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If the club has to put those German style safe standing seats that flip up then its a non-starter, we cant afford it. there's half a dozen threads on this subject over the last couple of years alone and I seem to remember, that this was one of the stumbling blocks last time.

 

If however, the club could designate a specific section to standing without having to retrofit it then personally I think they should go for it !!!

 

 

As I said on this argument before, my seats at Toronto FC are basically the same as those at the TCS, and at every home game, despite the official rule in MLS being 'all-seated stadia' the 5000+ in the designated "supporters section" that stretches for the full length behind one of the goals are allowed (encouraged) to stand, wave flags and banners, and generate an atmosphere. To my knowledge, despite the raucous atmosphere, the copious amounts of alcohol that is served, and the fact that these sections are normally packed to capacity, there have been no safety issues related to standing .... other than occasional part-timer ending up with a ticket for this section, sitting in their seat and then moaning they cant see !    

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I've never understood why you can have the old style terracing in in the lower league but not in the top tier.  Especially after some of the 'bigger' teams have been down there.  What's a bigger match: a cold Tuesday night match between ICT and Kilmarnock with 2,500 in attendance or a sold out Edinburgh Derby title decider at Tynecastle.  One allows standing and the other doesn't.  Madness.

 

If standing areas are so bad, why do they allow them at concerts?

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Whilst it's been a while since I've sat/stood in with the rest of the fans at a game, I do get the impression that stewards aren't getting on people's backs so much and forcing them to sit (home or away).  If that's the case and fans aren't being hassled over it, then that's a far more sensible solution than forcing clubs to spend a fortune on rail seating.

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Standing in section E can lead to other fans moaning about not being able to see the match. (Granted, that hasn't been the case so much lately.) Might it be possible to get a cover over the West stand and remove the seats? Or would they have to install the German-style foldable seats Scotty mentioned? I think it would lead to higher attendances.

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I agree with Scotty and Renegade.  The article quotes the spokesman of County calling for the return of terracing to be added into the debate and I think that is the line we should take.  Costs for German style standing areas are prohibitative for most of the SPFL clubs but common sense tells us that there should be no need for that.  Of course Hillsborough was awful but as so often happens, the response to such tragedies takes us too far the other way.  There is nothing wrong with terracing per se.  As long as barriers are maintained and entry is appropriately controlled terraces are perfectly safe.  Frankly people are currently more at risk of tripping and falling into the row in front when squeezing past others to get to their seat.  There needs to be a serious reconsideration of terracing.  In the meantime, as CaleyD says, the more pragmatic attitude the stewards are taking now is a sensible interim position.

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not supporting the rail seating idea. I think most of us would agree on that point unless ICT could actually afford it, but as we have seen with stewards in the past it only takes one 'jobsworth' to make things miserable so there has to be an official difference between explicitly "allowing" standing and unofficially "tolerating" it.

 

 

 

Again, I will go back to the Toronto FC example as I do believe it is relevant. From day one in 2007 several sections have been deemed supporters sections (they seem to add additional sections each year - it started with 2 sections now its 10). these sections have the same type of seating as the rest of the ground but in all the club marketing and in the stands themselves there are disclaimers that say your view may be obstructed due to standing/flags etc .... 

 

just noticed this on the renewals page for TFC ....

 

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I agree with Scotty and Renegade.  The article quotes the spokesman of County calling for the return of terracing to be added into the debate and I think that is the line we should take.  Costs for German style standing areas are prohibitative for most of the SPFL clubs but common sense tells us that there should be no need for that.  Of course Hillsborough was awful but as so often happens, the response to such tragedies takes us too far the other way.  There is nothing wrong with terracing per se.  As long as barriers are maintained and entry is appropriately controlled terraces are perfectly safe.  Frankly people are currently more at risk of tripping and falling into the row in front when squeezing past others to get to their seat.  There needs to be a serious reconsideration of terracing.  In the meantime, as CaleyD says, the more pragmatic attitude the stewards are taking now is a sensible interim position.

 

Absolutely agree but there are a number of things that stands Hillsborough out that should take this all terracing is dangerous debate. It was a tragedy that could have been avoided as we all know there was major flaws with the ground and the policing. The actual terrace in question the leppings lane end had hosted plenty of games including the same fixture in the same competition and round 12 months earlier and it went off without a problem. The biggest issue was when the exit gate was opened to stop the pressure outside the turnstiles the gates to the tunnel to enter the terrace should have been shut as it was already very full that would have stopped any problems. Also the presence of the perimeter fencing because of the era of hooliganism caused it. Had that not been there fans would have spilled onto the pitch and simply move into the areas where they was more space. So it was less the fault of the ground but the issues i have highlighted but what it did do was allow English clubs to sort out its stadia with many in a major state of disrepair. The taylor report finding only made it law in England so in theory Scotland dint have to follow but they did because grounds in Scotland were also in major disrepair and needed to be improved. The 10,000 seater rule which almost crippled many clubs was the most foolhardy piece of legislation in Scottish football but I don't understand why clubs our size couldn't keep the terracing. I think both us and county have suffered because of it i mean if you look at the videos of the Caldonian stadium before the stands the atmosphere was better. The terraces we had we not dangerous and lets be honest they wouldn't be hard to police. Anyway that is history we have the stands now but i think we could improve our atmosphere if we could have a form of terracing back.

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The 10,000 seater rule which almost crippled many clubs was the most foolhardy piece of legislation in Scottish football

Whether it was designed to keep out the riff-raff or was simply an SPL vanity project, you are absolutely spot on with that gingerjaggy!

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I've never understood why you can have the old style terracing in in the lower league but not in the top tier.  Especially after some of the 'bigger' teams have been down there.  What's a bigger match: a cold Tuesday night match between ICT and Kilmarnock with 2,500 in attendance or a sold out Edinburgh Derby title decider at Tynecastle.  One allows standing and the other doesn't.  Madness.

 

I'm not sure what you mean Rene. First, Tynecastle has no terracing. Maybe you mean the stewards have turned a blind eye to huge numbers of bevvied-up young men standing, same as they do when the twins of evil visit us. But that's not the same as 'standing being allowed in the lower leagues'.

Second, I can't recall any club being relegated from the top league and still having terracing in place after having stretched themselves to meet the criteria of 6000/10000 seats. We ourselves were obliged to have only seating even after relegation in 2009. Teams with terracing such as QOS are rare and have never made it to the top division.

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I've never understood why you can have the old style terracing in in the lower league but not in the top tier.  Especially after some of the 'bigger' teams have been down there.  What's a bigger match: a cold Tuesday night match between ICT and Kilmarnock with 2,500 in attendance or a sold out Edinburgh Derby title decider at Tynecastle.  One allows standing and the other doesn't.  Madness.

 

I'm not sure what you mean Rene. First, Tynecastle has no terracing. Maybe you mean the stewards have turned a blind eye to huge numbers of bevvied-up young men standing, same as they do when the twins of evil visit us. But that's not the same as 'standing being allowed in the lower leagues'.

Second, I can't recall any club being relegated from the top league and still having terracing in place after having stretched themselves to meet the criteria of 6000/10000 seats. We ourselves were obliged to have only seating even after relegation in 2009. Teams with terracing such as QOS are rare and have never made it to the top division.

 

 

We actually still have terracing on the West side of the ground, towards the South Stand, it just has boards and stuff up around it.  Using it was looked at when we got relegated and league/stadium rules would have permitted it.  However, the club were told that authorities would oppose the changes needed to our safety certificate on the grounds of it being a "retrograde move" in terms of ground use.

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So the authorities think that allowing a few extra fans to pay some money to stand on that tiny bit of terracing and support their local football cub is a "retrograde move" in terms of ground use?  What utter sh*te.  What is true is that employing these idiots is certainly a retrograde move in terms of good use of taxpayers' money.

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But remember we were relegated in 09 when the old SPL/SFL rules were in place. In 2011 the SPL voted to allow safe standing(rail seats) and then the rules changed again in 2013 with the formation of the SPFL, for example the 6000 seat rule has been scrapped therefore the likes of QoS or Morton can be promoted even with normal terracing. Therefore imho the west side terracing option should be explored again!

Rene is right that Hearts/Hibs and Rangers have all been allowed to stand on normal terraces at Queens, Alloa and Cowdenbeath. The Queens away terrace in fact was closed for years and only re-opened this year and has been used by all clubs. There was talk before Christmas that Partick were hoping to re-open their terrace at the grassy hill end.

I really feel that the club should be asked about this and if it is plausible. For instance the west side could be split in two, either side of the TV gantry. The North-West terrace for home supporters and the South-West for Away fans. I for one would happily stand on that terrace every week!

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Places more likely to be overcrowded than a Scottish football match... 

- Scotty and the Skyhooks at The Ironworks
- Johnny Foxes on a Saturday night

- The Eastgate Centre on Black Friday
- The Wines and Spirits aisle at Tesco Extra

I don't think we have much to worry about!



 

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Not that good a piece as there is no UK legislation and it's not, and never has been, banned by law or government legislation in Scotland.

It was a self imposed restriction by the SPL who just about drove several clubs to the wall by making it/all seater stadia a condition of membership for the top league.

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Standing has rarely been unsafe, the benefits I believe are larger crowds, better atmosphere, lower price, good camaraderie/banter, better blood flow to joints, no bouncing up and down when a chance is created, no sun in your eyes in the winter (I used to take sunglasses to the main stand).

I remember there used to be a big farmer laddie who regularly stood at the front of the west terracing and would give dogs abuse to the linesman, full backs and wingers.On the night ICT defeated Martin ONeal's Celtic in the SC, Jim White and Charlie Nick were crossing the pitch to the commentary box. The big lad shouts Charlie, Charlie what's the score gonna be? to which Charlie responds 5-0 Aye but who to Charlie says he.Nicholas just laughed. That's the kind of banter that seems to be lost these days.

Bring back standing.

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