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I see Israel has gone on one of their bombing rampages in Palestine yet again. Do you have ANY sympathy for them. I cant say i do. They have developed this victim mentality, yet seem to think they have the right to do what they please, yet the rest sit back and allow it. I have no sympathy for them. Did you know...in Israel, Palastenians living in the country have to use a certain kind of number plates on cars to identify them as Palastenians. They are a law unto themselves and seem to be allowed to operate outwith normal accepted regulations.

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I see Israel has gone on one of their bombing rampages in Palestine yet again. Do you have ANY sympathy for them. I cant say i do. They have developed this victim mentality, yet seem to think they have the right to do what they please, yet the rest sit back and allow it. I have no sympathy for them. Did you know...in Israel, Palastenians living in the country have to use a certain kind of number plates on cars to identify them as Palastenians. They are a law unto themselves and seem to be allowed to operate outwith normal accepted regulations.

I think the word you're looking for is Apartheid. The situation there is volatile and has been since biblical times. The Allies "gifting" them the "Promised Land" has backfired, will there ever be peace in the region?

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I cant see there ever being peace there to be fair.

The Israelis see it as their homeland as they were there thousands of years ago

The palestinians see it as their homeland, as to be fair it has been since christ knows when.

When in actual fact the Israelis were 'supposedly ordered by god' to oust the Caananites living there, according to the bible. What all knowing, all loving god would do that??

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I cant see there ever being peace there to be fair.

The Israelis see it as their homeland as they were there thousands of years ago

The palestinians see it as their homeland, as to be fair it has been since christ knows when.

When in actual fact the Israelis were 'supposedly ordered by god' to oust the Caananites living there, according to the bible. What all knowing, all loving god would do that??

Longer than that actually. :rotflmao:

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The only way for Israel to survive long-term is to make peace with it's neighbours. Sooner or later a chemical, biological or nuclear attack will happen otherwise. Israel and America may respond (but against who? Attack a friendly nation like Saudi or Egypt if some terrorists are from there?) but Israel's only the size of Wales. It just can't survive too many attacks of that nature. Countries like Saudi Arabia and the UAE are desperate to put this all behind them, whilst others like Jordan and Egypt pretty much have. With the Arab peace plan, there really is very little to negotiate about. All both sides need is trust but that's in pretty short supply. Personally, I don't see why Israel just doesn't retreat to it's borders unilaterally, then announces that the post WW2 Palestine can be re-established but it's not there concern any more. The Arab nations can then get on with creating a free Palestine and Israel can treat any hostile action as that of a neighbouring nation with all that entails, rather than collective punishments and a second-class citizenship.

That said, I've never been very comfortable with a Jewish homeland, any more than a white, Muslim etc nation. I don't mean that nations won't have a natural cultural identity gained throughout the years (e.g. Scotland will be white and Christian, whilst, say, Yemen will be Arab and Muslim for a long time to come and so on) but making the religion, race, colour or whatever engrained within the nation just doesn't sit right, i.e. the Jewish State of Israel is as uncomfortable as the white rule of South Africa or the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Why should one set of people who may have been born there be of any less importance than the rest?

I always mean to never read these posts. Politics and football don't sit comfortably often. Oh well, I'll try to avoid it in the future. And bang go my chances of ever becoming President of the US (I was so close...)

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Guest Spectre

Three (?) years ago Israel pulled out of Gaza, bulldozing Israeli settlers houses if necessary.

Since then Hamas has regularly mortared Isreali civilians from Gaza.

They've been warned to stop, not just by Israel.

What did anyone expect would happen?

What would happen if, say, a community of travellers mortared Inverness from North Kessock? Would we expect to sit by and not retaliate indefinitely? I think not.

One can argue about whether the status quo (i.e. the existence of Israel) is fair or just or not (it was created by the UN remember) but one should not forget that Hamas are not really interested in a 'solution', quite the reverse.

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Way too simplistic. Firstly, Hamas have indicated to Jimmy Carter that a peaceful solution is possible but publicly declaring this without Israel declaring first is not the way they want to play it. Much like Syria these days too. Meetings going on in Turkey but no-one actually saying so.

As for travellers from North Kessock - Israel is more akin to the travellers than the followers of Hamas. How about for Somalian war crimes, half of Scotland is declared the homeland to Somalians and any Scot who opposes this is a terrorist. Fair? Was William Wallace a terrorist for not surrendering to an occupying force?

There's more as well. Palestine have had previous truces with Israel, then Israel has said this doesn't include people they deem threats. Well, who are you having a ceasefire with? Hamas had a 9 month period where they fired no rockets and had no suicide bombers, yet Israel used that time not to build bridges but to attack Hamas.

As for Gaza, how free is it when their entire economy and power is under control of an oppressive outside government? Withdrawing troops but rationing food really isn't being free. At least it shows the lie that the US is a supporter of democracy - Hamas of course winning the last election.

Trouble with this situation is both sides have legitimate arguments. Both sides use force against innocents. I don't see a suicide bomber as any better than a gunship. The bizarre thing is, everyone has pretty much agreed on the solution (2 states) but getting there without trust is next to impossible.

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Guest Spectre

Way too simplistic.

So is the analysis that it's all Israel's fault. That's my point.

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Absolutely not. See my last paragraph. The solution? Return to the 1947 boundaries and compensation for the Palestinian displaced when Israel was set up by terrorism. Everyone knows that's the solution too but there's too many extremists on both sides (witness Rabin getting shot when a Palestinian state was on the verge of agreement - the Palestinian extremism being all too readily reported).

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Absolutely not. See my last paragraph. The solution? Return to the 1947 boundaries and compensation for the Palestinian displaced when Israel was set up by terrorism. Everyone knows that's the solution too but there's too many extremists on both sides (witness Rabin getting shot when a Palestinian state was on the verge of agreement - the Palestinian extremism being all too readily reported).

The Palestinians don't want compensation they want their homes back.

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When a supposedly democratic nation acts in a manner that is less discriminating andmore remorselessly bloodthirsty than the terrorists then yes I have to agree with those who have little or no sympathy for them.

Can you just imagine what "sanction" would befall any Arab nation acting in the same way. What happened over Christmas has undoubtedly created a whole mass of new highly motivated suicide bombers.

Edited by Kingsmills

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It is difficult to imagine the situation that exists there.

To go to school, the children are held up at Israeli checkpoints for hours, each way, making the school day many hours longer, they have to go through Israeli held land to get to their destination. They also do this to people going to the hospital, with pregnant woman giving birth at the side of the road whilst the guards look on.

The above report was first hand from the Church of Scotland rep in Israel.

How can a nation that endured so much suffering, carry out such heartless damage to another human being??

I have wept over the suffering of the Jews and I now weep over the actions they are carrying out. I can not reconcile the two!

I wonder if food, power and water, was cut off from Inverness and Raigmore Hospital and your children starved and loved ones suffer in hospital as a result - would you not be inclined to lob a few mortar shells at the people responsible for this?

As was evident from last nights news on TV, men against boys, air attacks against youngsters with slings, hurling stones!

Watch any news broadcast and whilst the dead are mentioned after the air attacks, circa 350 with circa 1000 injured, in 4 days, the Israelis give, if pushed, their dead as the number killed in the last 8 years!! ( I am sorry I can't recall the number but it is mentioned so seldom)

If the Jews behaved in a civilised manner towards their neighbour perhaps they would be no need for mortars.

Watch over the next few days on your 40 inch screen and see Hitler, Stalin and their like, in Israeli colours, killing fish in a barrel. Just as a reminder, your Christmas spending is helping to fund the bombs you are watching on the TV. This could not happen without Western financial support.

To finish on the same theme as I started on, I have read and watched and was totally swayed by the hard times the Jews had to endure, I now feel I have been lied to all those years, as the people that suffered in this way could not possible do what I am watching on the television.

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Unlike Israel, Egypt are not currently driving a coach and horses through international law and basic humanity !

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The Palestinians don't control the Egypt border. Hamas is also not the nicest of organisations to let freely into a country that already has problems with the Muslim Brotherhood.

I see Israel is now talking about 'crushing' and toppling Hamas. Have they learnt nothing about terrorism? It's like trying to put out a fire by blasting it with oxygen! Although the ceasefire ended, a few weeks before it began, Hamas were firing rockets into the deserts rather than the towns as it was merely symoblic.

I also just heard Netanyahu (to think the Israelis turned to him after Rabin and Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize and were on the verge of peace - it'd be like Northern Ireland voting Sinn Fein and Ian Paisley in after the Good Friday Agreement...) asking why the international community wasn't standing by Israel when they were attempting to avoid (yeah, I know but let's just go with it) civilian casualties, whilst Hamas fired indiscriminately. Answer is of course, Israel is illegally occupying another country formed by the same UN mandate that established Israel (would we be surprised if Scotland invaded Norway and they began fighting back?). Secondly, give them helicopter gunships and laser sightings and I'm sure they would target a lot more effectively.

All-in-all, what on Earth do the Israeli government really believe they'll get out of this? Surely, they can't see this as a means to peace???

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Whilst the Israelis are aggressive towards innocents purely for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is worth considering the history which has formed such a negative attitude in the Arab race. I found this article not only informative but also very interesting.

Middle Eastern Times

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It is difficult to imagine the situation that exists there.

To go to school, the children are held up at Israeli checkpoints for hours, each way, making the school day many hours longer, they have to go through Israeli held land to get to their destination. They also do this to people going to the hospital, with pregnant woman giving birth at the side of the road whilst the guards look on.

The above report was first hand from the Church of Scotland rep in Israel.

How can a nation that endured so much suffering, carry out such heartless damage to another human being??

I have wept over the suffering of the Jews and I now weep over the actions they are carrying out. I can not reconcile the two!

I wonder if food, power and water, was cut off from Inverness and Raigmore Hospital and your children starved and loved ones suffer in hospital as a result - would you not be inclined to lob a few mortar shells at the people responsible for this?

As was evident from last nights news on TV, men against boys, air attacks against youngsters with slings, hurling stones!

Watch any news broadcast and whilst the dead are mentioned after the air attacks, circa 350 with circa 1000 injured, in 4 days, the Israelis give, if pushed, their dead as the number killed in the last 8 years!! ( I am sorry I can't recall the number but it is mentioned so seldom)

If the Jews behaved in a civilised manner towards their neighbour perhaps they would be no need for mortars.

Watch over the next few days on your 40 inch screen and see Hitler, Stalin and their like, in Israeli colours, killing fish in a barrel. Just as a reminder, your Christmas spending is helping to fund the bombs you are watching on the TV. This could not happen without Western financial support.

To finish on the same theme as I started on, I have read and watched and was totally swayed by the hard times the Jews had to endure, I now feel I have been lied to all those years, as the people that suffered in this way could not possible do what I am watching on the television.

That is one incredible post....

It should be re-written in letters of stone and sent off to every corner of the civilised world.....

If there are any still in existence....

Thanks Absent friend.

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That is one incredible post....

It should be re-written in letters of stone and sent off to every corner of the civilised world.....

If there are any still in existence....

Thanks Absent friend.

If only he had referenced Israelis instead of Jews it wouldn't reinforce the Jihad of the Palestinians. Violence breeds violence. They, as we, are a' Jock Tamsons bairns.

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That is one incredible post....

It should be re-written in letters of stone and sent off to every corner of the civilised world.....

If there are any still in existence....

Thanks Absent friend.

If only he had referenced Israelis instead of Jews it wouldn't reinforce the Jihad of the Palestinians. Violence breeds violence. They, as we, are a' Jock Tamsons bairns.

This was the line that struck a chord with me....

How can a nation that endured so much suffering, carry out such heartless damage to other human beings??

80% of Israel is Jewish....

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What ever happened to that guy who was appointed as a Middle East Peace Envoy about a year ago... He's surely been very quiet regarding this conflict - especially since GW Bush has announced that Hamas are entirely to blame and deserve all they get - women, children et all..

I can't remember his name now Tony somebody or other... An irritating kind of a guy who helped drag us into an illegal war with Iraq...

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