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Kingsmills

Rank ICT Managers

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Christie inherited an excellent team, kept it going for a while, then let things slide. His signings? IIRC Dean MacDonald, Ally Ridgers, Markus Paatelaien. Relegation fodder. The high fitness standards left by his predecessor slid, the team became disorganised. We started playing aimless long high punts to the Dargo and Wyness. From free flowing, high energy attacking football to Highland League stuff.

 

We had a great chance of a deep run in the Scottish Cup, very few SPL teams remained, we blew an easy home draw against a very weak Partick Thistle. The following (or maybe previous) season were on the verge of knocking Celtic out of the Scottish Cup, keeping things tight with a few minutes to hold out. He takes on Rory McAllister and Graham Bayne, they equalise shortly after. Towards the end of his run we couldn't buy a goal, he had Wyness and Dargo sitting on the bench, and favoured Graham Bayne.

 

Every week he came out and talked Inverness down, insisting that we should all be grateful just to have a team in the SPL. He expected unconditional praise and adulation regardless of results, and refused to accept any criticism. He had delusions of grandeur, coming out in the papers talking about how he was learning Italian, and wanted to try his luck managing in Italian football one day. In the end he bottled it, and walked out of the job leaving us bottom of the league with 'nil pois', below Gretna.

 

He was a great player, but a terrible manager.

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Clacher Holiday 2 - laughable you're comments and displays you're lack of genuine knowledge about the club - as summed up by so many of your previous posts! Christie actually signed Rankin and Cowie at no cost whatsoever to the club but you possibly were supporting Clach at the time???

We paid a fee for Rankin. Reputed at the time to be somewhere between £40,000 and £60,000

That's right. We agreed with Uncle Roy that it was £20 for every fan at the next Cownty home match, hence the two different figures.

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Christie inherited an excellent team, kept it going for a while, then let things slide. His signings? IIRC Dean MacDonald, Ally Ridgers, Markus Paatelaien. Relegation fodder. The high fitness standards left by his predecessor slid, the team became disorganised. We started playing aimless long high punts to the Dargo and Wyness. From free flowing, high energy attacking football to Highland League stuff.

 

We had a great chance of a deep run in the Scottish Cup, very few SPL teams remained, we blew an easy home draw against a very weak Partick Thistle. The following (or maybe previous) season were on the verge of knocking Celtic out of the Scottish Cup, keeping things tight with a few minutes to hold out. He takes on Rory McAllister and Graham Bayne, they equalise shortly after. Towards the end of his run we couldn't buy a goal, he had Wyness and Dargo sitting on the bench, and favoured Graham Bayne.

 

Every week he came out and talked Inverness down, insisting that we should all be grateful just to have a team in the SPL. He expected unconditional praise and adulation regardless of results, and refused to accept any criticism. He had delusions of grandeur, coming out in the papers talking about how he was learning Italian, and wanted to try his luck managing in Italian football one day. In the end he bottled it, and walked out of the job leaving us bottom of the league with 'nil pois', below Gretna.

 

He was a great player, but a terrible manager.

Bayne was on from the start and scored our goal. Niether Wyness nor Dargo were on the bench.

 

Game was played on 25/02/07. Fifth round of Scottish Cup.

 

ICT Team: Fraser, Hastings, Tokely, Munro, Dods, Wilson (McAllister 86), McBain (Hart 45), Duncan, Black (McSwegan 77), Rankin, Bayne. Subs: Ridgers, McCaffery, Hart, McAllister, McSwegan.

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Butcher

Pele

 

[then a big gap]

 

Christie

Brewster 1

Robbo

 

[then a big gap]

 

Hughes

Baltacha

Brewster 2

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Clacher Holiday 2 - laughable you're comments and displays you're lack of genuine knowledge about the club - as summed up by so many of your previous posts! Christie actually signed Rankin and Cowie at no cost whatsoever to the club but you possibly were supporting Clach at the time???

 

lol I apologise for being factually incorrect but I don't see how that would change my thoughts about him being ranked lower than Pele and the 2 managers who took us to the SPL.  It also doesn't change my opinion that the squad we had then should've been doing better. 

 

Christie's appointment was a bit of a shambles, for a lot of the same reasons Hughes has been.  I was on the right side of history on that one, putting a guy with barely any full time experience as a player or coach in charge of a highly talented and determined SPL side who had never experienced anything other than forward momentum since being created in 1994 was a mistake.  I think I'm right in saying our SPL home attendances were on average about 1,000-1,200 higher during that spell than they are now, which I put firmly down to the ambition the club had been showing in looking to establish themselves as a regular SPL side.  We were all excited about what was possible in the coming seasons before a man out of his depth stopped us in our tracks/

 

Much like the ambition and positivity shown before Hughes came in at the back end of last year, tying up players on longer deals was as much of a statement in todays football climate as signing a guy like Nicolae was back then, we had the opportunity when Hughes was appointed to really make a step forward in the long term towards establishing ourselves as a club who should never be fighting relegation.  All it would've taken, much like when Christie landed the job, was putting in somebody with good experience.  Even if it would've required significantly more investment it would be worth the gamble, why not go all out and use the compensation money we received for Brewster/Butcher and poach some other mobs manager?  Why plump for the cheap option when everything else is falling into place to make a sustained effort to change for the long term? 

 

 

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Butcher

Pele

Robbo

Christie

Brewster

Baltacha

 

I feel that although it leaves a sour taste in the way he left Butcher was our most successful manager at the highest level.

 

With regards to Brewster I have just lumped his 1st and 2nd period together as I believe his success in his first spell had a lot to do with "Brewster" the player rather than just manager.

 

I have not ranked Hughes, while I may have my doubts about him I don't think its fair to compare him to guys that had a lot longer in the job and had the chance to add their own players to the squad.

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I wonder how a posters age influences their choices on this subject?...

A lot I think.

 

Anyway for me it is:

 

- Pele

- Robbo

- Charlie

- Gonzo

- Brew the First

- Baltacha

- Hughes

- Brew the Second

 

I may swap Baltacha and Hughes about but you get the picture.

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1. Butcher - he took us to top six and left us with a team lying second in the league. He also did wonders for our profile!

 

2. Paterson - it was just so much fun.  Every home game was an absolute joy, even if we didn't win

 

3. Christie - hugely underrated for me. Tactically astute and kept us punching above our weight.

 

4. Robertson - took us up, but I don't know how well we would have done in the SPL if he had remained

 

5. Brewster (first time round) - how much of his success was down to Brewster the player?

 

6. Brewster (second time round) - after an initial bounce, his relationship with the players collapsed and the writing was on the wall months before his departure

 

7. Baltacha - I was only about 10, but I still remember that we were rubbish, and boring, under his charge

 

8. Hughes - has accomplished the remarkable feat of making decent players look useless. May yet become our shortest serving manager ever

I'd go with the 1st 5 for the same reasons but then

6 Baltacha - Never saw ICT under his charge so can't really judge, Did ok in the clubs 1st ever SFL season but was properly gazumped by Paterson.

7 Hughes - Aside from a good February he's been a bit meh to say the least. March has been awful, of that there can be no doubt, has a lot of work to do to win the fans. Ironically, play as the team was he inherited, and thus do nothing to it and he's do that.

8 Brewster round 2. He was only good 1st time round as he was playing. And with him stuck on the touch line his team were dire. He was a terrible manager, had no people skills at all. Alienated Ian Black and John Rankin to a point both were more than happy to leave. Hated him. Only ICT manager I've called for the head of to date.

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6 Baltacha - Never saw ICT under his charge so can't really judge, Did ok in the clubs 1st ever SFL season but was properly gazumped by Paterson.

 

 

Finished below Cownty though - epic fail, as people used to say

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To be fair to Sergi, he was up against the best County manager in their history. It's been all clowns since then.

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1. Steve Paterson - Took the club up through the leagues, playing attacking football and had a great eye for a player.  Would we have ever played in the top flight had it not been for him?  Maybe not.  The backbone of his side lived on for about a decade.

2. Terry Butcher - Built two or three good sides.  Played attractive for a fair chunk of the time and signed so many great players for nothing.  He could be a little tactically inflexible and had a habit of blowing big games (like the 2009 relegation decider), but he advanced the profile of the club big time.

3. John Robertson - Promoted to the SPL in 2004, thanks in part to bringing in David Bingham who other managers wouldn't have been able to recruit.  Played and continues to play attractive football and has a chance of the play-offs this year.

4. John Hughes - Won the Scottish Cup and a shoot-out away from a League Cup.  Brought Greg Tansey back to the club that was a very shrewd move and played some fantastic football during that 2015 season.  When it came to replacing players though, he didn't have the contacts that the likes of Butcher had and signed some absolute dross.

5. Charlie Christie - Certainly wasn't bad.  Brought Don Cowie and John Rankin to the club and played decent football from what I remember.  Had a terrible habit of talking the club down in the press though.

6. Craig Brewster - Was decent enough the first time around and *did* have an eye for a player...at times.  Signed Ryan Esson and Adam Rooney who were fantastic signings, along with the likes of Felipe Morais and Pavels Mihadjuks though signed some dross too.  Had the players fit but played boring long ball football and alienated the likes of Ian Black and John Rankin.  Should never have been brought back for a second spell.

7. Richie Foran - Like having a fan in the dugout.  Tactically clueless and signed some absolute rubbish like Henri Anier.  Slightly unlucky in that some players like Scott Boden and Billy King didn't perform as expected, while I assume he had high hopes for Kevin McNaughton before he missed most of the season.  Doesn't change the fact that he was a very poor manager though.

8. Sergei Baltacha - Only in the job for a year and played highly defensive football that finished 8th in what was then the bottom tier.

Edited by Renegade
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19 minutes ago, Renegade said:

1. Steve Paterson - Took the club up through the leagues, playing attacking football and had a great eye for a player.  Would we have ever played in the top flight had it not been for him?  Maybe not.  The backbone of his side lived on for about a decade.

2. Terry Butcher - Built two or three good sides.  Played attractive for a fair chunk of the time and signed so many great players for nothing.  He could be a little tactically inflexible and had a habit of blowing big games (like the 2009 relegation decider), but he advanced the profile of the club big time.

3. John Robertson - Promoted to the SPL in 2004, thanks in part to bringing in David Bingham who other managers wouldn't have been able to recruit.  Played and continues to play attractive football and has a chance of the play-offs this year.

4. John Hughes - Won the Scottish Cup and a shoot-out away from a League Cup.  Brought Greg Tansey back to the club that was a very shrewd move and played some fantastic football during that 2015 season.  When it came to replacing players though, he didn't have the contacts that the likes of Butcher had and signed some absolute dross.

5. Charlie Christie - Certainly wasn't bad.  Brought Don Cowie and John Rankin to the club and played decent football from what I remember.  Had a terrible habit of talking the club down in the press though.

6. Craig Brewster - Was decent enough the first time around and *did* have an eye for a player...at times.  Signed Ryan Esson and Adam Rooney who were fantastic signings, along with the likes of Felipe Morais and Pavels Mihadjuks though signed some dross too.  Had the players fit but played boring long ball football and alienated the likes of Ian Black and John Rankin.  Should never have been brought back for a second spell.

7. Richie Foran - Like having a fan in the dugout.  Tactically clueless and signed some absolute rubbish like Henri Anier.  Slightly unlucky in that some players like Scott Boden and Billy King didn't perform as expected, while I assume he had high hopes for Kevin McNaughton before he missed most of the season.  Doesn't change the fact that he was a very poor manager though.

8. Sergei Baltacha - Only in the job for a year and played highly defensive football that finished 8th in what was then the bottom tier.

Baltacha had a team of part time Highland League players when the entire club was still finding its feet in the national league system.

He was not the best coach in the world but it's unfair to rank him behind Foran who's record was abysmal despite having a large squad of seasoned professionals many of whom were Scottish Cup winners and some of whom were on six figure salaries.

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Sorry Rene I agree with Kingsmills here re Baltatcha. Richie Foran worst for me with Brewster in his second spell not far behind 

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The bigger question is how did Rene manage to stumble on a 4 year old thread? Not much on telly tonight obviously  :laugh:

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I understand what you mean with Baltacha (and unlike some of you old folks I never saw his ICT side!).  But was he really any good?  He was barely in the job to make that much of an impact.

Also, whatever happened to Clacher_Holiday2?

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15 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I understand what you mean with Baltacha (and unlike some of you old folks I never saw his ICT side!).  But was he really any good?  He was barely in the job to make that much of an impact.

Also, whatever happened to Clacher_Holiday2?

He was better than Richie Foran :wink:

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Clearly Hughes hadn't yet won over the supporters when this thread was started!

Baltacha signed as player/manager but as I recall he didn't play all that often.

Like with Brewster, the team seemed to play better when he was on the field.

The team made a great start in Division 3 but faded a bit in the second half. I think politics had a lot to do with that.

Don't really think Sergei can be judged on his short spell in charge of a team which had only just been formed from a controversial merger.

Oh s**t - I said the M-word!!!

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If you go through and rank managers on a scale of 1-10 (10 being perfect and 1 being woeful)....Baltacha wouldn't score lowest, so should not be in last place...IMO.

My list would also look very different if ranking on managerial ability and coaching ability.

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41 minutes ago, buckett said:

Clearly Hughes hadn't yet won over the supporters when this thread was started!

 

He failed to win over some of us at all and some of those he did win over he lost again with his conduct towards the end of his tenure.

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1 hour ago, old caley girl said:

Sorry Rene I agree with Kingsmills here re Baltatcha. Richie Foran worst for me with Brewster in his second spell not far behind 

I'm also with OCG and Kingsmills, although I also agree that neither was much good (Sergei and Richie I mean.... not OCG and Kingsmills :lol:). There are a number of factors in mitigation for Baltacha, not the least that he had to take a new club in its very first season into the national leagues with an entirely part time squad, mainly from the Highland League. It has been correctly said that, even though he had had a season with Caley, bottom tier SFL football was pretty well foreign to Sergei, but this was also new to the club environment he was working in as well. Add to that a complete lack of money and all the hassle that was going on in and around the club, and you have a pretty challenging managerial situation so a mid-table finish maybe wasn't all that bad. Remember also that by the time the Pele transformation kicked in, about 3 months into his debut season, apart from Pele's huge personal qualities, most of the internal hassle had been resolved and he had had around £100K to spend on Stewart, MacArthur, Teasdale, Thomson and Ross.

As for Foran, OK he was faced with the Premiership not Division 3 but he inherited the guts of a squad which had won the Scottish Cup just over a year before he took over and which, by historic ICT standards, was having money simply thrown at it. What RF inherited was also an established Premiership scenario whereas SB's team had just been put together (OK, with ex-Caley players, albeit not from an outstandingly good side by Caley standards, as a backbone) and were starting from scratch.

This is a little bit like comparing apples and oranges, but I think the balance of the evidence finds in Sergei's favour.

As for Brewster 2, I have never quite got my head round that. CB did fine first time round here, but when he came back from Dundee United, his own playing contribution notwithstanding, he just wasn't the same manager.  Did something happen at Tannadice when he was there? Well we know it did, in the form of a player revolt, but I have always been of the view that Tannadice is a very strange place indeed and a managerial graveyard, or rather scaffold, and I believe that the longstanding difficulty there originates from boardroom level.

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17 hours ago, Renegade said:

I understand what you mean with Baltacha (and unlike some of you old folks I never saw his ICT side!).  But was he really any good?  He was barely in the job to make that much of an impact.

Also, whatever happened to Clacher_Holiday2?

Don't know what became of C-H2.  But I feel another "where are they now" thread coming on.  Others, off the top of my head,  who I don't see posting any more include

Johnboy, The Fly, Pauliebees, Harry Chibber, Sneckboy.   Must be dozens more.

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