League Re-Organisation

[Rasczak]

Please bear with me as this is a long post but I think it gives some points to ponder.

With all the uncertainty over what is happening in Scottish football at the moment, surely this is the time to take the bull by the horns and sort out some re-organisation of the leagues while we are going to be in a state of flux anyway.

Now my take on the Rangers thing is that it now appears likely that the newco is not going to have its application to have the oldco share transferred, however everyone appears to think that this immediately means that and SFL club would be promoted and leave a space in the SFL for newco to apply for. Does that necessarily have to be the case ? Indeed has not John Yorkston said that Dunfermline and possibly Dundee/Falkirk, having set up for Div1 football next season, may not be able to play SPL.

Also with the SFA appeal board reconsidering the case of oldco bringing the game into disrepute, one option they have is to suspend or expel the club. If the newco are looking to hang onto the history then they surely have to take the consequences so they may not even be able to apply for SFL should there be a vacancy.

With that in mind I have thought up a grand plan for the future of the Scottish League system, some points of which have likely been mentioned in various places already I admit. This would take the above points that no-one is promoted from SFL to SPL for season 2012/13 and that the result of the SPF appeal tribunal is a 1 year suspension for Rangers that prevents newco applying for SFL.

Season 2012/13 played in SFL as currently, SPL play as 11 teams with Club 12 games being bye weeks

At the end of this season, the bottom 9 clubs in SFL Div 3 2012/13 relegated to regional leagues, ie Highland League, South of Scotland league, RFC Newco can apply to join a regional league for 2013/14.

2013/14 season;

Amalgamate SPL and SFL

2 Leagues of 16

Top league previous years SPL plus top 5 from SFL Div 1

Second league is other 5 Teams from SFL Div 1, all of SFL Div 2 and winner of SFL Div 3

Top League;

All teams play twice home and away

Champions:-

Top 6 teams after 30 games have play offs to decide Champion and other European places

6th play 3rd home and away

5th plays 4th home and away

Lower placed team remaining plays 1st home and away

Higher placed team remaining plays 2nd home and away

Winners play in league final at neutral ground

Relegation:-

Bottom club relegated to second league

Top 2 clubs from second league promoted

14 and 15th in top league go into play off with 3rd to 6th in second league as for top league champions. Winner of playoffs goes in top league next season, others in second league.

Second League;

Promotion:-

As per relegation for top league

Relegation:-

Bottom club relegated to relevant regional league

Top club from each of 2 regional leagues promoted

14 and 15th in second league go into home and away playoffs with 2nd in each of 2 regional leagues, playoffs winner goes into second league.

Regional leagues may need to be realigned to place teams in correct area.

Regional round robin League Cup

League cup to have North, South, East and West sections and each to draw 2 round robins of 4 clubs to play home and away. Winners of each round robin goes into knockout draw.

Each team in each league therefore gets 15 home league games and 3 home League cup guaranteed.

Potential for 1 or 2 more home games for those teams in playoff positions.

Now I know that this may mean a few less home games for those teams in places 7 to 13 however as the league may be more competitive it may increase attendances at games to overcome this. The larger league also reduces the fear of relegation, so games are played to be won rather than not to be lost, increasing entertainment. Many on here have said that lack of entertainment is one reason for dropping attendances.

I don't expect everyone to agree to all of this, one of my work colleagues has already said to me he doesn't like the play-offs for the top league winner as it means sixth place 20 points down could be champions, but I think it brings an element of the season will always go to the end rather than be settled 5 or six weeks early.

I'll leave the debate on distribution of TV/League sponsorship money to one side just now, suffice to say that it should not be heavily weighted towards one or two teams.

[KennySim93]

Agree with most things here apart from the play-off to decide the champion. Seems a bit unfair that if a clubs wins the league by a clear 8 or 9 points, that if they go out in the play-offs, al the hard work over the whole season will really have been for nothing.

[Alex MacLeod]

Bit unfair on the nine teams being dumped out of the league as well and where's your missing team going.

Drop nine leaves 33. 2x16 = 32.

How about 3 leagues of 16 = pyramid leagues North, East and West

Have a playoff system

Play each other twice

Make league cup a group system 8 groups of six 2 from each to knockout stage. That would produce more than enough games to make up shortfalls.

[Rasczak]

Agree with most things here apart from the play-off to decide the champion. Seems a bit unfair that if a clubs wins the league by a clear 8 or 9 points, that if they go out in the play-offs, al the hard work over the whole season will really have been for nothing.

I see where you are coming from, but under this system the worst they can be is 3rd* and so would still get a European place so it wouldn't be for nothing.

*Winners and runners up are obvious, for those knocked out each round then the higher original league position decides final places between the 2 knocked out that round. So as the league toppers get a bye to the second play off round then 5th and 6th already decided, as they must be the higher of the 2 knocked out if they lose then they are 3rd

[Rasczak]

Bit unfair on the nine teams being dumped out of the league as well

Fair point, and maybe 9 is too many to lose maybe the second league could be 18 or 20 so losing 7 or 5.

and where's your missing team going.

Drop nine leaves 33. 2x16 = 32.

Under the scenario I envisaged there are 30 SFL clubs 11 SPL clubs in season 2012/13 for a total of 41 clubs.

41 - 9 = 32

How about 3 leagues of 16 = pyramid leagues North, East and West

Have a playoff system

Play each other twice

Make league cup a group system 8 groups of six 2 from each to knockout stage. That would produce more than enough games to make up shortfalls.

And so having 48 total senior clubs, giving 7 an opportunity to get in that season ? Well it gives newco the chance to get in should they get a years suspension, but can 48 senior teams be supported, (no pun intended) ?

What do you say to the idea for playoffs for top league champions and Europe ? I did think it would be one of my more controversial ideas, but I based it on the NFL playoffs in American football, and that seems to work going by how well they can promote the Super Bowl.

I think we are in broad agreement though, in that we need;

Bigger leagues.

Playoffs for promotion/relegation in addition to automatic places for all leagues.

Relegation from the bottom tier to, and promotion from regional leagues.

Expanded League Cup with starting with a group stage.

It is the details of how these are achieved that needs some work, and that certainly wouldn't be in place for 2012/13 as some media outlets have been touting. The current situation does give an ideal opportunity to begin the process though.

[Alex MacLeod]

Top place play-offs wouldn't be fair. Two teams fight out all season in expectation of champions league place, which is worth a lot more money than Europa place, only to then be jeoperdised by a play-off.

NFL play-offs are to reach Superbowl. Your introducing play-offs for two competitions.

[CaleyD]

Two top leagues of 16 each and a 3rd Division of 10 to reflect current 42 team setup.

Whilst I agree that Scotland cannot (financially) support 42 senior teams, you can't just dump them on a whim and if you are looking to reduce numbers then it needs to be done properly.

IMO, the ultimate aim should be two leagues of 18 each with regional/pyramid system below that....but it should be a 5 year plan to reach that stage.

The exact nature of play-offs etc is open for discussion...so long as they exist.

Whatever we do, it needs to be kept simple, honest and fair for all.

[Libero]

Two top leagues of 16 each and a 3rd Division of 10 to reflect current 42 team setup.

Whilst I agree that Scotland cannot (financially) support 42 senior teams, you can't just dump them on a whim and if you are looking to reduce numbers then it needs to be done properly.

IMO, the ultimate aim should be two leagues of 18 each with regional/pyramid system below that....but it should be a 5 year plan to reach that stage.

The exact nature of play-offs etc is open for discussion...so long as they exist.

Whatever we do, it needs to be kept simple, honest and fair for all.

I completely agree, would love Scottish Football to follow that format, would do wonders for youth football and would greatly encourage competition (as long as TV money is more equally distributed.

I havent ready the Henry McLeish report, to anyone who has, what are his recommendations on league set up out of interest?

[Rasczak]

Two top leagues of 16 each and a 3rd Division of 10 to reflect current 42 team setup.

Whilst I agree that Scotland cannot (financially) support 42 senior teams, you can't just dump them on a whim and if you are looking to reduce numbers then it needs to be done properly.

IMO, the ultimate aim should be two leagues of 18 each with regional/pyramid system below that....but it should be a 5 year plan to reach that stage.

The exact nature of play-offs etc is open for discussion...so long as they exist.

Whatever we do, it needs to be kept simple, honest and fair for all.

Fair point on just cutting 9 clubs adrift to find other leagues in one season, a five year plan to reduce the total of senior clubs whilst allowing others in does seem to me a good idea. I was just thinking we need to strike while the iron's hot, but I suppose what we need is to have the foundations laid now we have the chance and make sure we do it right.

Are you working along the lines of one or two clubs relegated to regional leagues in the first year and then 1 more relegated than promoted from regional over the next few years, to get the right number, re-aligning the divisions as needed.

My thinking behind the playoff arrangement I suggested was that it would involve more teams and keep the season alive, but also ensuring the best chance of promotion being available as of the two higher league teams in the playoffs, at least one would be relegated. It may not be the simplest way, I do like the SFL playoffs as it is obvious what places are being played for, but is not overly complex either.

[CaleyD]

I hadn't really put too much thought into how we get to where we need to be....but I see the transformation going something like.....

Year 1 - 42 Teams - Restructure to 3 leagues of 14

Year 2 - 40 Teams - Restructure to 12 - 14 - 14

Year 3 - 38 Teams - Restructure to 10 - 14 - 14

Year 4 - 36 Teams - Restructure to Two Leagues of 18

I think the above gives teams time to restructure/adapt without too much of a shock to the system.

Two leagues of 18 also gives the real opportunity to keep things fresh....17 league away days to different locations. Opportunity to factor in 2up/2down with additional play-offs for the next 2 from each league....so up to 4 "new" teams coming up in a season. Similar setup at the bottom end for the lower league with top team from each region going in to a play off with bottom 3 or 4 teams. By creating "real" opportunity for getting in to the upper leagues then you also encourage investment in regional leagues/teams.

What I also think is important is that you can go to TV and Corporate Sponsors with a real plan for the future of Scottish Football and ask them to invest in something positive instead of the shambolic mess and uncertainty that currently exists.

[bauhaus]

I do like the play off systems, but they have something like this in The Netherlands, and I seem to remember one team finishing about 30 points above their play off opponents, having hammered them home and away, and in a cup. Play off was for Europe I think, and they had a player sent off after minutes, and went on to lose. Where would the fairness be if the sending off was a poor decision. I know the create excitement, but should be limited to 4 clubs only, 1 from league above and three from lower, or just the 4 from lower league, like Englishshire.

[The Mantis]

I know it's not been discussed much on here but the SFA have been working with the non-League clubs to try to set up a 'sort of' pyramid.

The HL clubs have all got their licences arranged and there's moves towards a 'Lowland League' with the best from the EOSL and the SOSL plus any juniors who want to get involved. Clubs who don't meet the licensing criteria won't get in.

Being involved with Whitehill I've seen most of the paperwork (including an SFA questionnaire) and the way things are going, clubs are wanting a system where the leagues below the current div 1 are regionalised. Also many clubs, if they commit to the HL/LL, would like the option of staying there even if they win it, as they simply can't afford to be in a league with midweek games away at, for example, Stranraer.

Edited June 28, 2012 by TheMantis

[Doofer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18625293

Interesting read on the bbc website. Glad to see the 1st div clubs standing up for footbal integrity by expressing their disapproval for a newco rangers in the 1st div next season. Why cant the SPL/SFL just do the right thing for once and put rangers in the 3rd div and move one team up a league. This would have happened ages ago had it been any other non OF team in this same situation

[+bughtmaster]

I think we are all jumping the gun here!

News just in............Reorg. of SPL and SFL 1st Div.........To be amalgamated, with a number of play offs at the end of the season to secure top flight places.

Also, alarmingly, Rangers Newco to be given a place in first Div. which would virtually fast track them back to the top flight for season 2013/14

Cannot confirm this as yet but almost certainly it is true.

This makes a mockery of the SPL no vote.

Please confirm what you all hear.

Edited June 28, 2012 by bughtmaster