G20 Death.

[Canada Bob]

CB - Im sorry for my comments, I dont want to get into a personal slagging match with you, I took it too far.

No problem roscoe, we can all get the wrong impression about folks we don't know, the difference is when we realise we may have got it wrong is what we do about it.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Canada Bob

[Glen Mhor]

One aspect of this tragic event which has really surprised me is just how difficult it appears to be able to identify the officers involved. There appears to be no requirement for the riot police to have identifying numbers on their helmets, jackets or shields. This type of sloppiness and laxity would only encourage aggressive and violent officers to attack demonstrators with little chance of identification. It would also appear from the footage shown on Channel 4 News tonight that the officer who struck Mr Tomlinson was wearing a balaclava under his helmet. More like what one would expect in Pinochet's Chile than Brown's London.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Roscoe--Canada Bob is not only a very smart guy but he has paid his dues in and to society over his ninety five years on this planet whereas you have not yet even paid property taxes?

Compared to you he has been around the world ten times whereas you are barely out of nappies. He has taken on high-head-yins and won, a brilliant inventor who has been on the TV Dragon show, his views on the deterioration in the UK on all levels and around the world are acute, visceral and apposite, and he makes an art of backing winners. In addition he is one of the funniest people I have ever met (ask him to relate the story about how he was at the top of the church bell tower when the bell fell down with all it's supports leaving him stranded and he had to climb down the 60 foot rope to escape a death from starvation and loneliness which nearly resulted from me dying from asphyxiation with laughter after he revealed that the bell hit the ground and bounced up ten feet without breaking etc ) and you have the assurance of the Pimpernel family that he is undoubtedly the least boring person I have never met!.

In Canada we also have our problems with police going nuts and there are plenty of negative comments from the public when things go wrong which is sometimess so strong that the sight of the local police chief eating humble pie on the T>V> has become commonplace. Just calm down a wee bit Roscoe and try to be more like a Pimple sponge -see all, hear all and say nowt---isn't that right Bob?

[Renegade]

Rosscoe...Canada Bob is quite entitled to hold his own views on matters. I for one, very much enjoy reading and taking part in more serious debates than just football....as you may when you grow up.

No need to personally attack someone just coz they hold a different view than you, coz al let you into a wee secret.....this is how forums operate. There would be no need for a forum if we all had same opinion, would there!

I am just sharing my opinion as well! I have the opinion that all these serious threads annoy me. I hardly ever read it, but I knew there would be loads of Police bashing in this one which is rather funny to read if im honest.

When I grow up, hahahahahahahaa aye ok.

Just how naieve are you? First you say that the UK government are the best thing since sliced bread and now you reckon once again that the police can do no wrong. When are you going to open your eyes? The world is not a land of milk and honey, I fully expect you to post again with your bully boy tactics and wannabe Bill O'Reilly impressions. But hey, you are predictable after all.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Renegade

[Canada Bob]

Thanks for your comments Rod, Smee et-al, I guess you guys have seen the lighter side of me from time to time...

It's no easy to get your sentiment into a text message, and sometimes comments don't carry with them the sardonic humour intended, that can get you on the wrong side of folks...

My rail against the Government isn't particularly due to their stripe, although I'm no fan of Nu Labour I've voted Tory just the once in 40 odd years. Maybe as we get older we get weary of seeing what they all get away with, and being my own man {a loose canon no afraid to roll across anyones deck}, if I don't like what I see I'll raise my voice against it. Can't think that it ever got me anywhere, but if I'm nothing more than a disuading thorn in the side of those who disrespect the blokes who get up in a morning to go to work for a lifetime, then that'll do for me.

I've seen some joy riding and junketting in my time from Whitehall to Town Hall, but what's being loaded onto the backs of the taxpayers now really does beggar belief. Although it's already pretty bleak and not just in the UK, it looks as though it will get a lot worse before there's any sign of a turn around. For one reason and another that might affect me less than it affects most, but it doesn't anger me any the less seeing what's going on, and its affect on us all.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Canada Bob

[absent friend]

SMEE - I don't think that at all about the Police. I just think that they had the right to do that and i would think that the call was given from the boss's up high to use high level of resistance and be very robust given the way the protesters have behaved in the last 2 weeks.

CB - Im sorry for my comments, I dont want to get into a personal slagging match with you, I took it too far.

But I think that the Police had the right to do what they did, but we can all say what we want but when there is an investigation...the right result will come at the end of it.

Birdog also if you think that everyone in the police tries to protect each other you are very very wrong.

Well in my book poor Roscoe has let his fingers run a wee bit quicker than his brain! HOWEVER, it takes balls to admit your wrong, see above and for that I will let it fade away.

Onto the subject matter, the policeman has come forward, the inquiry has moved onto a higher level and I feel it is an open and shut case. Caught on camera, person moving away from scene, hands in pockets and as remarked upon on here, looks totally laid back, with a total lack of confrontation in his body language.

I hope the policeman gets his just deserts.

To even up the score I feel that the policeman charged and found guilty of the road accident, which killed a girl, whilst pursuing a stolen car, should not be locked up.

Can you now think of the position of the drivers of the emergency service vehicles with this hanging over them? Heart attack victim, our nearest and dearest, sorry we had to stay within the speed limit and we are just too late. A murderer NOT caught because he drove away too quickly from the crime scene and the police had to let him go as they could end up in jail and he, the murderer then carries out another 5 murderer before he is caught!

The drivers are not above the law and must pay for their crimes but due to their work, must not be locked up, with the scum they have helped to put into jail - FOR US!!

.

[Johnboy]

[

To even up the score I feel that the policeman charged and found guilty of the road accident, which killed a girl, whilst pursuing a stolen car, should not be locked up.

Can you now think of the position of the drivers of the emergency service vehicles with this hanging over them? Heart attack victim, our nearest and dearest, sorry we had to stay within the speed limit and we are just too late. A murderer NOT caught because he drove away too quickly from the crime scene and the police had to let him go as they could end up in jail and he, the murderer then carries out another 5 murderer before he is caught!

The drivers are not above the law and must pay for their crimes but due to their work, must not be locked up, with the scum they have helped to put into jail - FOR US!!

.

AF... The car he was pursuing was suspected of having been stolen. The police driver decided to pursue it without putting on sirens, flashing lights etc - that action alone might have given the girl a chance...

He was completely irresponsible and he deserves to be locked up for manslaughter.

[Libero]

Having seen the footage for the first time last night i was amazed to see how the event unfolded. The impression that i took of the event was that the victim was minding his own business, he wasnt looking at the police officers nor was he engaged in dialogue with any of them. The whole scene looked like it was very passive and merely looked like a group of officers heading in one direction and the guy heading in another. Why the police man felt it necessary to knock the man to the floor in a pretty brutal way remains to be seen but now that he has come forward it will be interesting to see what he has to say in his defence.

[PullMyFinger]

He was also driving in excess of 90mph in a built up area (this is from onboard recording in the police car). Sometimes the little fish get caught in the net and the big fish get away.

[absent friend]

He was also driving in excess of 90mph in a built up area (this is from onboard recording in the police car). Sometimes the little fish get caught in the net and the big fish get away.

So, the maximum speed in a built up area for emergency vehicles should be 30mph or 20 is plenty, at times??

I hope the robbers/rapists/ murderers all realise that this is the case and play by the rules and stick to the speed limit to give our guys some help.

Blues and twos, lets alert the baddies that we are behind them at all times and they may cut their speed.

I have not tried to put a case for the driver, I have said do not put him in prison where he will be given a worse time than the said, robbers/rapists/ murderers!!

[PullMyFinger]

He was also driving in excess of 90mph in a built up area (this is from onboard recording in the police car). Sometimes the little fish get caught in the net and the big fish get away.

So, the maximum speed in a built up area for emergency vehicles should be 30mph or 20 is plenty, at times??

I hope the robbers/rapists/ murderers all realise that this is the case and play by the rules and stick to the speed limit to give our guys some help.

Blues and twos, lets alert the baddies that we are behind them at all times and they may cut their speed.

I have not tried to put a case for the driver, I have said do not put him in prison where he will be given a worse time than the said, robbers/rapists/ murderers!!

If you check Johnboys post, he said that they didn't have the blues and twos on, I was merely adding to that the speed that the driver was travelling at. The sirens and lights not only alert criminals but also innocent bystanders and road users that an emergency vehicle is approaching. Travel at speed by all means but public safety is paramount. The speed this driver was travelling at was in excess of any guidelines he will have been given and he has quite rightly had the book thrown at him.

Please send him to Gala Bingo hall with all the other Israelis murderers.

[Johnboy]

Absent Friend :

Have you read any of the reports into this tragic case?

Read This Then tell me why you don't think this guy should receive a custodial sentence.

[PullMyFinger]

Back on topic, it does appear that State Sponsored Terrorism is creeping into our society and we are no better off than the third world countries we have been looking down our noses at for decades. We are living in a Police State with cameras everywhere but the States Police seem to be accountable to no-one even when they are caught bang to rights on their very own cameras.

[absent friend]

Absent Friend :

Have you read any of the reports into this tragic case?

Read This Then tell me why you don't think this guy should receive a custodial sentence.

I've read it and I don' think the guy should get a custodial sentence! I have already given my reason. I feel sure the Daily Express is an excellent organ for unbiased reporting. A day's trial reduced to a dozen column inches, to include photo's.

Who is to say that she would not have staggered out in front of him at 30 mph?

He should have pleaded guilty and said he was fighting the weed/ booze and he would get a few hours Community Service.

Carrying out his duty? - lock him up!!

.

[PullMyFinger]

Since when has it been a policemans duty to drive at excessive speed through the streets to catch someone who may or may not have road tax? Or to take a 16 year old girls life from her?

Yes she might have walked out in front of him at 30 mph but he would have had time to react and she would probably be alive today.

Hang the ba.stard that's what I say.

[absent friend]

Since when has it been a policemans duty to drive at excessive speed through the streets to catch someone who may or may not have road tax? Or to take a 16 year old girls life from her?

Yes she might have walked out in front of him at 30 mph but he would have had time to react and she would probably be alive today.

Hang the ba.stard that's what I say.

I did not realise that he knew it was a tax disc problem! Source? - Sporting Life, this time?

Maybe a 16 year old has more difficulty handling booze, offering little reaction time.

Convict on a probability?

His mam and dad could be hurt after the cost of their wedding.

[FortressICT]

Rosscoe...Canada Bob is quite entitled to hold his own views on matters. I for one, very much enjoy reading and taking part in more serious debates than just football....as you may when you grow up.

No need to personally attack someone just coz they hold a different view than you, coz al let you into a wee secret.....this is how forums operate. There would be no need for a forum if we all had same opinion, would there!

I am just sharing my opinion as well! I have the opinion that all these serious threads annoy me. I hardly ever read it, but I knew there would be loads of Police bashing in this one which is rather funny to read if im honest.

When I grow up, hahahahahahahaa aye ok.

Just how naieve are you? First you say that the UK government are the best thing since sliced bread and now you reckon once again that the police can do no wrong. When are you going to open your eyes? The world is not a land of milk and honey, I fully expect you to post again with your bully boy tactics and wannabe Bill O'Reilly impressions. But hey, you are predictable after all.

I never said the UK government were the best thing since sliced bread at all. I was just making a point that we should all be grateful for what we've got compared to other countries.

When have I said the Police could do no wrong? I think that the guy that killed the women when he was driving a Police Car should be put to prison.

O and Renegade.....what way is the wind blowing today?! :thumb04:

At least the points I make are in decent topics and I don't start crappy ones about WIND!!!

[Alex MacLeod]

Ross

In every walk of life you'll find people who will be overly aggressive. School, work, military, police force, anywhere. As you grow older and wiser you'll learn a lot and see a lot you dont like. Like a lot of people you won't do anything about it though. You'll turn a blind eye.

In the case being discussed the policeman was overly aggressive and his colleagues should have acted against him and not turned a blind eye. Dont you think that if the crowd were likely to make attack on the police at the time the guy was pushed he himself would have seen them and been keen to be out of the way? Dont you also think it likely that this guy may have been feeling unwell when he meandered in front of the police line? That guy didn't show any aggression. He wasn't even facing his attacker. Still the big brave policeman felt it necessary to launch an assault.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Alex MacLeod
changes

[Renegade]

Rosscoe...Canada Bob is quite entitled to hold his own views on matters. I for one, very much enjoy reading and taking part in more serious debates than just football....as you may when you grow up.

No need to personally attack someone just coz they hold a different view than you, coz al let you into a wee secret.....this is how forums operate. There would be no need for a forum if we all had same opinion, would there!

I am just sharing my opinion as well! I have the opinion that all these serious threads annoy me. I hardly ever read it, but I knew there would be loads of Police bashing in this one which is rather funny to read if im honest.

When I grow up, hahahahahahahaa aye ok.

Just how naieve are you? First you say that the UK government are the best thing since sliced bread and now you reckon once again that the police can do no wrong. When are you going to open your eyes? The world is not a land of milk and honey, I fully expect you to post again with your bully boy tactics and wannabe Bill O'Reilly impressions. But hey, you are predictable after all.

I never said the UK government were the best thing since sliced bread at all. I was just making a point that we should all be grateful for what we've got compared to other countries.

When have I said the Police could do no wrong? I think that the guy that killed the women when he was driving a Police Car should be put to prison.

O and Renegade.....what way is the wind blowing today?! :018:

At least the points I make are in decent topics and I don't start crappy ones about WIND!!!

:thumb04:

I rest my case. Petty insults, intelligent use of smileys, whoa the whole shabang. How predictable.

Edited April 10, 2009 by Renegade

[PullMyFinger]

Interesting to note a 2006 BBC article that states "of the 24 unlawful killings of innocents in the last 10 years by police that none have resulted in a conviction".

BBC News

I can't see the government changing this trend unless the public force their hands.

[Johnboy]

I remember the Harry Stanley case very well. It was an absolute outrage that no one was brought to book for that.

I'm rapidly reaching the stage where I would support a public protest in any action they might take to avoid this country going any further down that road towards a police state.

[Dmacca]

Two things that struck me about the video coverage were.

1. The copper who hit him had his face semi covered, is this general protection or is it just coincidence that its him semi disguised who hit out?

2. Were told the guy who got hit was on his way home from work, watch the video he seems to be walking very slow head down (ambling along) looks like he was almost out to get reaction with his hands in pockets so as not to be threatening?

He must have been aware what was going on around him and that there were police officers coming up behind him, or maybe he was in the early stages of stroke?

[PullMyFinger]

His route home had been changed for him on more than one occasion and he was possibly tired after a day at work. I fail to see how he could try to get a reaction by being non threatening. The policeman used unreasonable force on an innocent man because he felt threatened by the whole situation. He is a coward who would probably be a wife beater. That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

[Dmacca]

His route home had been changed for him on more than one occasion and he was possibly tired after a day at work. I fail to see how he could try to get a reaction by being non threatening. The policeman used unreasonable force on an innocent man because he felt threatened by the whole situation. He is a coward who would probably be a wife beater. That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

I have no axe to grind on behalf of the police or the victim, I watched the video the day after the news came out and the points I made were how the situation struck me at the time.

But that copper did seem to have is face covered, the sort of thing you would expect a thug to do.

And if I were the victim and had my wits about me in that situation and I was a totally innocent bystander, Id have turned around and asked the police what the problem was or stood out of their way and appologized for being in the way, or would not have got in the way in the first place.

Of course I was not there at all so I can only guess at what went on.

[Guest birdog]

.

And if I were the victim and had my wits about me in that situation and I was a totally innocent bystander, Id have turned around and asked the police what the problem was or stood out of their way and appologized for being in the way, or would not have got in the way in the first place.

If you turned around to the cop who committed the assault I have little doubt that you would have ended up on your arse quicker than the unfortunate victim did. The victim's body language was of little worse than apathy, turning around to ask the police "what their problem is" would undoubtedly be seen as confrontation. From all reports it would seem that the victim had little chance of "not gotten in the way in the first place" seeing as how his route home was blocked by police on more than one occassion, he was going where he was told to go.

Of course I was not there at all so I can only guess at what went on.