Richie Foran new manager

[rocky1]

Is it time to call it quits with John Hughes acknowledging he has brought success to the club but it appears he has run his course .

Great coach but obviously not capable of building a team from lower league players that we can afford.

Give Richie a chance and give him a Donald Park or Kevin Macdonald as coach ( the latter did no bad with Leicester as we can see )

[Renegade]

If the scenario did come up, I would undoubtedly prefer Kevin MacDonald as manager with Foran as assistant than the other way (that's if MacDonald would want to move back up here anyway).

I must admit, the whole Foran-for-manager stuff has never sat right with me.  Now don't get me wrong, Foran's been our captain for years now and he's been a great player but just parachuting him doesn't sit with me.  Yes, he's been a talismanic player and a great leader but that doesn't mean he's going to be a great manager.  Tony Adams was a great captain but he was a rubbish manager.  Many fans of other clubs would also point out Terry Butcher as falling into the same bracket.  And it's not just that.  What coaching experience does Foran have?  What contacts does he have?  What does he know about scouting and training and tactics?  There's also the case as well is that in any job, it's not always a good idea to promote someone from being 'one of the lads' to the boss.

Now that's not to say I'm writing him off forever and saying I wouldn't want him ever, but before he takes the top job here, I'd rather he even left the club and made his way up the leagues in his own right like Paul Hartley did.  It's a no from me, for now.

[Kingsmills]

37 minutes ago, rocky1 said:

Is it time to call it quits with John Hughes acknowledging he has brought success to the club but it appears he has run his course .

Great coach but obviously not capable of building a team from lower league players that we can afford.

Give Richie a chance and give him a Donald Park or Kevin Macdonald as coach ( the latter did no bad with Leicester as we can see )

What on earth makes you believe JH is a great coach ? We have seen very little evidence of that.

[Charles Bannerman]

With the relegation playoffs and the top six both possible but unlikely, what a BRILLIANT time to start a thread like this

A look at Kevin's CV  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_MacDonald_(footballer)  may give some insight into the chances of a club with a budget like ICT's being able to meet his likely financial requirements. And that's before you even consider the likelihood of someone who has been 22 years in management accepting a post as assistant to someone with no management experience at all!

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Charles Bannerman

[rocky1]

48 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

What on earth makes you believe JH is a great coach ? We have seen very little evidence of that.

Is he not one of the coaches who coaches the coaches at Largs?

[Eagle4Caley]

45 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

What on earth makes you believe JH is a great coach ? We have seen very little evidence of that.

'Great' is an over-used word, but surely the best league position achieved by ICT in 2013/14, bettered in 2014/15, a League cup final, a Scottish cup win, followed by a semi-final appearance, all on what must be the lowest or 2nd lowest budget in the SPL, playing a style that although frustrating at times, isn't just hit and hope, with classy wins amongst the mix is worthy of some credit. Not a 'Great' coach perhaps, but a pretty decent one....if last years over-achievement was in part due to few injuries, and a nucleus of decent players now gone on to 'bigger' things(?) then this years under-achievement is in part down to poor luck with injuries and average luck on recruitment (and let's face it BIG clubs get that wrong all the time)

Not yet time for Richie in my book, sentiment only gets you so far, what evidence is there that RF is a better manager than JH

Edited April 7, 2016 by Eagle4Caley

[rocky1]

46 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

With the relegation playoffs and the top six both possible but unlikely, what a BRILLIANT time to start a thread like this

A look at Kevin's CV  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_MacDonald_(footballer)  may give some insight into the chances of a club with a budget like ICT's being able to meet his likely financial requirements. And that's before you even consider the likelihood of someone who has been 22 years in management accepting a post as assistant to someone with no management experience at all!

 

Swindon is only team he managed excepting reserve teams ! Also has he not made it known that he prefers the assistant' s job and coach . Affordability is another issue

[Sneckboy]

1 hour ago, rocky1 said:

Is it time to call it quits with John Hughes acknowledging he has brought success to the club but it appears he has run his course .

Great coach but obviously not capable of building a team from lower league players that we can afford.

Give Richie a chance and give him a Donald Park or Kevin Macdonald as coach ( the latter did no bad with Leicester as we can see )

I may be misinterpreting you, but are you really crediting Kevin MacDonald with the current, astonishing form of Leicester - a club he has had no connection with for over 22 years?

[Scotty]

not sure what badges Richie has (if any) but it is a requirement that a manager has their UEFA Pro license before managing in the top flight. If he doesnt have that he cant manage for any more than 12 weeks as a caretaker. 

Who would want to be a football manager anyway !!! Last year he was manager of the year and half the town would have donated a kidney if he needed one ...  this year he apparently cant do anything right and the same half of the town wouldn't p*** on him if he was on fire !! 

For me - I am in the middle. Disappointed at how our season has gone, but mindful that apart from the tactical errors that every manager makes, our season has had its own issues with injuries, the loss of key players to injury and transfers and the budget constraints that we always have to operate in. Hes doing the best he can with whats available to him and the high bar he set last year is coming back to bite him on the arse (as expected). 

 

 

[Alex MacLeod]

Dont know how far RF is with coaching qualifications but I believe he has been working on them with support of Kenny C. I'm with Renegade on this one. Lets see RF in a coaching role with under a decent experienced manager for a time before throwing him to the lions. That could be at TCS or it could be at another club. Most decent managers cut there teeth under others and gain knowledge and experience from them before stepping up.

[bdu98196]

I'm not overly impressed with how our form has dipper, our style of play recently and some of JH comments in the press, however I'm not one to call for someone to loose their job. Regarding RF, other than an appearance in the cup game V hibs where oddly he got 90mins yet seems to be on the bench again and never near even a sub appearance - is it wrong to wonder if there is an underlying story about his fitness? As for RF taking over as manager what has he done over the layoff period to demonstrate coaching skills, is he a leader and does he have the attributes to be a successful coach - I don't know the guy so cant comment, however I can say that during match days Esson appears much more proactive in talking with the management and players than RF - perhaps we should be asking if Esson might be a better option for stepping up in the coaching team (although keepers rarely make it as anything other than keeper coaches).

My feeling is that an RF appointment would be a short one and when I look around the club for suitable players to move into management (again without knowing them as people) I would suggest that Warren comes across as a determined, driven, motivated leader on the park with that bit of intelligence that could make him a success. However Yogi has a contract and unless either another club comes in to 'sign' him, he decides to walk away (why would he) then he will see that contract out as ICT are not in the financial position to pay off him and his backroom team - therefore making this thread pointless and redundant for another 2 seasons.

Edited April 8, 2016 by bdu98196

[Guest]

i think we need a reality check at times. 

[ictfcsince94]

1 minute ago, oats said:

i think we need a reality check at times. 

^this! 

We are after-all a 'survival-first' club. So in that respect its a bit hard to judge JH this season because it's still a bit up in the air, but I'd like think we ARE safe...

we don't have the finances to sack a manager and it's crazy I think that people on here are suggesting a player who is totally unproven in management! 

Last seasons highs have definitely left some of us a bit disillusioned! As much as I expect and hope that in a FEW years something similar may happen, but given the nature of the clubs finances are that we will sell on players, it's difficult to hold onto a strong nucleus to allow this to happen year after year. It actually reminds me of the salary cap idea in the NFL! 

Yogi's going nowhere, well he certainly won't be pushed. Foran won't be our next manger.  

[Libero]

No one can disagree that last season was epic so this year was always going to be back to earth with a bump however last year Hughes was working with essentially a Butcher team with a few additions of JH's. I think JH's efforts last season more than merit him being given a chance to form his own team next season and recruit what he thinks to be a competitive SPL team. We are in a transitional stage this season (as we usually are at the end of most seasons) due to the nature of contracts we offer, however hopefully he can retain the core of the current team and supplement it with some of his own recruits. I am prepared to give JH a chance but I certainly hope his recruiting is better than it has been!

I can see Foran taking charge of this team eventually but dont think it'll be for a couple of seasons

[forresjags]

Has Foran even got the right temperament to become a successful manager. Brilliant player and motivator on the park but also seen him laying into his own  players when the going gets tough.

    

[Charles Bannerman]

11 hours ago, Eagle4Caley said:

'Great' is an over-used word, 

Yup. Such as by the outrageously hyperbolic American commentator who once famously proclaimed "Colin Montgomerie is a great athlete"!!!!

[ictfcsince94]

7 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Yup. Such as by the outrageously hyperbolic American commentator who once famously proclaimed "Colin Montgomerie is a great athlete"!!!!

[Guest]

ok the reality check comment was a bit harsh but lets be realistic, what makes anyone think that Kevin MacDonald would even be interested? because he is from Inverness? When was the last time MacDonald was in Inverness. Just because thats where he was born doesnt mean jack sh1t, he can earn a hell of a lot more down South 

[gingerjaggy]

I agree with most of the posters that it is pretty over reactive to call for hughes's head and replace him with someone who is unproven even if he is a big part of the club. Now it isn't in stone but the fact that he has confirmed that we are targeting the three partick lads would suggest that we do have some decent players lined up. The fact that the signings havent been great this season is just part of the size of the club we are. Look at butcher, his first few seasons were hit and miss on recruitment but unfortunately that is always the risk of the unknown. We can scout and Yogi can watch them in person but it will never give you an absolute picture unless they have Scottish football experience. Add in the location and having to settle in some players just don't work out and don't show their proper potential but may go and fit in at another club better and look world beaters. Look at Angel Di Maria, he was very impressive for PSG against Man City and was one of Real Madrid's best players but never did at United and struggled to adapt to the premier league so it happens at the top of world football too. Yes the signings have been honking this season and the football has been a major drag but as has been alluded to in another topic on late goals we would have comfortably been top six this season so would people have moaned as much? He gets the summer to put a true stamp on his team and we shall see if it works or not but the contributing factor is we can't afford to change so debate over.

[Kingsmills]

7 hours ago, ictfcsince94 said:

^this! 

We are after-all a 'survival-first' club. So in that respect its a bit hard to judge JH this season because it's still a bit up in the air, but I'd like think we ARE safe...

we don't have the finances to sack a manager and it's crazy I think that people on here are suggesting a player who is totally unproven in management! 

Last seasons highs have definitely left some of us a bit disillusioned! As much as I expect and hope that in a FEW years something similar may happen, but given the nature of the clubs finances are that we will sell on players, it's difficult to hold onto a strong nucleus to allow this to happen year after year. It actually reminds me of the salary cap idea in the NFL! 

Yogi's going nowhere, well he certainly won't be pushed. Foran won't be our next manger.  

There is no question of sacking the manager, poor as our season has been, as you rightly say, he has recently been given an extended contract and we would be struggling to afford to apart from anything else.

However, it is complacent and premature to suggest that we are safe. Our form over the last few weeks has been dire and we probably need another eight points or so to be comfortable. A win tomorrow though and we can at least feel relatively confident of avoiding the automatic relegation place.

 

 

[caleyboy]

If we end up being relegated then so be it. IMO this would mean part-time football  in the second tier and then probably in the third tier. What would the point be in trying to get back to the top tier when we are not structured to establish ourselves without "money problems".

A sad viewpoint I know but our "no debt" structure only puts pressure on the manager who gets it in the neck from some fans.

How do we achieve our top level, full-time status? Over to you Mr Cameron - time to tell the fans how you intend to achieve this - alternatively how do the board see our future? 

 

 

[+MrCaleyjag]

To answer your question in the title, in one word no for two reasons: firstly it would be very foolish in my opinion to make our next appointment an unknown commodity with no experience at managing a club and secondly I think at this stage it would be a mistake to get rid of John Hughes with all that he has had to deal with this year.

I'm prepared to give him one more season then judge a little more critically and that's saying something as Caleyjag will profess as I have been a big critic this season but I also understand the reasons for our 'slump' if you want to label it anything.

I've heard little to suggest or seen little to install confidence that RF would make any difference at all, it's not the type appointment that I would welcome. Maybe given a few years experience at coaching level or assistant manager level but not just now.

I also think it's extremely disrespectful to talk about the next manager when we have one in place and to be honest we could be in a far worse position than we are just now, read my thread titled 'You're the manager, what do you do' as I'm not going to repeat myself again, you'll all be sick of it.

[Renegade]

Can someone who wants Foran installed as manager answer these questions - what management/coaching experience does he have? What does he know about training? What does he know about tactics? What does he know about contract deals and scouting? If the answer for any of these is 'He doesn't' then he's not qualified to be the manager, not yet anyway. 

[Alex MacLeod]

14 hours ago, Renegade said:

Can someone who wants Foran installed as manager answer these questions - what management/coaching experience does he have? What does he know about training? What does he know about tactics? What does he know about contract deals and scouting? If the answer for any of these is 'He doesn't' then he's not qualified to be the manager, not yet anyway. 

What did any manager know before they took the first step? Christie, Brewster, Robertson and every other manager in football started somewhere. Those I've named cut their teeth at ICT and didn't actually do a bad job in the beginning.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Caley Jags sums it up for me. It's remarkable that we even came so close to top 6, let alone be alive and kicking  despite so many setbacks.

Injurie galore and the devastating loss of a significant portion of our best players before our  new uniforms had even got dirt on them--what some folks expect from the very experienced John Hughes is unrealistic to say the least. He's not a magician with a magic wand, just a good coach doing what he humanly can with an obviously very restricted budget. He  only won us the Scottish cup and finished very high last season which, let's be honest came as a very satisfying  surprise to all of us.

What we need at this stage is a steady, very experienced hand on the tiller by a man who has already proven his worth  when he had the opportunity and playing personnel to do so.  To suggest we remove or replace him with another, probably unknown, quantity before he has hardly even had his feet under the table  is ridiculous, inexperienced knee-jerkism and fanciful thinking at best. 

His signings and development of players should be lauded, not easily forgotten. And, when R Christie took off for the  bright lights of Glasgow, his loss was not Hughes' fault but surely as much as anything because of his training and guidance for the young man- which shows he still has it up top, football wise.

To appoint a person  to the Manager's position who has great football talent and energy but without, apparently, any - on - the - job experience in that role would, at this point in the club's development, probably be  reckless both for the club and for that person's own onward progression in his chosen career. Assistant manager, possibly, but not to be sent into the lion's den  in full charge of the team--all the book learning and reading in the world is no substitute for the real time, on the job experiences of life. To be frank, one needs a few losses and crushing experiences in life to grow, develop and mature and in this particular situation the potential devastation of same could simply not be worth it.