Tokely Offski - to Countski

[Alex MacLeod]

I'm not a big fan of Butcher. I think he has a very aggresive nature. Something that held him in good stead as a player but not sure its the right way as a manager. What I will say though is that I believe he has an agenda. An agenda to get that top six place. And I believe we need to support him in trying to achieve that. Butcher knows that his reputation will be based on him making and building a successful team. In my book he has one more season to achieve it. And if I get the 106 million I'll help him.

[PaderbornCaley]

if I get the 106 million I'll help him.

Who's the first signings going to be? Tokely? Munro?

I want to say the generic all the best comment but he has gone to our rivals and potential relegation battlers, so although i can't wish him all the best with County I won't hold a grudge. He is and will forever be a Caley Thistle legend. Some people may think it was all a plot to get rid of him all along, some people may think that we simply can't afford him. What ever the reasons and the blame the following stats are incredible:

ICT have played in 18 football seasons. Tokely played in 16 of them!

Tokely played for ICT in Dvision 3, 2, 1, SPL.

He has played under every ICT manager apart from Baltacha. Paterson, Robertson, Brewster, Christie, Butcher

He played in front of the Howden end for a few months before moving to Caledonian Stadium.

With ICT he has won Division 3, runner up in Division 2, Division 1 (twice),

He is an ICT hero and legend.

But now he has gone. What does the future bring for Caley Thistle? No idea. It appears to be gloomy but he was going to always leave at some point. ICT will go on. We may or may not uncover some gems this summer. We may or may not have a good season. I don't know, but despite the loss of another key player, I am looking forward to it. I don't know who Gary Warren is. I probably won't know the player we will sign after him, but I can't wait to see them in action.

[Renegade]

Fraser

Nah, Fraser had signed a pre-contract with Motherwell before Butcher came. Apparently he couldn't stand the thought of working with Brewster for any longer!

Give it a rest Renegade about everything being TBs fault. Tokely was offered a contract, we/I don't know what it was and neither do we know what County offered him. If they want to make him their first choice defender so be it but if they do it will be big risk in my opinion.

Oh please! Do you really believe Butcher wanted to keep him? I banged on for months that Butcher's wanted him gone and lo and behold at the seasons end, Tokely's away, in much the same fashion as Grant Munro. It must have been a pretty poor deal for someone like Tokely to turn it down, far less to go and sign for County! If anything, this gives more fuel to the fire in his stance that he was badly treated by the boss - and he's not the first to come out with such a scathing remark.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's people on this site who, if Butcher said the sky was green, would argue that it was so. Butcher is the master of spin, but some minds will be turning soon.

[Doofer]

Once we all knew that the offer made to rossco was a poor one i for one knew that county would come straight in for him. He and his family are very settled in the area and county know this. He will be very badly missed at ICT and county's defence is looking good for the up coming season. The are not going to be easy to breeak down and i think the panic button has been well and truely pushed.

[Oddquine]

Was the Ross County deal any better...anybody know? Or had Tokely just painted himself into a corner where all he could do to save face was to stick the proverbial two fingers up at Butcher and ICT?

Just asking.

[Oddquine]

Once we all knew that the offer made to rossco was a poor one i for one knew that county would come straight in for him. He and his family are very settled in the area and county know this. He will be very badly missed at ICT and county's defence is looking good for the up coming season. The are not going to be easy to breeak down and i think the panic button has been well and truely pushed.

Oh crap! would that be the same panic button that has been being pressed with such monotonous regularity all last season?

[lukemackay]

Fraser

Nah, Fraser had signed a pre-contract with Motherwell before Butcher came. Apparently he couldn't stand the thought of working with Brewster for any longer!

Give it a rest Renegade about everything being TBs fault. Tokely was offered a contract, we/I don't know what it was and neither do we know what County offered him. If they want to make him their first choice defender so be it but if they do it will be big risk in my opinion.

Oh please! Do you really believe Butcher wanted to keep him? I banged on for months that Butcher's wanted him gone and lo and behold at the seasons end, Tokely's away, in much the same fashion as Grant Munro. It must have been a pretty poor deal for someone like Tokely to turn it down, far less to go and sign for County! If anything, this gives more fuel to the fire in his stance that he was badly treated by the boss - and he's not the first to come out with such a scathing remark.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's people on this site who, if Butcher said the sky was green, would argue that it was so. Butcher is the master of spin, but some minds will be turning soon.

oh watch out renegade the right comes in. remember folks he told us so. hes perfect.

get in touch with cameron, if anyone other than you is named next ict manager, i might just stop supporting them.

its all an agenda.

give us a fecking break rene.

[+Fraz]

If he scores and celebrates il boo him. If he doesnt il maintain some respect for him.

But can't say I'm happy with him.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages?

to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps

So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher.

Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps?

[CaleyD]

Once we all knew that the offer made to rossco was a poor one i for one knew that county would come straight in for him. He and his family are very settled in the area and county know this. He will be very badly missed at ICT and county's defence is looking good for the up coming season. The are not going to be easy to breeak down and i think the panic button has been well and truely pushed.

I believe Tokelys other half works in Aberdeen and he spends all his spare time there so the "settled in the area" theory doesn't really stack up....hence my slight surprise that the stories of him signing for C*unty, which have been going around since before the season ended, actually came to fruition.

My biggest worry for next season is our own support....or a small but vocal section of them who are more present on these forums than they appear to be at games. Some seem unwilling/unable to get beyond Munro having being moved on and are caught in the mindset that the Tokely scenario is exactly the same. No appreciation for the fact that he WAS offered a contract and making assumption that it was a contract designed to make him leave. Those people seem so locked in to that negative mindset that you can be sure they will be practically wishing failure on the team (again) this season so they can deliver a stream of "told you so's"....as if their opinions being vindicated in such a manner is more important than the clubs success.

I hope that people can achieve a bit of perspective, snap out of it and get fully behind the team before the start of the season.

[lukemackay]

If he scores and celebrates il boo him. If he doesnt il maintain some respect for him.

But can't say I'm happy with him.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages?

to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps

So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher.

Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps?

not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer.

i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years.

i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me.

[Doofer]

Once we all knew that the offer made to rossco was a poor one i for one knew that county would come straight in for him. He and his family are very settled in the area and county know this. He will be very badly missed at ICT and county's defence is looking good for the up coming season. The are not going to be easy to breeak down and i think the panic button has been well and truely pushed.

Oh crap! would that be the same panic button that has been being pressed with such monotonous regularity all last season?

I never paniced last season, was a horrific season for injuries and i dont think once we have the strongest 11 on the pitch. If we had limited injuries this season and kept the spaud together i would have been very hopeful for the coming season butover a 1/3 of the first 11 have now left the club. Should i not be worried?

[Renegade]

oh watch out renegade the right comes in. remember folks he told us so.

I posted in November that Tokely was going to leave. I made no other guarantees about any other players. I turned out to be right.

hes perfect.

Why thank you! :love02:

get in touch with cameron, if anyone other than you is named next ict manager, i might just stop supporting them.

Oh no! I better get on the phone quick! How will the club support without the amazing support of Luke MacKay!

its all an agenda.

I said Butcher wanted rid of Tokely. The more time goes on, this seems more and more likely.

give us a fecking break rene.

Lol! In simple translation this means: "Please stop posting stuff I disagree with! I don't know how to counter you!" I'm the one who calls things as I see them. If you look back through my posts over the last couple of years, I've not been at all as negative as some make out. You are the who tiresomely posts that everything is dandy no matter what. You will be the one who'll be having a surprise or two, when it all comes crashing down.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Renegade

[PullMyFinger]

And if I get the 106 million I'll help him.

If I get the £126 million (yes Alex 126), I will no longer feel the need for an escape from my mundane life that ICT affords me. You won't see me for dust.

I may buy Ibrox and plant tatties though.

[Doofer]

Once we all knew that the offer made to rossco was a poor one i for one knew that county would come straight in for him. He and his family are very settled in the area and county know this. He will be very badly missed at ICT and county's defence is looking good for the up coming season. The are not going to be easy to breeak down and i think the panic button has been well and truely pushed.

I believe Tokelys other half works in Aberdeen and he spends all his spare time there so the "settled in the area" theory doesn't really stack up....hence my slight surprise that the stories of him signing for C*unty, which have been going around since before the season ended, actually came to fruition.

My biggest worry for next season is our own support....or a small but vocal section of them who are more present on these forums than they appear to be at games. Some seem unwilling/unable to get beyond Munro having being moved on and are caught in the mindset that the Tokely scenario is exactly the same. No appreciation for the fact that he WAS offered a contract and making assumption that it was a contract designed to make him leave. Those people seem so locked in to that negative mindset that you can be sure they will be practically wishing failure on the team (again) this season so they can deliver a stream of "told you so's"....as if their opinions being vindicated in such a manner is more important than the clubs success.

I hope that people can achieve a bit of perspective, snap out of it and get fully behind the team before the start of the season.

My mistake, i thought his other half lived in Inverness. I will always be behind the team 100% and get to as many games as i can (bit tricky as i live near leeds) I know that the clubs finances are tight and that we can't always offer the deal that players want and its frustration more than anything that gets to the supporters as we all want the best players to stay. I dont think the majority of fans are negative or waiting for the "i told you so" moment. Just frustrated at seeing the squad chopping and chaging so regularly

[lukemackay]

oh watch out renegade the right comes in. remember folks he told us so.

I posted in November that Tokely was going to leave. I made no other guarantees about any other players. I turned out to be right.

hes perfect.

Why thank you! :love02:

get in touch with cameron, if anyone other than you is named next ict manager, i might just stop supporting them.

Oh no! I better get on the phone quick! How will the club support without the amazing support of Luke MacKay!

its all an agenda.

I said Butcher wanted rid of Tokely. The more time goes on, this seems more and more likely.

give us a fecking break rene.

Lol! In simple translation this means: "Please stop posting stuff I disagree with! I don't know how to counter you!" I'm the one who calls things as I see them. If you look back through my posts over the last couple of years, I've not been at all as negative as some make out. You are the who tiresomely posts that everything is dandy no matter what. You will be the one who'll be having a surprise or two, when it all comes crashing down.

its not a matter of i dont know how to counter you its a matter of i cant be ersed anymore, conspiracy theroies/agendas are all bullshit youre trying to shove down everyones throats, you dont take anyones views into account. and youre signature 'i told you so' sums you up. stuck up.

[gordieict]

Taking the Tokely situation aside, nothing can be done about that, I fail to see how anyone can fail to be worried about next season. We have half a squad at present and a manager who had us playing some off the worst football in our history last season. Ask yourselves this whose squad would you rather at present ours or County's?

[Renegade]

its not a matter of i dont know how to counter you its a matter of i cant be ersed anymore, conspiracy theroies/agendas are all bullshit youre trying to shove down everyones throats, you dont take anyones views into account. and youre signature 'i told you so' sums you up. stuck up.

Yet you always reply to my posts!

You can call it whatever you like. I knew at the time what I was posting was true and even had it confirmed to me by a member of the ICT staff! It's no surprise that what I said was going to happen, happened.

[gordieict]

If he scores and celebrates il boo him. If he doesnt il maintain some respect for him.

But can't say I'm happy with him.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages?

to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps

So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher.

Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps?

not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer.

i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years.

i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me.

If he scores and celebrates il boo him. If he doesnt il maintain some respect for him.

But can't say I'm happy with him.

Why shouldn't he celebrate scoring a goal for the team that pays his wages?

to show abit of respect to the fans the supported him for 16 years of his career perhaps

So no players should celebrate scoring against their former teams? (I guess the same should apply to Munro too) Depends what you regard as celebrating, a smile, a hug from teammates? I very much doubt he'd go running up to the ICT fans jumping for joy. Perhaps just a wee wave to Butcher.

Also you say you are not happy with him? I presume for moving to County, would you have been happy to help cover his mortgage, or costs for moving house instead perhaps?

not the fact he went to county, the fact he ran to the papers the instant he seen his offer.

i dont think thats the right way to go about it, a quiet word with butcher, and a goodbye in the papers, or through a club website, or something.would have surficed. the way he went to about every paper in the land and said he wasnt happy with the club, the manager etc. its not the right way to leave after 16 years.

i can understand why at our level if hes offered something better over the bridge then i have no problem with him leaving for that but its the manor that frustrates me.

The first time I have ever seen you post anything remotely negative regarding anything ICT and it's against the clubs biggest legend.

[lukemackay]

its not a matter of i dont know how to counter you its a matter of i cant be ersed anymore, conspiracy theroies/agendas are all bullshit youre trying to shove down everyones throats, you dont take anyones views into account. and youre signature 'i told you so' sums you up. stuck up.

Yet you always reply to my posts!

You can call it whatever you like. I knew at the time what I was posting was true and even had it confirmed to me by a member of the ICT staff! It's no surprise that what I said was going to happen, happened.

no! you thought.

[Renegade]

My biggest worry for next season is our own support....or a small but vocal section of them who are more present on these forums than they appear to be at games. Some seem unwilling/unable to get beyond Munro having being moved on and are caught in the mindset that the Tokely scenario is exactly the same. No appreciation for the fact that he WAS offered a contract and making assumption that it was a contract designed to make him leave. Those people seem so locked in to that negative mindset that you can be sure they will be practically wishing failure on the team (again) this season so they can deliver a stream of "told you so's"....as if their opinions being vindicated in such a manner is more important than the clubs success.

I hope that people can achieve a bit of perspective, snap out of it and get fully behind the team before the start of the season.

To quote Thomas Jefferson, "dissension is the greatest form of patriotism" or in this case supporting you're football team! Please don't get the impression that I and others go to games and don't get behind the team. I'm always behind the team at games - far more than some of those who sit in silence for ninety minutes! I also made the effort to go to every home game last season and a good chunk of away ones - I think that's a pretty good record. I just can't at this time though say I like where the club is heading and the road being taken by the current management team is what's to blame.

no! you thought.

Incorrect. If I wasn't sure that it was true, I wouldn't have posted it. I knew what I was posting would turn out to be true - it did.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Renegade

[lukemackay]

no! you thought.

Incorrect. If I wasn't sure that it was true, I wouldn't have posted it. I knew what I was posting would turn out to be true - it did.

ok so youre a prophet now? jee wizz you are just superb.

[gordieict]

My biggest worry for next season is our own support....or a small but vocal section of them who are more present on these forums than they appear to be at games. Some seem unwilling/unable to get beyond Munro having being moved on and are caught in the mindset that the Tokely scenario is exactly the same. No appreciation for the fact that he WAS offered a contract and making assumption that it was a contract designed to make him leave. Those people seem so locked in to that negative mindset that you can be sure they will be practically wishing failure on the team (again) this season so they can deliver a stream of "told you so's"....as if their opinions being vindicated in such a manner is more important than the clubs success.

I hope that people can achieve a bit of perspective, snap out of it and get fully behind the team before the start of the season.

To quote Thomas Jefferson, "dissension is the greatest form of patriotism" or in this case supporting you're football team! Please get the impression, I and others go to games and don't get behind the team. I just can't at this time though say I like where the club is heading and the road being taken by the current management team is what's to blame.

I think the fans are almost as low than during the Brewster second term. I dont think that is all down to the player departures but also the atrocious football that was served up last term. I am sure that if there is a repeat of this early in the season the unrest will get much stronger. A lot have lost faith in Butcher, and I include myself in that , hopefully I am wrong. And of course you are right Caley D it's time to get fully behind the team for next season

Edited June 7, 2012 by gordieict

[Joonya]

This thread has got really quite boring now that it's turning into an 'I told you so' slanging match...

[CaleyD]

Doofer, I wouldn't class you as one of those who seem to get more of a kick out of beating up on the club than they do from supporting it and perhaps should have made it clear that the second part of my post was not aimed at yourself, just a follow on to my thoughts on the content of this (and other threads of a similar nature).

I do understand and share the frustration and concern, I just don't necessarily agree with some people's reasoning.

ICT is where it is both financially and in terms of the squad. I don't like some of the stuff that happened to put us here and believe things could have been very different....but que sera. It's not all happened in the last couple of seasons either and I would argue that much of the damage had been done long before that and if not for some of the things done in the last few years (not all of them nice, but mostly necessary) then things could be a hell of a lot worse.

We have a choice as fans, we can keep digging up everything that has gone before to use as a stick to beat down current efforts or we can accept we are where we are and turn our efforts to improving things for the future.

In regards to Butcher....it doesn't matter who the manager was, at some point we were going to lose the last of the long standing players and club legends. Do people really think it would be any different under anyone else? We are in a situation where....like it or not....the club can only survive and compete by bringing in players with potential as opposed to proven and/or seasoned professionals of the quality some seem to expect and Butcher is better placed than any Manager we've previously had, or could reasonably expect to get, to do that.

We're never going to be producing 6 or 7 local lads who are good enough year on year to sustain what we had in the past....in many ways we are the victim of our own success in that regard because whilst we were able to bring guys like Munro, Tokely etc through the ranks along with and have them develop side by side with the club, we now have to be producing lads who can step up to the SPL pretty quickly as we have neither the time nor resources to keep them on the books year on year in the hope they make it.

We've just had our most disappointing season ever and whilst I accept that Butcher didn't always play his cards in the best manner possible, it wasn't helped by fate and circumstance pulling the aces from his hand at every turn. IMO, the fact we survived and escaped relegation despite all that is worthy of credit in itself.

If some people really think the answer is to sack the management, then I ask who we are going to replace them with and what they expect a new manager to do within the setup we have that is not being done right now. Yeah, it's sad to see Tokely leaving, just as it was sad to see Munro, Duncan, McBain, Wilson, Wyness, and dozens of other leave before them....that's football and despite the doom and gloom stories which are spouted every time it happens we are still here.

Same goes with Managers....not everyone likes Butcher, but not everyone has liked any of our previous managers and nor will the all like any future managers. That's fine, but not liking someone doesn't give you free rein to invest stuff and dish out abuse. Again, I'm not getting at you, but some of the stuff that's been posted on this forum lately in that regard has been nothing short of disgusting and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but as with a few of the other threads and trends on here just now, some people do need to look at the bigger picture, appreciate that we have no right to anything and are in a financial position which means we need to operate in a way which is a bit out of the normally accepted/expected parameters. It might not be the most pleasant, certainly at times like this when we are all wondering/worrying about what next season will bring.

At the end of the day we each have a choice....we accept our lot are work together to improve it, or we start throwing around the insults and abuse and add to an already difficult situation!!!! That's not to say we can't criticise or comment, but it needs to be done in a constructive fashion.

[gordieict]

Doofer, I wouldn't class you as one of those who seem to get more of a kick out of beating up on the club than they do from supporting it and perhaps should have made it clear that the second part of my post was not aimed at yourself, just a follow on to my thoughts on the content of this (and other threads of a similar nature).

I do understand and share the frustration and concern, I just don't necessarily agree with some people's reasoning.

ICT is where it is both financially and in terms of the squad. I don't like some of the stuff that happened to put us here and believe things could have been very different....but que sera. It's not all happened in the last couple of seasons either and I would argue that much of the damage had been done long before that and if not for some of the things done in the last few years (not all of them nice, but mostly necessary) then things could be a hell of a lot worse.

We have a choice as fans, we can keep digging up everything that has gone before to use as a stick to beat down current efforts or we can accept we are where we are and turn our efforts to improving things for the future.

In regards to Butcher....it doesn't matter who the manager was, at some point we were going to lose the last of the long standing players and club legends. Do people really think it would be any different under anyone else? We are in a situation where....like it or not....the club can only survive and compete by bringing in players with potential as opposed to proven and/or seasoned professionals of the quality some seem to expect and Butcher is better placed than any Manager we've previously had, or could reasonably expect to get, to do that.

We're never going to be producing 6 or 7 local lads who are good enough year on year to sustain what we had in the past....in many ways we are the victim of our own success in that regard because whilst we were able to bring guys like Munro, Tokely etc through the ranks along with and have them develop side by side with the club, we now have to be producing lads who can step up to the SPL pretty quickly as we have neither the time nor resources to keep them on the books year on year in the hope they make it.

We've just had our most disappointing season ever and whilst I accept that Butcher didn't always play his cards in the best manner possible, it wasn't helped by fate and circumstance pulling the aces from his hand at every turn. IMO, the fact we survived and escaped relegation despite all that is worthy of credit in itself.

If some people really think the answer is to sack the management, then I ask who we are going to replace them with and what they expect a new manager to do within the setup we have that is not being done right now. Yeah, it's sad to see Tokely leaving, just as it was sad to see Munro, Duncan, McBain, Wilson, Wyness, and dozens of other leave before them....that's football and despite the doom and gloom stories which are spouted every time it happens we are still here.

Same goes with Managers....not everyone likes Butcher, but not everyone has liked any of our previous managers and nor will the all like any future managers. That's fine, but not liking someone doesn't give you free rein to invest stuff and dish out abuse. Again, I'm not getting at you, but some of the stuff that's been posted on this forum lately in that regard has been nothing short of disgusting and it serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but as with a few of the other threads and trends on here just now, some people do need to look at the bigger picture, appreciate that we have no right to anything and are in a financial position which means we need to operate in a way which is a bit out of the normally accepted/expected parameters. It might not be the most pleasant, certainly at times like this when we are all wondering/worrying about what next season will bring.

At the end of the day we each have a choice....we accept our lot are work together to improve it, or we start throwing around the insults and abuse and add to an already difficult situation!!!! That's not to say we can't criticise or comment, but it needs to be done in a constructive fashion.

There is something I am not understanding and that is down to my lack of knowledge of the clubs finances so this is not a criticism but a question. Are we worse of than every other SPL club at present (rangers aside)and if not why are we the only side without half a squad at present, is that really bad finances or bad management?