaps he can come good.  I really hope he does - it seems that whenever Rory makes a mistake he is absolutely slated by our fans, especially on here, but when certain other players are abysmal they aren't castigated to the same extent.  I recall someone having 'Come in Number 13 you're time is up' as their signature!

I saw him a couple of times in the reserves back in 2004/05 he was excellent - going on runs, attacking the opposition with vigour and being a real #'impact' player.  When I've seen him subsequently for the first team he seems nervous and perhaps puts a lot of pressure on himself.  The best he's ever played for our first team was when he came on for Denzil in the first minute of the league game against Celtic back in 2006 - perhaps at least partially attributable to the fact that he was thrown on pretty much cold with no time to dwell or brood on his game.  Maybe we should just tell him two minutes before every game that he's starting and he'll do a lot better!

Let's hope that he proves the doubters wrong, everyone on this thread will share that sentiment.

[strathyjags]

iam the 1st to admit i have slagged rory off in the past,but also hope he proves me and his many doubters wrong this season,scores a good few and shows his doubters the cupped ear when he scores

[Council Juice]

Brewster seems to have lost the plot and is touting him as the possible main man for the coming season....again, he might be, and I hope he does....but we've seen no evidence whatsoever that he is capable of it.

  That's not to say he won't step up to the plate and bang in 10+ goals, there's just nothing to show that we should be relying on that and I think Brewster is playing a very dangerous game, and could do both the player and the team a lot of damage if it doesn't pan out.

I dont think Brewster is really touting him as the man for next season but moreso giving him a challenge. He said along the lines of "rory could save me a fortune if he keeps up this form" (not an exact quote) This sounds like he is challenging him to go and prove that he doesnt need to spend money on a forward but that he can be the ready made one. Saying that he CAN be the main man is he wants it. Sounds like encouragment.

I think it was a mistake letting Bayne go. He's fairly consistant and always seems to get around 6 a season. He is a hard worker too, even if sometimes he can run around like a headless chicken. But alas he's offski too!