Official ICT Web site

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Just noticed the new official web site - I guess it was launched today was it?

It looks ok - looking forward to see what the new on-line club shop will be like when it is finished.

[RiG]

It's rubbish.

Half the links don't work and there is hardly anything on it at the minute. It has a tired, boring look like all Premium TV sites. I hope someone is working on it on a full time basis as it could be so much better.

The Aberdeen site is quality.

[nude_as_the_news]

Will reserve judgement on the official site for now - there's no content to comment on!

The one thing I'm jealous of on the Aberdeen site is the 'Red TV' section. I really, REALLY, hope we get around to offering a subscription service for match highlights. I'm sure it would pay and, living abroad, I'm desperate to stop saying things like "SOUNDS like Caff played well today" :017:! 

[Scotty]

OK - its launched, and maybe I should be bitter after 12 years of providing the club with a website (both officially and unofficially) ... but you know what, I am not bitter, I am relieved.

The site is being run by the club from the stadium and there is at least 1 member of staff who will be spending considerable time keeping it updated so that should be good. There will be commercial opportunities available and I am told that it is planned to offer both live audio and live video but that will not be until some time in the future. We will continue to supply the club with their club shop for the next month or so at which time they should be ready to launch their own one on the site. It should also not take too long for online ticketing to become available.

I would say - bear with them - they will get there as far as the website is concerned. Anyone who has produced a website will know you do a s***load of work in the background and users dont realise just how much time or effort it takes. It may lack polish right now but I am sure that Fiona and the PTV team will sort that out.

[Guest kingkojak]

The Aberdeen site is quality.

ahem... is RIG  a sheep in disguise? :016:

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Firstly - Scotty and the others who worked so hard on the club's "Official" web-site over the last 12 years - indeed well done for all the hard work and dedication it takes. 

In my opinion I thought the old Sport Network official/unofficial site was extremely successful (and that was purely down to the dedication of those running it - which I don't think was appreciated by everybody who visited the sites over the years) and it became increasingly more popular as the club progressed through the leagues.

Now with the club in the SPL etc they should be running their own web-site and providing the dedicated resources to do it but I like many others will continue to use the Unofficial Sneck site as my main source of information.  I am sure the Official site will improve as it goes forward - It will take a lot of hard work and dedication but at least they have got it up and running and it is a case of 'watch this space'.

The good thing is those that have provided us with sevaral web-sites over the years will be able to concentrate totally on the Sneck site and not have the extra burden of trying to run two sites with two different sets of requirements - that for sure is not easy.

To the new official ICT web-site team - Good luck as there is a lot of hard work required (but you probably know that)

To the Sneck team - thanks again for all the efforts to date - I for one are very grateful especialy when like many others I have been overseas for all of those years

:clapping04:

[RiG]

The Aberdeen site is quality.

ahem... is RIG  a sheep in disguise? :016:

Not a bloody chance!

[CaleyD]

I would echo what Scotty has said.  I've not worked on the site/s anywhere near the length of time he has but for every addition/change/enhancement a person see's at the front end of the site, there are many hours of work go into it in the background.  This site is probably a decent enough example, it took us 1500 hours of work putting it together before it was fit for public viewing/use, and even then (and still now) it is getting constant refinement.

I have been working on the site here practically full-time since the start of the year and have just recently gone back to working full time (in a paid job....lol) and the standing joke was where I was going to find the time to earn a living given the amount of time I was spending on this.  Scotty was also putting in practically full-time hours on the site whilst holding down the job that pays the bills.  So from that standpoint we can appreciate the amount of time the club will need to invest in running the site for themselves and how long it will take them to get fully up to speed.

The club won't get things 100% correct from the off, just like we didn't (and still don't) all that I would ask is that if people are going to criticise, make it constructive.  If you don't like something, say why and say what you would like to see.  Scotty and I receive the occasional criticism, on the whole these are constructive, but you get the odd person who is just out to have a go.  The constructive criticisms/complaints we deal with and work with the person to put things right, the others go straight in the bin.  I think we are pretty open in the issues we have had on the site (and on SportNetwork previously) and it is only with the help of the users that we are able to tweak and improve things, and that will be the same with the new site.  It's not practical or possible for a person to check every link and every feature constantly to make sure they are working so there is a dependency on users to flag up problems.

There will inevitably be a small overlap in features between here and the official site, but we have a pretty decent working relationship with the club and have agreed to try and not step on each others toes.  There was always going to be a time where the site had to split in to it's two main components (official and unofficial) as stuff is far more closely monitored by the powers that be at this level and there are certain things that the club needs to (slightly) distance itself from, like the forums.  On the same note, in order to run a true fans site, we needed to distance ourselves slightly from the club to prevent having to be over zealous with censorship etc.

Scotty carries 12 years of experience with him of running the club and fan site for ICT and I carry a bit of technical knowledge and a couple years experience with the ICT site/s.  The club are aware that they can approach either of us at any time should they need help or advice with anything.  Regardless of what we think of the new Official Site or it's setup or anything like that, we appreciate their need to move off on another road and we both hope that it is everything they hope it will be.

We made the decision to move this site off SportNetwork as we found it was too restrictive in the features we could offer, or we had to find time consuming and laborious work arounds to make stuff fit.  That brings with it a new challenge for us and keeps things from getting stale, it also brings with it the opportunity for us to get more fans involved.  The moderators now have a far bigger range of tools available to them for assisting with the running of the forums and any fan who wants to contribute to the site in any way (stories, match reports, new ideas etc) is more than welcome to approach us with suggestions - to use Scotty's phrase, we want this to be a site "By the Fans, For the Fans" and the more contributions we are getting, the fresher the site remains.  Whereas the site would have concentrated more around just club news in the past, we want to expand that with fan news, articles on fans experiences, what it is like travelling hundreds of miles to see your team play, or what it is like following ICT from overseas, the stories that do the rounds in the pubs and next to the radio as people listen in, what funny/interesting stuff happened to you at last weeks game or a game 20 years ago, a chance to capture some of those memories and to keep them available for fans of the future and for people now to look back on in years to come.

It will take time for us to get where we want to be with the site, and if we are honest, we should never reach where we want to be as the site should continually grow and evolve, but thats half the fun, and it will be the same with the official site.  It will take time for them to catch up to where they should/want to be and from then on it is all about growth and development.  The club have the added pressure of making the site pay and developing it as another income stream for the club through various methods.  On here we said from the outset that everything on this site will remain free and that we would never charge for a general service, and we stand by that.  We do have adverts, but those are there to offset at least some of our costs (webhosting, software licenses, fixtures license, couple beers...lol etc).

I could ramble on all day, but the main point is that running a website is something totally new to the club and it will take them time to grow in to the task, just as it is taking Scotty and I time to learn and grow in to the task of running this site totally free of any fans network site etc.  We will continue to share knowledge and experience with the club if they want/need it and the club will continue to work with us on provision of data etc that we use here.  The sites may have gone separate directions, but that doesn't mean the people behind them aren't still working together and co-operating.  It has not become an "Us and Them" situation, and I hope it never does.

[Guest Gerrit]

the weird thing is that this fan-website shows in google.co.uk first, only much lower comes the official site. Which is quite weird, as usually official sites show up on top... Does the official one have a forum as well or is it just this wonderful place where ICT fans gather?

[Scotty]

the weird thing is that this fan-website shows in google.co.uk first, only much lower comes the official site. Which is quite weird, as usually official sites show up on top... Does the official one have a forum as well or is it just this wonderful place where ICT fans gather?

I am sure the official site will move up the google rankings quickly - the fact that its even in there after only 3 days isnt too bad and because it will be linked to by this site, the BBC the SPL site and countless others, it will soon be in the top couple of spots when users search for ICT related pages !!! You will probably notice that sportnetwork site 14 is still there too - we left there in April  :004:

The official site will not have a forum (the administration of which was one of the most contentious things on the old sportnetwork 'official' site from both the club and the fans viewpoint).

As agreed with the club, they will link to this site for interactive features like forums, chatrooms etc. Similarly, we will not attempt to tread on the club's toes by trying to add things like live audio, video or some of the commercial content they will be providing (text messaging etc) and will set links for these type of things to go to the club site. We have also agreed not to publish official match reports in full until 24 hours after the final whistle but can feature fan reports (if you send them !!). Hopefully, with this type of co-operation in place between the club site and this independent site we can enjoy a close partnership with the club where the fans can have the best of both worlds.

[CaleyD]

There was an article in the Celtic Programme about the new site and the decisions behind them going it alon as it were.  Unfortunately I never realised it was in there until after the match so I don't have a copy.  From what I gather the jist of it was pretty much what Scotty has highlighted as the rationale behind things but I shall have to see if I can lay my hands on a full copy to read it properly.

[Scotty]

would definitely be interested in reading that article

[L_G]

LIVE ONLINE (from Saturday's programme) WITH FIONA MCWILLIAMS

WHY IS THE CLUB HAVING A NEW OFFICIAL WEBSITE?

The club has a great relationship with Scott MacKenzie who has run the previous site so well for the last 10 years particularly impressive considering he has been in Canada for the last four years.  However it was agreed by both parties that it was difficult to have an official website that included a fans forum which is often critical of the club and it's operations.  Scott whilst disappointed at the decision has been very supportive of myself and the work I have been undertaking.  The new arrangements wit PTV give greater opportunity for the club to offer new media services on a commercial basis.

WHO APPROACHED YOU TO PUT TOGETHER THE NEW OFFICIAL ICT WEBSITE?

I've been with the club for nearly three years joining fom Ross County.  I was firstly involved in running the community programme in the local schools and the Hot-shots and then latterly coaching and administrating with the youth teams under the guidance of Danny MacDonald, which was all very enjoyable.  About five months ago I was moved over to the operational side of the business by Mike Smith, Chief Executive.  One of the main roles was to help extend the communication culture within the club both internally and externally.  Also involved with this switch was to help progress the new official club website and also in the meantime put together content on the temporary official site which has been running alongside the unofficial site.

HOW MUCH WORK IS INVOLVED DAILY AND ARE YOU ENJOYING IT?

It varies from day to day, some days are busier than others.  It really depends on what is happening around the stadium and if there are stories breaking or if match reports need to go up for any of the squads that have played. Obviously during pre season things could be quite quiet but at the moment there are always stories to be put together as the start of the season is a busy time for everyone at the stadium.  I am also adminstrating the Centenary Club on behalf of the committee since Charlie took over as manager so that takes up time too.  I am really enjoying both sides and it's been great to learn different sides of the business at the club which can only aid my development for the future.

HOW DO YOU GET INTO IT AT THE MOMENT AND WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE?

As of today we are now live on the official site and it can be reached at www.ictfc.co.uk.  The website is run with premium TV and they are very experienced in the sporting website business.  They also run the SPL, Rangers, Hearts, Newcastle United and over 90 english football league sites.  For the future we will be looking to run audio and video sections for matches and interviews.

WORKING WITH THE CLUB ON A DAILY BASIS MEANS THAT EVERYTHING THAT GOES ONTO THE SITE WILL BE UP TO DATE. THAT MUST BE AN ADVANTAGE?

Yes, it's a huge advantage and it means we can put up stories and information as they are happening.  It's important that I know what is going on in each department at the club so I am aware of something before it happens so that we can tell the fans about it.  It also gives me greater access and insight to stories within the club that are maybe not breaking news but the fans would still like to know about too like the youth information.

WHAT ABOUT MATCHDAYS.  DO YOU PUT A MATCH REPORT ON TO THE SITE AS THE GAME IS HAPPENING?

Yes since the pre-season games against Sheffield United and Ross County I have been putting up match reports both home and away live with the updates going onto the site when something significant happens.  Before the match I will post a preview on the game along with the team line up, then a half time report and full-time report.  Shortly after the final whistle I will also get Charlie's comments on te game and they will do up too.

HOW ARE YOU ENJOYING THAT SIDE OF IT AND ARE THERE ANY DRAWBACKS GOING LIVE?

This side of it has been really enoyable, getting to watch and report on all the matches home and away as part of our job is a major plus for me being a fan of the club.  It's also a really important part of the website so that fans who cannot get to the match but have access to the internet know how the team is getting on up to the minute.  There are a couple of drawacks with going live, firstly things can happen so quickly during matches that you can somethimes miss something or forget who crossed the ball for a goal so you may need to leave part of the build up out of the live report.  To counter this ew put another match report up on a Sunday from club historian Ian Broadfoot which is fully factual and includes the attendance, man of the match etc.  Secondly there maybe technical hitches which may stop me from putting up stuff live as it happens, this actually happened at the recent Aberdeen game when a problem with the mobile networks meant I could only put up a half-time and full-time report but not up to the minute stuff.

HAS THERE BEEN MUCH FEEDBACK FROM THE FANS?

So far there hasn't been much but we haven't realy promoted the fact that we are doing this for games, however with the new site we will be telling people about it and hopefully we will get more feedback then.  The staff at the club have been keeping an eye of the content and they have been telling me whether they think something is good or bad which has been a help to me.  I am still learning as I go along and it's been a steep but enjoyable learning curve so far.

FINALLY.  HOW DO YOU SEE IT PROGRESSING AS THE SEASON GOES ON?

I'd like to think that now we are fully operational with the official site that the fans will use this as their first port of call when looking for the latest unique news on the club.

apologies if there are any typos but I did this in a bit of a rush, for those of you who didn't get a programme on Sunday

[Scotty]

seems fair enough, although the impression is that the fan site no longer exists ..... would have liked to see them mention that it was running independently

[L_G]

You are early on the go today Scotty!!!

Yes I noticed that too.  I have seen a number of comments that they want the official site to be the first port of call for the fans.  I am however pleased that they have a dedicated member of staff responsible to updating the official site, so we might actually have a reasonable resource.  You know only too well that the communication side of things was where there were massive problems. 

Hopefully the sites will work together to provide the fans with an all round service.

[Scotty]

LG - was checking messages etc when having breakfast - up at 5:30am most mornings as I have to leave for work at 7am  :010: :007:

As i briefly mentioned above - I would have liked them to perhaps have mentioned a few salient points in the article regarding this site, but at least what they did mention was - for the most part - correct

MY COMMENTS ON THE ARTICLE

The club has a great relationship with Scott MacKenzie who has run the previous site so well for the last 10 years particularly impressive considering he has been in Canada for the last four years

I have been running an ICT site since July 1994 so thats 12 years, and I moved to Toronto on 15th May 2003 so thats a little over 3 years. I would also have liked them to perhaps have used the expression "existing site at caleythistleonline.com, which will still continue to operate as an authorised but unofficial fan site" instead of saying "previous"

However it was agreed by both parties that it was difficult to have an official website that included a fans forum which is often critical of the club and it's operations.

Totally true. The club were often unhappy about some of the content on the boards, and although they only rarely actually asked for specific postings to be removed, this was because we had already removed some of the worst comments.

Scott whilst disappointed at the decision has been very supportive of myself and the work I have been undertaking.  The new arrangements wit PTV give greater opportunity for the club to offer new media services on a commercial basis.

True. It was inevitable that the 'split' would happen, it was only a question of when. I think the club were actually quite surprised when I readily agreed to it, and equally surprised that myself and CaleyD offered assistance to them 'without strings'. We put the cherry on top of the cake by giving them a temporary site and temporary club shop while the PTV site was being developed and are happy to continue working with them if they need assistance in the future. At the end of the day we are all ICT fans and if we can help the club we will.

The only disappointment we have over the new official site is that the club chose to go with PTV. We could have designed a very similar site that the club could have run from the stadium and which would have allowed them to keep all revenues instead of sharing them with a 'partner'. However, the tie-up with PTV will give them access to some commercial features we could not have hoped to match. The new site will have SMS messaging and various commercial advertising as well as hopefully, somewhere down the line getting access to live audio and video of games (via subscription). I personally look forward to paying for some of these new features when they become available.

One of the main roles was to help extend the communication culture within the club both internally and externally.  Also involved with this switch was to help progress the new official club website and also in the meantime put together content on the temporary official site which has been running alongside the unofficial site.

I dont know what their internal communication is like, but the club's external communication has been going downhill for years. I am delighted that the Chief Exec has seen this as a very important area that needs to be addressed (and - to be fair to him -  he did say this to me in a few phonecalls as well). I would have liked to see them mention in here that it was myself and CaleyD who designed, produced and hosted the temporary official site for the club (as well as the shop) in the full knowledge that it was only going to be used for a few months until PTV site was ready. This makes it sound as if they did it themselves.

As of today we are now live on the official site and it can be reached at www.ictfc.co.uk.

would it have been so difficult to say. The CaleyThistleOnline.com site still operates as a 'fan site at www.......' ?

I am still learning as I go along and it's been a steep but enjoyable learning curve so far.

With an attitude like that she will succeed. I come across many people who think they know it all about how much work or effort it takes to run a site, but if Fiona remembers that she is 'always learning' then she will always succeed. I also hope that she is not too stubborn to consider asking for advice privately from myself or CaleyD if she thinks we can help answer a particular question for her. As fans of the club we will be happy to help as we have already indicated.

MY COMMENTS ON LG's POST

I have seen a number of comments that they want the official site to be the first port of call for the fans

To be fair - it should be !! - The club are FINALLY going in the right direction as far as online presence/content is concerned. I am under no illusion that what I provided them with over the years was far from perfect but then again, I wasnt working on it full time, nor was I getting paid for it so they definitely got value for (no) money  :015: :015: :015: They do have a link to this site in their menu and I would hope that (sometime in the future) they might consider adding links in the odd (big) story to direct users to 'talk about it in the message boards'.

You know only too well that the communication side of things was where there were massive problems. 

Yup. The ONLY time that communication was excellent was when Kenny Cameron, Ken Thomson, Debbie Ross and Les Kidger were liaising with me and the driving force behind that was Kenny who introduced features like the Boardroom Banter series of articles. Kenny was also responsible for getting the ball rolling with a club shop and trying to see if he could get the site developed a little more commercially. The other good thing about Kenny's contribution was that in all my dealings with him his primary concerm seemed to be to get good and accurate information across to the fans in a timely fashion which is what we all wanted. 

At the end of the day, a few people didnt view the site like that. Some seemed scared of 'new technology', some felt I was trying to 'gain power', some were critical that fans 'just wanted to moan' but only a few realised that this new technology was a medium where the club could get their point across to a 'media outlet' that is intrinsically biased in the club's favour ... unlike the press !!! 

Although the last two years have been a nightmare trying to get information out of the club for their own official site (as quite a few know), I am happy to see that Mike Smith has given Fiona the task of working on the new site full time and Fiona seems to be getting content up very regularly at the moment.

Hopefully the sites will work together to provide the fans with an all round service.

Thats the aim. I have been very open to the idea of a separate official site for at least the last two years. many fans told me that the message boards on the official site were too restrictive/censored and the club on the other hand used to wince at some of the comments fearing it might get them in trouble, or that some of the fan 'opinions' were too critical. This was a very uncomfortable position for me in running the site as it was a delicate balancing act and to be honest, I am happy that we now have what amounts to an authorised 'fan site' that will work in tandem with the club's own official site. It means that the fans can have their say and that these opinions do not need to be sanitised or censored (so long as they are within acceptable limits as per our TOS and Site Guidelines) and the club can distance themselves from any comments as its not on an official site.

We will be happy to promote the club's initiatives in making the official site a success - such as promoting their commercial services or directing fans there for services that we will not be providing ... we would hope that once they realise that both sites can work in tandem that they will show some reciprocity. We have also offered the club our assistance should it be required - advice, help, information regarding web design etc

... sorry this has been a bit of a marathon posting, but after 12 years doing this site in various incarnations, I wanted to add my tuppence worth on a subject I think I know a fair bit about !!!

[Guest Bonzo]

Personally, I think the official site is very good - and will get better over time.

It's exactly what ICT needs.

There is still a place for a supporters site like this of course. Most big clubs have official and unofficial sites.

But I totally agree with the Club's view that the winging and negativity which fills supporters forums is not suitable for an official site, which should promote the Club positively at all times.

[Kingsmills]

Are the club not unnecessarily deterring casual visitors requiring formal rigistration to merely view any items ?

[CaleyD]

Are the club not unnecessarily deterring casual visitors requiring formal rigistration to merely view any items ?

Probably, but casual visitors are not really the target market IMO.

One of the key goals of a clubs official site these days is to generate an additional income stream, casual browsers are less likely to click advertising links or register for services.  They also want people to register and provide their details so as they can define their market and adapt advertising and services to suit.

Not a criticism of the site as it makes sound business sense.  Now that they are putting serious resource into the venture they need to cover those costs and hopefully make a bit more on top.

[Guest Fiona]

I am hoping to meet up with Scotty on his travels to Scotland this Friday and given the article in the recent programme against Celtic I felt it was appropriate I replied to his last post.

As it said in the piece this has been a whole new learning curve and experience for myself and I agree that there should have been more said about this site instead of just focusing on the new site.

I would also like to reaffirm how helpful Scotty and Caley D have been to myself with various issues and I know I can always call on them in the future for any help I require.  So thanks guys!  :clapping04:

[Scotty]

Are the club not unnecessarily deterring casual visitors requiring formal rigistration to merely view any items ?

To echo what CaleyD said ... probably, but the casual visitor is not as 'important' as a regular visitor on any site. One of the biggest things on most official sites is the drive to create and develop a viable user database that can be used to market the club and its online (subscription) services to those who are interested ... or to use the online generated database to send out other offers such as season tickets, centenary club etc. This type of data-mining for names/details cannot be done without registration.

[Kingsmills]

No better than what most " junk mail " companies do.

[Scotty]

No better than what most " junk mail " companies do.

True .... but at least on this occasion, the 'junk' mail will be about a subject you at least have a little interest in. Also, when registering, you should have the option to decline offers from third parties or even mailings from the club .....

nobody has mentioned it yet but we also use registration on this site !! - nothing sinister in that either and we wont use (or sell) your info to 3^rd parties .... in our case its because we use your registration and 'rank' to decide what size your attachments can be, how many PMs you can send/receive, which forums you can read or post in, whether you can administer any forums, what parts of the main menu on the left you can see  etc etc etc ....... 

[Johnboy]

Actually that does sound a wee bit sinister..... Can you explain what you mean by "rank" and how you establish one's "rank"..??

[L_G]

Nothing sinister Johnboy.  Your rank is Youth player etc and is identified by your number of posts.  As you move up through the 'ranks' then your privileges increase a bit as Scotty said. Although if somebody just posted a lot of repeat or particularly bad post just to increase their 'rank' this would be noticed by Moderators or Admin and the persons privileges would be decreased rather than increased. 

The good thing about this site is that if someone misbehaves there are many courses of action that can be taken without banning them outright.  Restricted privileges being one of the ways. 

That's my understanding of it anyway.