Cove @ home Dec2024

[+DoofersDad]

Credit where credit is due.  Cove came with a game plan and executed it brilliantly.  They knew that we would come out looking to be positive and they pressed us really hard giving us very little time of the ball and forcing errors.  Our approach left us a little short at the back and this was exploited by quick, well supported breaks.  It was a high energy, high risk strategy and with just 5 subs on the bench it probably took us by surprise.  It paid off for them with 2 early goals helped by some rather panicked defending.  Their high energy pressing game was not sustainable and they were happy to sit a bit deeper and soak up pressure after the 2 goals.  We pulled one back and had we been a bit more clinical we could have got an equaliser before half time.  Had we done so, I would have fancied us to win.  Alas it was not to be.

We then conceded a very soft 3rd goal early in the 2nd half which knocked the confidence out of the team.  Just when the team most needed the support of the home fans, many of our "fans" turned against the team, further denting the confidence.  Time and again players would simply pass square, or back so that the responsibility for trying to do something positive was passed on with the ball.  Only Longstaff was showing any real attacking intent.  Meanwhile Cove continued to press aggressively whenever we did find a bit of space.  They also deployed the tactic of feigning injury whenever they were tackled which allowed the rest of the team to have a minute or two to catch their breath.  Their attitude was exemplified by Doyle who went up for a set piece late in the game with them with a 2 goal advantage.  The ball went out for a goal kick which Musa was looking to take quickly.  Doyle got his head down and literally sprinted back into his own half, shouted instructions to his team mates and then won the header from Musa's long kick.

We were far from our best today and the way Cove  out-thought, out-fort and out-played us will have damaged the players' confidence.  As Charles so rightly says, these young players desperately need the support of the fans in this particularly difficult time for the club.  Late in the game one of our lads got behind the defence and put a ball into the box.  It wasn't a great ball and the keeper comfortably gathered it, but at least the lad had got into the good position and played the ball into the box.  Next time, a better ball might result in a goal.  Some of us applauded  his effort but one loud voice several rows down shouted "You're f***ing useless" at the young lad.  How the hell is that going to help anyone?  Next time the lad might not run into the space  or will look for a safer ball to play so he doesn't get abused like that.  If you are moronic enough to abuse your own players, at least have the decency to do it from the South Stand.  After all, it only helps one team - and it is not ICT.

 

[tm4tj]

 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

Credit where credit is due

Sorry, but no.  We were beaten 4-1.  End of.

[ClickbaitProponent]

The only thing that went in our favour was that Annan lost too. January is going to be critical for our season as we have our game in hand against Queens, and we also play Dumbarton and Annan - all 3 are must win games.

[bishbashbosh]

8 minutes ago, ClickbaitProponent said:

The only thing that went in our favour was that Annan lost too. January is going to be critical for our season as we have our game in hand against Queens, and we also play Dumbarton and Annan - all 3 are must win games.

QOS 1 … ANNAN 1,  87 min pen

every point is precious at the bottom.

Edited December 29, 2024 by bishbashbosh

[big cherly]

21 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

and the team and management have been doing a damned good job of helping to rescue it from a situation that isn’t of their making

Here we go again!!  Simply devoid of the football facts. I will continue to refute any excuse that the current management and players had no part in the club being relegated last season. It is delusional to spout - ‘It was all the fault of the previous managers, RM, SG and Board’. The sooner we stop feeling sorry for ourselves and coming up with excuses the better I believe we will perform. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by big cherly

[STFU]

Regardless of views on ability of players coaches and management we are where we are and don't have the means or resources to change it.

People are entitled to express their displeasure at poor performances but they need to check their expectations and appreciate that negativity may not help.

As a side note I didn't hear anything which I would have said was abusive. I also didn't see any players not trying but a few did seem to go into their shells a bit.

Not saying we should be heaping false praise on them but perhaps a positive and understanding crowd would be more encouraging to get them out of it again.

[Charles Bannerman]

4 hours ago, big cherly said:

Here we go again!!  Simply devoid of the football facts. I will continue to refute any excuse that the current management and players had no part in the club being relegated last season. It is delusional to spout - ‘It was all the fault of the previous managers, RM, SG and Board’. The sooner we stop feeling sorry for ourselves and coming up with excuses the better I believe we will perform. 

The current management team had no or virtually no influence over the dire situation that prevailed across the club when the administrators took over in October.

On the football side, the buck stopped with Duncan Ferguson as manager, and since his departure there has been a marked overall improvement in performance, despite the loss of a number of players. Then in turn, Ferguson’s very probably wrong appointment was the responsibility of the Board and specifically of Scot Gardiner who went out of his way publicly to claim “credit” for that appointment.

However, in the grander scheme of things, I don’t believe that more technical football factors are most responsible for the mess this club got into. Results were simply the end product of a chain of incompetence. From a point years ago, not all that long after winning the Scottish Cup, this club was seriously corporately mismanaged, and in a manner that got progressively worse under the Morrison-Gardiner partnership. I’m not again going into stuff like the unbelievable manner in which the directors and CEO sat for years and watched debt accumulate as the club descended into administrative torpor, but that’s the root cause of this entire disaster. However now that Gardiner, Morrison and, less fundamentally, Ferguson have gone, new club management and governance from top to tail needs to be given every chance to try to rescue a situation that, we hope, is not beyond salvation.

A mercifully small rump of idiots in the stand booing a group of people who are doing their best to play their part in sorting this - simply because said “fans” haven’t received their necessary dose of self-gratification - isn’t part of this worthy effort.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Charles Bannerman

[big cherly]

1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

The current management team had no or virtually no influence over the dire situation that prevailed across the club when the administrators took over in October.

On the football side, the buck stopped with Duncan Ferguson as manager, and since his departure there has been a marked overall improvement in performance, despite the loss of a number of players. Then in turn, Ferguson’s very probably wrong appointment was the responsibility of the Board and specifically of Scot Gardiner who went out of his way publicly to claim “credit” for that appointment.

However, in the grander scheme of things, I don’t believe that more technical football factors are most responsible for the mess this club got into. Results were simply the end product of a chain of incompetence. From a point years ago, not all that long after winning the Scottish Cup, this club was seriously corporately mismanaged, and in a manner that got progressively worse under the Morrison-Gardiner partnership. I’m not again going into stuff like the unbelievable manner in which the directors and CEO sat for years and watched debt accumulate as the club descended into administrative torpor, but that’s the root cause of this entire disaster. However now that Gardiner, Morrison and, less fundamentally, Ferguson have gone, new club management and governance from top to tail needs to be given every chance to try to rescue a situation that, we hope, is not beyond salvation.

A mercifully small rump of idiots in the stand booing a group of people who are doing their best to play their part in sorting this - simply because said “fans” haven’t received their necessary dose of self-gratification - isn’t part of this worthy effort.

Simple football facts. Ignore them if you wish.
No virtual about it, 18/5/24 ICTFC 2 Hamilton 3. Certain Billy McKay and L Longstaff were keys players that day I understand. Scott Kellacher was as I understand part of the coaching and trading since 2010, so directly has been influential in the quality, standard  and strength of the players over the period. (Happy to be corrected). 
Sorry you say this but the Earth is not Flat! You continue to punt your line and I will stick to publishing and face the facts. 

bc 

[CaleyTennis85]

This may sound rich coming from me so feel free to call me out as long as it's respectful but anyone questioning the management really need their heads examined because Kells has been our best manager in a very long time so really should be backed by us even after results like yesterday and I for one am going to give him the benefit of the doubt too . I think he knows as well as we do that yes we are probably in desperate need of reinforcements but, unless Alan Savage backs him then these signings will be few and far between so we have to accept that! Anyway, it's good to see youngsters such as Robbie Thompson and Ben Gardiner (to name only 2) get more opportunities than they got under the previous manager .

2025 is a new year so let's hope it's a successful one for us . Happy New Year to fellow fans for Wednesday morning, it's a privilege being part of this forum even when we disagree with each others opinions etc , I wouldn't want to be a member of any other forum and tbh that's compliments to the mods etc .

[+DoofersDad]

2 hours ago, big cherly said:

Simple football facts. Ignore them if you wish.
No virtual about it, 18/5/24 ICTFC 2 Hamilton 3. Certain Billy McKay and L Longstaff were keys players that day I understand. Scott Kellacher was as I understand part of the coaching and trading since 2010, so directly has been influential in the quality, standard  and strength of the players over the period. (Happy to be corrected). 
Sorry you say this but the Earth is not Flat! You continue to punt your line and I will stick to publishing and face the facts. 

bc 

This forum site is full of facts detailing the inept performance of senior management over the years which is undoubtedly the primary reason for the state the club is in.  You say you will stick to publishing and facing the facts, so where are these facts we shouldn't ignore?  Of course Scott Kellacher has had an influence over the years, but where is your evidence that his influence is partly responsible for our relegation last season?  How do you know whether or not we might actually have done worse had it not been for his influence.  Same goes for the players.  Where is your evidence that the performances of the few players remaining from last year's line ups are in any way responsible for the state of the club?  

If you want facts, here are some.  It is a fact that the quality of player we can attract and keep is dependent on the money available for the player budget.  And how much money is available is dependent on sound financial management.  It is a fact that financial management is not the remit of players and coaches.

It is a fact that senior management decide who the coaches will be.  It is a fact that within the last couple of years, our inept senior management gave a new contract to our head coach and then proceeded to sack him a few games later.  It is a fact that Dodds therefore received a lot of money to do nothing for the club.  Instead, they signed Ferguson for a significant sum of money which they hadn't actually got.  It is a fact that Ferguson was tactically inept opting for possession based football which was boring to watch and which failed to deliver results.

It is a fact that the majority of this season's first team squad made no appearances for the first team last year and therefore can take no responsibility for last season's relegation.

So please, let's see your facts on how the past actions of Scott, Billy and Luis have landed us in this sorry state of affairs.

[bdu98196]

4 hours ago, big cherly said:

Simple football facts. Ignore them if you wish.
No virtual about it, 18/5/24 ICTFC 2 Hamilton 3. Certain Billy McKay and L Longstaff were keys players that day I understand. Scott Kellacher was as I understand part of the coaching and trading since 2010, so directly has been influential in the quality, standard  and strength of the players over the period. (Happy to be corrected). 
Sorry you say this but the Earth is not Flat! You continue to punt your line and I will stick to publishing and face the facts. 

bc 

Cannot criticise Kells or Billy, must know that by now, just the same as for years nothing negative was to be said about Robbo or the board. Last year we know the big bad man came in and made it all go wrong, cant expect any of the professionals doing the job on the park to be held accountable too!!! Slowly the tide of opinions will turn, just takes longer in some quarters than others.

 

[KennySim93]

Have to say I'm quite surprised and disappointed by some of the negativity on here.  Were we poor yesterday? Absolutely.  However, since some people want facts let me give a couple.  In our first 10 games this season under Ferguson, we won just 2 games.  In the 8 games since Kell has taken over, we've won 4.  It's inarguable that we have improved under Kell and Billy, and all this with fewer players available, whether that be due to player releases or injuries.  I'm confident that we will win more games than we will lose, and with half the season left to play, I'm confident that we can avoid relegation.

Edited December 30, 2024 by KennySim93

[Scotty]

Bad day at the office ... we know it happens from time to time. Move on to the next game. 

[+Gringo]

We all have a bad day at work sometimes and footballers are no exception. Maybe they had too much turkey and whisky but, then again, maybe the Cove players did the same but drank single malt instead of a blended whisky...it makes a difference you know.

It's a set back for sure and bad result especially in front of a large(!?) festive crowd. I just hope those extra 300+ that turned up for the game are not put off and will return to help the lads turn this poor result around against Dumbarton. 

[ICTPaisley]

8 hours ago, KennySim93 said:

Have to say I'm quite surprised and disappointed by some of the negativity on here.  Were we poor yesterday? Absolutely.  However, since some people want facts let me give a couple.  In our first 10 games this season under Ferguson, we won just 2 games.  In the 8 games since Kell has taken over, we've won 4.  It's inarguable that we have improved under Kell and Billy, and all this with fewer players available, whether that be due to player releases or injuries.  I'm confident that we will win more games than we will lose, and with half the season left to play, I'm confident that we can avoid relegation.

Under Ferguson I’m sure he had won 4 of his first 8 as well. In fact he won the November manager of the month as well. 
 

I wonder where we sit in this league in terms of budget compared to the rest of the league. 

 

[bishbashbosh]

What makes a fact a fact?

A fact is a statement that can be verified. It can be proven to be true or false through objective evidence. An opinion is a statement that expresses a feeling, an attitude, a value judgment, or a belief. It is a statement that is neither true nor false.
 

are some getting facts and opinions mixed up??

[+DoofersDad]

10 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

Cannot criticise Kells or Billy, must know that by now, just the same as for years nothing negative was to be said about Robbo or the board. Last year we know the big bad man came in and made it all go wrong, cant expect any of the professionals doing the job on the park to be held accountable too!!! Slowly the tide of opinions will turn, just takes longer in some quarters than others.

 

I don't think anyone is saying you can't criticise the manager or the players.  What I am saying is don't criticise people for something that is not their fault.

The other very important aspect is that players are often criticised because people have completely unrealistic expectations of them.  Yes, we are a full time club, but the players we can afford are being paid peanuts in a very insecure employment situation.  They are players who are either at their level or who are just starting out in their careers and are learning the harsh reality of life in the Scottish League.  Many wouldn't be in the first team at all if others hadn't created the financial crisis at the club in the first place.  

From our lofty viewpoints in the stands, we can see when the penetrating through ball is on and get frustrated when it isn't played, or if it is, it goes straight to a defender or runs out of play.  It is easier to see those balls from the stands than out on the pitch.  If a player could spot these opportunities and play the pass with the required accuracy and weight with any degree of regularity, they wouldn't be playing for us and it is unreasonable to criticise players for not performing at an unrealistically high level.  

Many of our lads will earn less in their footballing careers than the likes of Marcus Rashford earn in a week!  Now Rashford and some of his Man Utd colleagues fully deserve all the criticism they get for the attitudes they display on the pitch.  But we should expect players at our level to make mistakes and fail to take opportunities.  Some people need to get real and be a bit more supportive of our young lads who, I believe, are doing their job to the best of their ability.  That is not to say that we should never be critical of the players.  Clearly we may have different ideas about what represents reasonable expectations and therefore about when criticism is valid or not, but if people feel criticism is due, then please try to offer constructive criticism.  

Prior to Saturday's game, the lads had done really well to win 4 of the previous 5 league games.  Then we lose to a team who produced an outstanding performance on the day whilst we had a bit of a bad day at the office.  On recent form, there should still be a pretty positive vibe about what is happening on the park.  The booing and abuse directed at the lads on Saturday was totally unjustified and will do nothing to boost the confidence of the lads.  

A vital game now against Dumbarton at the weekend.  If the boo boys can actually support the team this time, we might get an important morale boosting win.

[bdu98196]

2 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

 If the boo boys can actually support the team this time, we might get an important morale boosting win.

Do you think maybe one could play up front - cant be worse than what we have!!!

Billy & Scott should get criticism, nobody at the club should be immune from it.

23/24 - 36 games - 8 goals (6 games under Dodds - Zero goals)

24/25 - 18 games - 1 goal (8 games as AM with Kells - Zero goals)

Too many stating Billy never scored because Duncball, well clearly there has been opportunity to change that and what are we seeing? The return is awful and now its jointly sits as responsibility towards Billy & Scott. So either Kells is too scared to drop his AM or Billy too egotistical to see he's not performing - or both . If they wish to persist then the team tactics & formations need to develop to provide Billy a role which after the  performances (even in games we win) its clearly not happening.

And to anticipate the inevitable 'but there's more to his game' - the hold up play is poor, through balls are non-existant and I'm not sure where the on-field leadership & organisation is as our set pieces are too often honking and we look devoid of ideas.

So yes, criticism is fair.

[Satan]

Always amused at the sight of 'grown ups' booing their own players, but it is the panto season after all, there has to be a villain to vent at.

[bishbashbosh]

Time to close your eyes!

ps…… this is a good look if our goal was a goal. Doesn’t show when video played

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by bishbashbosh

[bishbashbosh]

Let’s not go out of 2024 on a downer, august 2022, same fixture. We can dream…….