New Stadium location? (fun thread)

[clacher_holiday2]

Even if we had plenty money to burn and a really good sized site slap bang in the town centre that was unused would it be allowed to be built anyway? Something tells me no.

 

I suspect the same.

 

The more I hear about the merger process and the ambitions and ideas tabled at the time, the more I'm convinced the whole project was hijacked by clueless idiots at each stage.  Especially with regards the stadium design, cost and location.

I wonder if we would have stayed and developed Telford Street had we known a Victoria Park sized site was all that we required?  I don't think the 10,000 seat rule was in place until later but I'm sure somebody will correct me on that.

[clacher_holiday2]

I'm sure staying at Telford Street was never a serious option, not in the face of some blazers 'vision' of the future.

[Renegade]

Think I'm right in saying that Kingsmills Park was originally going to be the home ground of ICT, but was deemed unsafe or something.  Doubt there's enough space to have redeveloped it into a 6,000+ stadium though to be honest.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Renegade

[Charles Bannerman]

 

Even if we had plenty money to burn and a really good sized site slap bang in the town centre that was unused would it be allowed to be built anyway? Something tells me no.

 

I suspect the same.

 

The more I hear about the merger process and the ambitions and ideas tabled at the time, the more I'm convinced the whole project was hijacked by clueless idiots at each stage.  Especially with regards the stadium design, cost and location.

I wonder if we would have stayed and developed Telford Street had we known a Victoria Park sized site was all that we required?  I don't think the 10,000 seat rule was in place until later but I'm sure somebody will correct me on that.

 

CH2... I have to say that your statement is complete rubbish and you clearly speak from the position of a severe lack of knowledge about what happened at the time. We have already discussed stadium location and its limited options earlier in the thread. So given the circumstances behind the choice, obtaining funding was extremely difficult, especially given the planing requirements imposed by HRC (including a £1.3 million road) and that in turn imposed serious constraints on the design. I really don't think you have any clue as to the difficulties which faced the founding fathers of ICT and wonder on what basis of evidence you dismiss them as "clueless idiots"?

Whether or not the 10,000 seat rule was in place in 1994 (it wasn't) is irrelevant, since developing Telford Street on a permanent basis simply wasn't an option. For instance remember (or maybe you don't) that it was even rejected as a venue for the March 1996 Scottish Cup quarter final against Rangers which went to Tannadice.

Renegade, you are absolutely right about Kingsmills Park. The original plan was to play there until the new stadium was ready and to sell Telford Street for which there was a £750,000 offer on the table (it eventually went for £1 million). Kingsmills (the park, not the CTO contributor  ) was duly surveyed by the SFL in the autumn of 1993 as part of their application process and it was on the basis of that temporary home that the club was elected in January 1994. However two other factors intervened. Firstly Kingsmills (where the away dressing room was a standing joke - or would have been if it hadn't been in such a state) was fundamentally unsuitable for the SFL. Secondly the assets wrangle meant that Telford Street wasn't going to be sellable in the foreseeable future, so they decided to use that instead.

[ICTPaisley]

So why couldn't Telford street have been upgraded to division 3 standard? Was it really that much worse than Victoria park at the time?

[bigman]

dwelling on the past we should be looking at the future. I would like to see a new ground within the new university campus.

[CaleyT]

So why couldn't Telford street have been upgraded to division 3 standard? Was it really that much worse than Victoria park at the time?

There was no room to expand, install compliant stands etc. All the land around the ground was already developed.

Edited February 28, 2014 by CaleyT

[Charles Bannerman]

 

So why couldn't Telford street have been upgraded to division 3 standard? Was it really that much worse than Victoria park at the time?

There was no room to expand, install compliant stands etc. All the land around the ground was already developed.

 

A very good point. One long side of the ground was tight on to the Telford Street pavement, the Howden End was equally close to Balnacraig Road and the Distillery End was very close to Comet. As for the stand side, I can't remember whether Howden's nurseries were still there or whether the land at the back of the stand had also been developed.

And let's be realistic about this. Caley had made numerous attempts to get out of Telford Street during the years preceding SFL entry so if it was getting past its HL sell by date, it was never going to be a long term option for the SFL. Even if Telford Street had been persevered with, then when the need came to extend to 6000 seats to get into the SPL in 2004-05 there would have been absolutely no chance.

But I am also glad that I had the experience of watching SFL football at Telford Street for the 2+ years it took to realise the Caledonian Stadium. I still have particularly fond memories of Herchie's 19 minute hat trick v Arbroath in the opening league game, his cup winner v Livingston and the string of high scoring wins in the autumn of 1995, including 6-0 at half time v Albion Rovers before "losing" the second half 1-0, as Pele got his managerial era well and truly under way.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Sacred ground is priceless and should be left in peace. It is the property of Caledonian FC and its memorable history. RIP.

 

Why does this merger thing get raised every so often ?

[buckett]

Yes, I remember that hat-trick v Arbroath too.

 

But the thing I remember most about that game was how little the match-day experience had changed - same strips, same pitch and the same winning margin we Caley supporters were used to!

 

The only major change was the extra thousand or so spectators that turned up, totally confusing my time-keeping and resulting in my missing the first 5 minutes of the game!

 

Happy times indeed.

[Charles Bannerman]

So why couldn't Telford street have been upgraded to division 3 standard? Was it really that much worse than Victoria park at the time?

There are two factors here. Firstly, the provision of a new stadium was part of the bid to the SFL for membership in the last months of 1993 and had to be adhered to. Indeed use of the word "had" is barely appropriate since this component of the bid merely realised what Caley had been trying to do for years. Secondly, I think the founding fathers of ICT did have their sights set rather higher than the Third Division, although precious few may have envisaged SPL football in a decade.

[Charles Bannerman]

Sacred ground is priceless and should be left in peace. It is the property of Caledonian FC and its memorable history. RIP.

 

Why does this merger thing get raised every so often ?

It only seems to have been raised by you in this post. This is a discussion about stadium location and the relevant and valid issue of keeping Telford Street as a possible home from 1994 has been raised. As a result it has been necessary to refer to the early history of the club in relation to this, and to explain why the current site was adopted. The period of time in question coincidentally happens also to cover the merger of Thistle and Caley.Bbut, for instance, you can't stop speaking about the 1940s just because that decade also included the Holocaust.

I would therefore suggest that the most provocative statement in this thread to date is your own reference to "property of Caledonian FC."

[Renegade]

 including 6-0 at half time v Albion Rovers before "losing" the second half 1-0, as Pele got his managerial era well and truly under way.

 

Weirdly, I was reading a football quotes thing last night and that got a mention.  Seemingly after the game, Pele told the players that they "had let the club down"!

[Scotty]

Seem to remember there was a site in Carse which was investigated by Caley as an alternative, pre-merger.

 

Although developed now, it's never been a major retail site and may have been an ideal stadium for Caley had they decided to apply for entry to the Scottish League without merging, with room for expansion and, most important of all, so close to Telford Street Park that nobody would have really noticed any difference in travelling distance.

 

I remember that .... also seem to remember it was never a serious contender because there was a gas storage facility or something similar nearby. Guess its ok for those living on Glendoe Terrace to have that but not for football fans

 

 

 

Even if we had plenty money to burn and a really good sized site slap bang in the town centre that was unused would it be allowed to be built anyway? Something tells me no. Had either Caley or Thistle's ground been kept and radically redeveloped then that's a different story.

 

Thats the solution !!!! Everyone is always banging on about how dilapidated and dead the town centre is now that everyone is shopping on the outskirts of town .... slap a stadium in the middle, get 3000 fans on a matchday and you have already doubled the footfall for the town centre on a typical Saturday  ...  we would have to charge only £1 for everything at the stadium though to fit in with the local plan !

 

  

I can't remember whether Howden's nurseries were still there or whether the land at the back of the stand had also been developed.

 

Howdens was still there

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

Thats the solution !!!! Everyone is always banging on about how dilapidated and dead the town centre is now that everyone is shopping on the outskirts of town .... slap a stadium in the middle, get 3000 fans on a matchday and you have already doubled the footfall for the town centre on a typical Saturday  ...  we would have to charge only £1 for everything at the stadium though to fit in with the local plan !

 

 

There you go Scotty! Rather than pour £1.75M into regenerating the top of Academy St as recently reported, how about just blitzing the lot and build a new stadium there instead.  There would probably be a campaign to keep the Phoenix - but on the other hand maybe not since last time I was in there (looking for someone who had fortunately left) the whole place stank of p!ss and there wasn't even a barman behind the bar.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Charles Bannerman

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

CB - look at the post at the top of the thread - perhaps my post may have been tongue in cheek !! - and your post simply emphasises the merger and is provocative to the good people who followed Caledonian FC who looked at, and still do, Telford Street as the domain and historical and emotional "property" of Caledonian FC.

 

What we should do is merge with Tinkerville - build a super stadium at the Tore Roundabout - build the biggest pub in Scotland beside the ground with Happy Hours fer 3 hours before and after the game, a nightclub and a massive upmarket caravan park where everybody could stay at nite.

[12th Man]

Thats the solution !!!! Everyone is always banging on about how dilapidated and dead the town centre is now that everyone is shopping on the outskirts of town .... slap a stadium in the middle, get 3000 fans on a matchday and you have already doubled the footfall for the town centre on a typical Saturday ... we would have to charge only £1 for everything at the stadium though to fit in with the local plan !

There you go Scotty! Rather than pour £1.75M into regenerating the top of Academy St as recently reported, how about just blitzing the lot and build a new stadium there instead. There would probably be a campaign to keep the Phoenix - but on the other hand maybe not since last time I was in there (looking for someone who had fortunately left) the whole place stank of p!ss and there wasn't even a barman behind the bar. Really sorry about the smell of p1ss charles I popped in there bursting for a pee couldn't make it to the bogs but your jacket pocked came in really handy. The barman went away to get you some cloths but you had left by the time he came back.

[Alex MacLeod]

Considering the way out of town shopping centres are expanding and shopping malls like the Eastgate are filling up with empty units perhaps it would be frugal to demolish said mall and build our stadium there. Five minutes walk from Gellie, Innes, Social Club and a multitude of other pubs within one minutes walk. Short distance from train and bus stations for the out of townies. Maybe we could even do a deal with Morrisons. Move them to Longman and convert their store to an indoor sports facility and the carpark to 4G outdoor pitches. We could even save the Morrisons bakery for matchday steak slices and cumberland sausage rolls. Everyone happy?? Somehow I think there'd still be a moan or two.

[clacher_holiday2]

Considering the way out of town shopping centres are expanding and shopping malls like the Eastgate are filling up with empty units perhaps it would be frugal to demolish said mall and build our stadium there. Five minutes walk from Gellie, Innes, Social Club and a multitude of other pubs within one minutes walk. Short distance from train and bus stations for the out of townies. Maybe we could even do a deal with Morrisons. Move them to Longman and convert their store to an indoor sports facility and the carpark to 4G outdoor pitches. We could even save the Morrisons bakery for matchday steak slices and cumberland sausage rolls. Everyone happy?? Somehow I think there'd still be a moan or two.

 

I might have been hallucinating at the time but was there not talk of moving the train station and opening up all the land currently occupied by thin air between Longman Road, Millburn Road and Harbour Road?  Maybe in another dimension we have a stadium there.

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

I might have been hallucinating at the time but was there not talk of moving the train station and opening up all the land currently occupied by thin air between Longman Road, Millburn Road and Harbour Road?  Maybe in another dimension we have a stadium there.

 

The logistics of moving the train station would surely even have appeared stupendous to the 70s generation of Howden Enders licking enough hallucinogenic stamps to send Big Daddy to Australia and drinking Scotsmac in swimming pool quantities!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Feck me - a Charlie Bannerman post that makes sense.

[Scarlet Pimple]

If you have the time to read it or even understand it. But...thinks...that's entirely my own fault 'cos I've been away so long.

 

Won't someone please post a map on this thread.....?

[Scarlet Pimple]

Leave it to the Scots--the steam engine, the telephone across the Atlantic, Penicillin and many other inventions.

Have faith and go for it I say. This is an opportunity that is worth the risk....

 

Is there anyone left in Scotland these days who actually  believes that David Cameron, who suddenly remembers that he has Scottish blood in his veins and cares s-o-o-o-o-o  much about Scotland, will invoke the feel-good factor, viz:   ''stay with us dearies, and you will be alright 'cos I'll look after you",  cares a fig about us Northerners? He's more concerned about greed and power and money, not the Scots. This  is your .last chance to get rid of the likes of him and his ilk. Blow it now and you deserve what you get.

 

It's all Laurence's fault anyway --he started this thread in the first place, clearly not realising the hornet's next that he was stirring up.

 

One thing's for sure, when  the oil finally runs out, an independent Scotland will have reaped the benefit and, if thrift and smart thoughts have anything to do with setting assets aside for the future, then you all will be  "alright Jack"--The alternative of staying with the U K Government seems banal to me since you will be no further forward and will remain slaves to the self-serving bureaucrats of Westminster whose only interest in Scotland is the taxes they can  squeeze from you and the  relaxing vacations they can enjoy here.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Oh ! Oh! How did that post get on this thread for goodness sake?  I was on the Independence thread......

 

Charles - that's going too far. It's either you or the lurking  Gremlins again.  Sigh--life gets tejious don' it?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Lofeckinl - no wonder you were confused !