Is the G-word racist?

[Johnboy]

I.m confused here. Did anyone actually complain to the pokice or SFL/SFA re this or is this just the reaction of the club to the 2 complaints? If no-one had complained at all would this have carried on as banter as has been the case for years? If it is the club well you have to wonder about their communication with the fans and the bad press we all have had whether we chant or not.

QUOTE

Caley Thistle general manager Mike Smith said: "We do not wish to magnify this issue, but complaints were received about abusive chanting in the last game with Ross County which included reference to 'gypsies'.

Having discussed the matter at length with the Police who have responsibility for enforcing the law covering racist and sectarian matters, we took the opportunity at our last game of talking to the young fans involved, to warn them of the potential issues involved. We are aware of previous incidents where young fans have found themselves in trouble with the law, and as we believe that prevention is the best course of action, we would hate for any young person to unwittingly find themselves in breach of the law in these circumstances.

We and the Police met with representatives of the young fans this evening to make them fully aware of the issues involved. Caley Thistle is proud of the good reputation that our fans have and we fully understand that chanting and singing is part of the football tradition, but fans need to be aware that it must be done within the law. Obviously, action on any issues at Sunday?s game will be a matter for the Police.

[old caley girl]

But they did magnify the issue it's even been picked up by the national press according to some. Just feel this has been badly dealt with.

[davie]

How can a football team survive when it works so hard to drive its fans away?

From over here in Canada these guys look like a bunch of fools.

I can argue with that.

The club aren't trying to drive the fans away. They are anxious not to fall foul of the law by allowing them to chant what are now, apparently, racist chants....

I don't think they've got any options other than to heed the police advice in this matter.

John boy, I don't think that anyone on here is advocating racism. the point that you seem to be consistently missing is that it never needed to come to this. All that it required was an announcement before the game, and a few words of warning to section G. It was the club who upped the ante by responding to what, by their own account, is one written (and therefore uncorroborated) and one verbal (and therefore inadmissable) complaint. It was the club who involved the polis and the club who mixed this issue up with the sitting/ standing in section G issue. The club, and in particular the general manager, doesn't need you as an apologist.

All that is happening here is the inevitable and justified backlash when you are silenced by the powers that be on behalf of a minority of one.

[Johnboy]

John boy, I don't think that anyone on here is advocating racism. the point that you seem to be consistently missing is that it never needed to come to this. All that it required was an announcement before the game, and a few words of warning to section G. It was the club who upped the ante by responding to what, by their own account, is one written (and therefore uncorroborated) and one verbal (and therefore inadmissable) complaint. It was the club who involved the polis and the club who mixed this issue up with the sitting/ standing in section G issue. The club, and in particular the general manager, doesn't need you as an apologist.

All that is happening here is the inevitable and justified backlash when you are silenced by the powers that be on behalf of a minority of one.

I agree Davie, but according to the police calling someone a gypsy b'stard can now be looked on as a racist attack.

What really sticks in my craw is that it was actually our own supporters (all two of them) who made the complaints.

Does anyone know who they were?

[old caley girl]

John boy, I don't think that anyone on here is advocating racism. the point that you seem to be consistently missing is that it never needed to come to this. All that it required was an announcement before the game, and a few words of warning to section G. It was the club who upped the ante by responding to what, by their own account, is one written (and therefore uncorroborated) and one verbal (and therefore inadmissable) complaint. It was the club who involved the polis and the club who mixed this issue up with the sitting/ standing in section G issue. The club, and in particular the general manager, doesn't need you as an apologist.

All that is happening here is the inevitable and justified backlash when you are silenced by the powers that be on behalf of a minority of one.

I agree Davie, but according to the police calling someone a gypsy b'stard can now be looked on as a racist attack.

What really sticks in my craw is that it was actually our own supporters (all two of them) who made the complaints.

Does anyone know who they were?

Wish they would speak up even anonymously and give their side of the story. I kinda wonder if it was the bad language they were really objecting to or didnt really understand the history of this banter.

[Alex MacLeod]

Has it crossed anyones mind that the complainants may actually be Gypsy Travellers? If it were them they are bound to be offended are they not? They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

There are many who see it as banter to refer to RC supporters as Gypsies and who get a laugh out of inferring that Gypsies are dirty or lawbreakers or, indeed, live in caravans and some of those claim not to be racist but the very inference in itself is racist.

Don't get me wrong here. I've made my caravan jokes etc, just like everyone else, and I see it as no more than banter but when the big arm of the law threatens action then its time to change. This was never a problem in our previous times in the same league as County because the recognition of Race for Travellers did not exist. It does now and if one person is offended then the club have to be seen to act.

[CaleyMad]

I think the complaining came from the gypsies at the side of TCS as they were offended at Ross County fans being classes as Gypo's as it would be damaging to there reputation

[old caley girl]

Has it crossed anyones mind that the complainants may actually be Gypsy Travellers? If it were them they are bound to be offended are they not? They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

There are many who see it as banter to refer to RC supporters as Gypsies and who get a laugh out of inferring that Gypsies are dirty or lawbreakers or, indeed, live in caravans and some of those claim not to be racist but the very inference in itself is racist.

Don't get me wrong here. I've made my caravan jokes etc, just like everyone else, and I see it as no more than banter but when the big arm of the law threatens action then its time to change. This was never a problem in our previous times in the same league as County because the recognition of Race for Travellers did not exist. It does now and if one person is offended then the club have to be seen to act.

Good post Alex. I agree with what you say but nowadays so called pc complaints seem to rarely come from the group concerned whcould have cause to be offended. eg people getting their knickers in a twist re Christmas springs to mind.

[stevico1]

In Romania the word for gypsy is tigani pronounced "teegany" irrelevant I know but just thought I would let you know

Edited October 3, 2009 by stevico1

[davie]

Has it crossed anyones mind that the complainants may actually be Gypsy Travellers? If it were them they are bound to be offended are they not? They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

There are many who see it as banter to refer to RC supporters as Gypsies and who get a laugh out of inferring that Gypsies are dirty or lawbreakers or, indeed, live in caravans and some of those claim not to be racist but the very inference in itself is racist.

Don't get me wrong here. I've made my caravan jokes etc, just like everyone else, and I see it as no more than banter but when the big arm of the law threatens action then its time to change. This was never a problem in our previous times in the same league as County because the recognition of Race for Travellers did not exist. It does now and if one person is offended then the club have to be seen to act.

Good post Alex. I agree with what you say but nowadays so called pc complaints seem to rarely come from the group concerned whcould have cause to be offended. eg people getting their knickers in a twist re Christmas springs to mind.

I'm with you here old girl. I don't see why the threat of the law should be a signal to roll over. There's a fine tradition of resistance in Scotland, but for important stuff like the poll tax or the miners strike, not trivial sh*te like this. And i'm still asking, is "arab" out of bounds? Is "hun" out of bounds? Context you see!

[Alex MacLeod]

DU fans became known as arabs after the team was forced to lay tonnes of sand on the pitch to combat the winter weather after the thirteenth postponement of a cup tie. At no time does opposition fans infer that DU fans live like the race of peoples from the middle east. That race are good honest clean living people who'd cut of your hand if you steal. Unlike DU fans

I believe the word hun has reference to the followers of the house of hanover. A royal household thats slowly dying out.

Whether using either is racist I dont know.

[stevico1]

DU fans became known as arabs after the team was forced to lay tonnes of sand on the pitch to combat the winter weather after the thirteenth postponement of a cup tie. At no time does opposition fans infer that DU fans live like the race of peoples from the middle east. That race are good honest clean living people who'd cut of your hand if you steal. Unlike DU fans

I believe the word hun has reference to the followers of the house of hanover. A royal household thats slowly dying out.

Whether using either is racist I dont know.

Think thats probably part of the problem now Alex people don't know what's racist and what's not. This country has gone so PC its beyond a joke.

[alimci]

Hun: A member of a nomadic pastoralist people who invaded Europe in the fourth and fifth centuries A.D.

Whoops!

[Renegade]

Looks like the County fans also think this has all gone a bit nuts.

http://www.overthebridge.info/viewthread.p...8412&page=2

Edited October 3, 2009 by Renegade

[Joonya]

Off topic I know, but I had to point out the signature of FilthyStaggie - "I want to be Craig Brewster when I grow up"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

brew.bmp

[Yngwie]

They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

[Yngwie]

I'm not aware of any Dundee fans ever getting into bother for chanting "Dirty Arab b******s" at their rivals.

Yet that chant is at least as racist as it would be if you substituted Arab with Gypsy, in that it makes the derogatory inference that Arabs are both dirty and bastards, making it racist in the eyes of those who choose to see it that way. Everyone knows the Utd fans are not true Arabs, but the chant could still offend those who are, and that is the same in our case.

This whole gypsy thing is just nonsense.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Yngwie

[Johnboy]

The gypsy thing is totally feckin stupid, but no doubt the police would say no one's actually submitted a complaint about the "dirty Arab B******s chant.

[stevico1]

I'm not aware of any Dundee fans ever getting into bother for chanting "Dirty Arab b******s" at their rivals.

Yet that chant is at least as racist as it would be if you substituted Arab with Gypsy, in that it makes the derogatory inference that Arabs are both dirty and ********, making it racist in the eyes of those who choose to see it that way. Everyone knows the Utd fans are not true Arabs, but the chant could still offend those who are, and that is the same in our case.

This whole gypsy thing is just nonsense.

I was watching soccer am today and they had a picture of some army regiment with about 6 United fans on top of a tank in somewhere that looked like the Middle East with a big flag with "The Arabs" on it, brilliant

Edited October 3, 2009 by stevico1

[Alex MacLeod]

They're are many Travellers settled in Inverness and I'm sure some of them even support ICT.

Yep! They've settled because of the persecution when they travel.

[SMEE]

There are plenty of apt...non law breaking slaggings you could justifyibly aim at the gypos......"great unwashed", "Soap Dodgers" among them. thats not breaking any laws!

[stevico1]

To me one the saddest thing of the lot is that one of the advantages we could take from dropping down from the SPL would be the crack in the SFL, from this thread its apparent even thats not there anymore

Edited October 3, 2009 by stevico1

[Alex MacLeod]

So our new chant should be:

Tune: Cannae shove yir granny:

You cannae hae a laugh at the match

Oh you cannae hae a laugh at the match

You cannae hae a laugh cos the laughter cops aboot

You cannae hae a laugh at the match (or yir oot)

[Johnboy]

So our new chant should be:

Tune: Cannae shove yir granny:

You cannae hae a laugh at the match

Oh you cannae hae a laugh at the match

You cannae hae a laugh cos the laughter cops aboot

You cannae hae a laugh at the match (or yir oot)

No.... You can't have that in case it offends someone's granny.

[Alex MacLeod]

Tis only the tune I'm using John, not the granny