Political Stance

[Oz647]

"Too many think that they worked for their money, so why should they share it. Well they should as it is the RIGHT thing to do."

So let me get this right. I should go out and work my ass off while some scrotebag sits on his ass playing his Xbox. Then at the end of the month when I get paid I should give him some of my wages. :D I'll tell you what DC, I'll be round your place later for the back pay you owe me from the last few years then.

[dead_ball_specialist]

Personally, i feel that during times like the ones we are currently facing, we need a more left Government. Recessions just make the working Class despise the upper classes even more as they have so much money, yet they complain they are losing it, whilst if the Working Class complain, it falls upon deaf ears. Moving towards the left helps collectiveise the population which will reduce the impact of recessions ect. In the current capitalist climate, we will forever be in a cycle of Growth and Recession which will continue until a new system comes into place.

Britain has one of the most conservative mindsets in Europe. Most here are scared of change. They fear it as they think it could impact negatively on their own little lives. They refuse to see the larger picture. They dont think the prospect of Communism for two reasons. Both ending in the result that shows Narrow-mindedness. They look at Communism and believe that because it didnt quite work in Russia, and isn't great in China, it will always be useless.

Rubbish.

Under a reasonable leadership, one which will not abuse the power given, then a diffrent style of Communism could work. On the other side, the British people do not like the idea of the left as it envoles sharing wealth. Too many think that they worked for their money, so why should they share it. Well they should as it is the RIGHT thing to do. Since the days of Thatcher, people have been told its ok to be greedy. Well its not. Greed is Immoral and combating Greed, small doses at a time, can cure not only Britain, but the World. The Capitalist West needs to be brought to justice.

Nowhere is perfect DC, but we have it pretty good in the west. I assume you are still at school (??) you don't know how lucky you are. The average teenager today has so much more than their equivalents even just 20 years ago. Mobile phones, laptops, internet access, satellite tv, more university places than ever before etc. Would you honestly rather live in Cuba? :huh:

Edited December 12, 2009 by dead_ball_specialist

[starchief]

Would you honestly rather live in Cuba? :huh:

Highest standard of literacy in the world and yet still only a developing country.

I don't think a developing country can really be fairly compared to a First World country. When I was growing up, it was always 'would you rather live in Russia' if you were found to be left-wing. Then, Russia became right-wing. Food shortages, oligarchs, high crime, racism etc etc. So don't vote Tory or the UK will end up like Russia? Nonsense. You got to compare like-with-like.

Is your socialism a hard-line totalitarian regime? Then, ok, compare it with the former Soviet Union. But if it's democratic socialism, then it's probably closer to most European countries, such Germany and France for most of their post-war years.

One of the things that gets me is people voting for what the major parties represented 30 or so years ago. Socialists still vote Labour, despite them abandoning their left-wing principles and people still vote Tory for their sound economic sense (record unemployment, interest rates at 15 %, more business failing and bankruptcy than ever before in history, anti-EU). It's like when voters were asked what policies of Sarah Palin they liked

[dead_ball_specialist]

Would you honestly rather live in Cuba? :huh:

Highest standard of literacy in the world and yet still only a developing country.

I don't think a developing country can really be fairly compared to a First World country. When I was growing up, it was always 'would you rather live in Russia' if you were found to be left-wing. Then, Russia became right-wing. Food shortages, oligarchs, high crime, racism etc etc. So don't vote Tory or the UK will end up like Russia? Nonsense. You got to compare like-with-like.

Is your socialism a hard-line totalitarian regime? Then, ok, compare it with the former Soviet Union. But if it's democratic socialism, then it's probably closer to most European countries, such Germany and France for most of their post-war years.

One of the things that gets me is people voting for what the major parties represented 30 or so years ago. Socialists still vote Labour, despite them abandoning their left-wing principles and people still vote Tory for their sound economic sense (record unemployment, interest rates at 15 %, more business failing and bankruptcy than ever before in history, anti-EU). It's like when voters were asked what policies of Sarah Palin they liked

How do you know they have the highest standard of literacy in the world? Because the communist regimes reports say so? Lol, take that with a grain of salt. And what use is literacy if the government tells you what websites and books you can and can't read?

Edited December 12, 2009 by dead_ball_specialist

[Scotty]

How do you know they have the highest standard of literacy in the world? Because the communist regimes reports say so? Lol, take that with a grain of salt. And what use is literacy if the government tells you what websites and books you can and can't read?

Not sure about it being the highest in the world, but having visited the country several times and interacted with the local people as well as watching a number of factual documentaries (Canada has a bit of a fascination for Cuba as it is such a popular holiday destination) I can certainly believe that it will be close to that.

Cubans may not have much, but a couple of things they do have are guaranteed education to university level and the best level of healthcare in the caribbean (some might say in the Americas).

It is a FACT that Cuba has such a surplus of qualified doctors that it sends them all over Latin America as sort of medical ambassadors. It is also a FACT that their access to things like mobile phones and the internet is changing rapidly. The first time we went there both were ridiculously expensve to have and to use - even for "rich" Cubans (or tourists). When we were there last year, things had changed a fair bit and although access may not be as widespread as it is for us, it is slowly getting there due to the relaxation of some formerly strict regulations by Raul.

[starchief]

what use is literacy if the government tells you what websites and books you can and can't read?

Not a lot. But my point was that countries can't be compared when they are not at the same standard of development. What use is democracy in Afghanistan when it's still run by warlords, the election is corrupt and voting can get you killed. But it doesn't mean, get rid of democracy in the UK.

[DornochCaley]

"Too many think that they worked for their money, so why should they share it. Well they should as it is the RIGHT thing to do."

So let me get this right. I should go out and work my ass off while some scrotebag sits on his ass playing his Xbox. Then at the end of the month when I get paid I should give him some of my wages. I'll tell you what DC, I'll be round your place later for the back pay you owe me from the last few years then.

Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip.

Would you honestly rather live in Cuba? :)

Highest standard of literacy in the world and yet still only a developing country.

I don't think a developing country can really be fairly compared to a First World country. When I was growing up, it was always 'would you rather live in Russia' if you were found to be left-wing. Then, Russia became right-wing. Food shortages, oligarchs, high crime, racism etc etc. So don't vote Tory or the UK will end up like Russia? Nonsense. You got to compare like-with-like.

Is your socialism a hard-line totalitarian regime? Then, ok, compare it with the former Soviet Union. But if it's democratic socialism, then it's probably closer to most European countries, such Germany and France for most of their post-war years.

One of the things that gets me is people voting for what the major parties represented 30 or so years ago. Socialists still vote Labour, despite them abandoning their left-wing principles and people still vote Tory for their sound economic sense (record unemployment, interest rates at 15 %, more business failing and bankruptcy than ever before in history, anti-EU). It's like when voters were asked what policies of Sarah Palin they liked

How do you know they have the highest standard of literacy in the world? Because the communist regimes reports say so? Lol, take that with a grain of salt. And what use is literacy if the government tells you what websites and books you can and can't read? :huh:

Are you saying these Communist Governments are any diffrent to some of the ***** that America spreds? This Anti-Communism is fine if you have actuall reason. Though so many people dont have the slightest clue about it. They just listen to the propaganda ***** that comes out of the media and the US.

[Renegade]

I bet Castro's a lovely man.

[Oz647]

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

[DornochCaley]

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

I didnt actually mean that everyone must share everything they have. I really ment that those who have nothing, should be given something. Those who have more than enough, should give.

[DornochCaley]

I bet Castro's a lovely man.

I bet he is.

[Oz647]

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

I didnt actually mean that everyone must share everything they have. I really ment that those who have nothing, should be given something. Those who have more than enough, should give.

I'm sorry but I really can't fathom how you can expect people to go out to work for a living and then give a share of their earnings to someone who has sat on their ass doing nothing. Out of curiosity, what percentage of my earnings would you like me to donate to these needy people?

[Renegade]

I bet Castro's a lovely man.

I bet he is.

:huh:

Oh yeah, I bet you can you can just turn up at his house, and he'll offer cake and chat away for the afternoon. Better not be gay though, or it'll be the firing squad for you.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Renegade

[Johnboy]

Talking about firing squads, what would you suggest would be a suitable punishment for Tony Blair, who took this country into an illegal war with Iraq, having lied to Parliament and his government about the existence of WMD?

The politicians in this country have now become virtually synonymous with lies, greed, corruption and fraud on an unimaginable scale.

Just look at all the expenses fiddles, cash for peerages, paying themselves obscene salaries, etc, etc, etc...

These people are the absolute pits - they are the very dregs of our society....

As Billy Connolly once said : "Don't vote for them, it just encourages them"

He was right - get rid of the whole fecking lot of this blight on our society.

Democracy? Feck off....

Edited December 12, 2009 by Johnboy

[DornochCaley]

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

I didnt actually mean that everyone must share everything they have. I really ment that those who have nothing, should be given something. Those who have more than enough, should give.

I'm sorry but I really can't fathom how you can expect people to go out to work for a living and then give a share of their earnings to someone who has sat on their ass doing nothing. Out of curiosity, what percentage of my earnings would you like me to donate to these needy people?

I didnt say people that do nothing. Did i?! I said those who have nothing. I.e people that work but still dont have much. Or do those people not count. It is those people who keep our society running and whom i think should be respected the way they deserve to be.

[DornochCaley]

I bet Castro's a lovely man. :021:

I bet he is.

Oh yeah, I bet you can you can just turn up at his house, and he'll offer cake and chat away for the afternoon. Better not be gay though, or it'll be the firing squad for you.

Just because he might not like gays does not mean he is not a nice person. You listen to the Media too much.

[starchief]

I didnt say people that do nothing. Did i?! I said those who have nothing. I.e people that work but still dont have much. Or do those people not count. It is those people who keep our society running and whom i think should be respected the way they deserve to be.

I think the term is

"a fair day's wage for a fair day's work"

It's pretty idealistic but it's a good way to start. The current system isn't working. Neither would that, as there are different ways of inspiring people. Some with money. I happen to be an ecologist. It can actually be fairly well-paid depending what you do (although hell of a difficult to get into) but I don't know of a single ecologist that entered the profession for financial gain.

Some of my favourite quotes from Churchill are:

"Democracy is the worst form of government ...........except for all those others" and

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter"

Idealistic but not too bad if you're still at school. Blair was even a socialist then.

[Renegade]

I bet Castro's a lovely man.

I bet he is.

Oh yeah, I bet you can you can just turn up at his house, and he'll offer cake and chat away for the afternoon. Better not be gay though, or it'll be the firing squad for you.

Just because he might not like gays does not mean he is not a nice person. You listen to the Media too much.

:021:

Seriously, this just shows how little you know. Have you seen my reading list? Maybe you should stop this thread now, it's already pretty cringeworthy.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Renegade

[Oz647]

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

I didnt actually mean that everyone must share everything they have. I really ment that those who have nothing, should be given something. Those who have more than enough, should give.

I'm sorry but I really can't fathom how you can expect people to go out to work for a living and then give a share of their earnings to someone who has sat on their ass doing nothing. Out of curiosity, what percentage of my earnings would you like me to donate to these needy people?

I didnt say people that do nothing. Did i?! I said those who have nothing. I.e people that work but still dont have much. Or do those people not count. It is those people who keep our society running and whom i think should be respected the way they deserve to be.

First it's people who have nothing then it's people who don't have much. You'd make a good politician. You still haven't answered my question. What percentage should I be donating to these needy people?

[Guest]

You listen to the Media too much.

And where do you get your information from? Every single thing that is written or broadcast is done through one medium or other. Every opinion and story has a slant and is influenced by a human with political leanings. I defy anyone to show me a piece of political literature which has a truly 100% neutral standpoint. Everything you read or hear is propaganda in one way or another, your job is to see past the shyte and understand what the truth probably is.

[DornochCaley]

I bet Castro's a lovely man.

I bet he is.

Oh yeah, I bet you can you can just turn up at his house, and he'll offer cake and chat away for the afternoon. Better not be gay though, or it'll be the firing squad for you.

Just because he might not like gays does not mean he is not a nice person. You listen to the Media too much.

:021:

Seriously, this just shows how little you know. Have you seen my reading list? Maybe you should stop this thread now, it's already pretty cringeworthy.

Why dont you just stay away from it?

Your Reading list? No, but i would like to hear it.

Mine contains Currently i am reading Che Guevara: A revolutionary Life, Communist Manifesto and To Kill a Mockingbird.

"Right, ok then. I will get all 10 pound a week i earn from ebay as in 16, and i will gradually pay you back......Get a grip. "

I see, so I should share my hard earned money with everybody but you don't have to? Surely the amount or your age is irrelevent? I think it's you who needs to get a grip......on reality.

I didnt actually mean that everyone must share everything they have. I really ment that those who have nothing, should be given something. Those who have more than enough, should give.

I'm sorry but I really can't fathom how you can expect people to go out to work for a living and then give a share of their earnings to someone who has sat on their ass doing nothing. Out of curiosity, what percentage of my earnings would you like me to donate to these needy people?

I didnt say people that do nothing. Did i?! I said those who have nothing. I.e people that work but still dont have much. Or do those people not count. It is those people who keep our society running and whom i think should be respected the way they deserve to be.

First it's people who have nothing then it's people who don't have much. You'd make a good politician. You still haven't answered my question. What percentage should I be donating to these needy people?

How am i to know? Im 16, and i have ideas. Doesnt mean i spend my day trying to work all that stuff out. Im not even going to resort to personal abuse as i dont want this thread being closed. I would like to have a discussion about Politics, but a reasonable discussion.

Edited December 12, 2009 by DornochCaley

[Oz647]

"How am i to know? Im 16, and i have ideas. Doesnt mean i spend my day trying to work all that stuff out. Im not even going to resort to personal abuse as i dont want this thread being closed. I would like to have a discussion about Politics, but a reasonable discussion"

Firstly, nobody's abusing anybody. We are having a reasonable conversation about politics. I would just like to explore your views a bit further.

Secondly, You stated that those who have should give to those who have not. I am merely asking how much we should give. If you have taken the time to arrive at the notion surely you have thought it through enough to have come up with an idea of how much we should be giving.

While we're on this point, at what stage of wealth do you stop being a recipient and start becoming a donor?

PS: Please stop hiding behind the I'm only 16 shyte. You're quick to come up with the spiel but as soon as someone challenges you it's "I'm only 16, how should I know"

Edited December 12, 2009 by Oz647

[DornochCaley]

"How am i to know? Im 16, and i have ideas. Doesnt mean i spend my day trying to work all that stuff out. Im not even going to resort to personal abuse as i dont want this thread being closed. I would like to have a discussion about Politics, but a reasonable discussion"

Firstly, nobody's abusing anybody. We are having a reasonable conversation about politics. I would just like to explore your views a bit further.

Secondly, You stated that those who have should give to those who have not. I am merely asking how much we should give. If you have taken the time to arrive at the notion surely you have thought it through enough to have come up with an idea of how much we should be giving.

While we're on this point, at what stage of wealth do you stop being a recipient and start becoming a donor?

PS: Please stop hiding behind the I'm only 16 shyte. You're quick to come up with the spiel but as soon as someone challenges you it's "I'm only 16, how should I know"

Firstly, i never said anyone was being abused. I was merely saying i will not resort to it as i know thats what you want.

Well you are asking unreasonable things of someone my age.

How about you put some of your views across? Lets see them.

Well, i would take VAT away completely. I would replace it with a small tax on those who earn over a certain amount, Big buisnuesses, Ect. With that i would spread it amongst poorer people who, under circumstances they cant help, do not earn very much. Those not in Work as they just cant be arsed, then that is diffrent.

[Johnboy]

Vat is a huge tax - a massive tax, a huge source of revenue....

You can't take that away and replace it with a small tax on those earning above a certain amount.

It just wouldn't add up.

[DornochCaley]

Vat is a huge tax - a massive tax, a huge source of revenue....

You can't take that away and replace it with a small tax on those earning above a certain amount.

It just wouldn't add up.

Im not disagreeing with you, as tbh, i have probably underestimated VAT. It was just the first Tax that came to my head. But is there proof of how important it is? It would be interesting to see.