Subs

[Mrs Pauliebee]

Why on earth do we keep making late in the day subs, that will have little or no impact on the game?

Happened again last night, no changes at half time (wouldn't Morgan or Rankin have given us more options?), then pile 3 on with less than 10 minutes left!

The only time lastminute.com subs have worked is when the sub is Brewster!  He knows how to turn defenders and plough through tired legs.

Please can we start giving our Subs a chance to create something, rather than this 5/10 minutes nonsense! :008: :008: :008:

Mrs PB

[Guest eliza]

Totally agree, Mrs Pauliebee.

It's now a joke within the supporters at the matches - who's warming up, what a waste of time - it's not 80 minutes or so yet.

The only time subs come on earlier is when there's any injury - what is this, Mr Brew?  Subs in the last few minutes don't have the time to make any impression on the game, unless (as it was said) it's yourself.

[Guest Calum-Red-an-Blue]

Seems to be the way brewster likes it though he did it in his last spell here too. slow watch??? i doubt it but i agree he has to sort it out earlier in the game because a player needs to get a feel for the game before he is confident to do anything usually.

[Scotty]

not sure why he does it so late but I think most supporters see subs in generally the same terms ....

00-60 mins is usually because of an injury, because someone is having a 'mare, or because things have gone pear-shaped.

60-70 mins is hoping for someone to perhaps change the game.

70-90 mins is more for timewasting as no-one can really get in, get settled and turn the game in that time.

Interesting to go back over the games he has been in charge for ..... 79 minutes seems to be a favourite (7 of 29 substitutions made in that minute) and only two 'tactical' substitutions made before the 70th minute in 10 games  :symbol_question:

4-1 L  V Aberdeen (CIS): 3 @ 79mins

0-4 W  V Gretna: 1 @ 60, 1 @ 72, 1 @ 79 [60th min sub due to injury]

1-2 L  V Aberdeen (SPL): 1 @ 67, 1 @ 81, 1 @85 [67th min sub due to injury]

2-2 D  V Kilmarnock: 1 @ 63, 1 @ 80, 1 @ 86

4-2 W  V Falkirk: 1 @ 75, 2 @ 87

3-0 W  V Gretna: 1 @ 57, 1 @ 72, 1 @ 79 [57th min sub due to injury]

2-1 W  V Hearts: 1 @ 85, 1 @ 86

5-0 L  V Celtic: 1 @ 77, 1 @ 85, 1 @ 86

1-0 L  V Hibernian: 1 @ 53, 1 @ 75, 1 @ 84

3-1 W  V Arbroath: 2 @ 79, 1 @ 85

[CaleyD]

Subs have to be looked at on a game by game basis and I think any manager who goes in to the game with a set time in mind is treading on dangerous ground.

Games like that against Gretna last week allow for substitutions on the basis of getting players off the park to rest them up for your next encounter and will rarely make any difference to the outcome and will not be made for that reason.  Games like that against Aberdeen where your having to chase a deficit call for early subs, not necessarily because any player is having a mare of a game, but because you need to be changing to a more attacking formation/set of tactics to try and claw things back.

Even at only 2 goals down with 10 minutes to go you're rarely going to over turn a two goal deficit with subs, and although he had them prepared to go on before the 4th goal went in the subs were a pointless exercise at that late stage in the game.  Had we only been one down and the team performing well then you could argue that you had nothing on the bench with which to improve the situation, but at two down you have to make changes to enhance your attacking position and give the changes a chance to work.

[Scotty]

I would agree with you that the art of the substitution is definitely done on a game by game basis but in general, if you make them early its because something isnt working or a player has been injured and if you make them late its to rest weary legs or waste a bit of time.

Its that bit in the middle of the second half from about 55 to 70 or even 75 that can change a close game and I dont think we do that effectively.

[Guest eliza]

Thank you Scotty - my thoughts exactly - but it does seem that our current Manager likes to leave subs until 80 mins or so, unless to cover injuries.

I wait expectantly, hopefully, to be contradicted in the next few games.

It must be soul destroying for our subs to warm up, umpteen times, knowing they are not likely to get a kick of the ball (especially the under 21s).  It was so obvious when Alan Morgan looked so surprised to be called to go on, (1st time in ages) in the Hearts home game!  He actually questioned the call!  Great that, when on,  he passed to Brew, who scored, and we won that game.

If only that could happen again and again (and again and again),

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Atrocious decisions yesterday - I would have hooked Proctor or Rosscoe at half time and put on Cowie. After the second goal went in the game cried out fer Barry Wilson or Rankin and Niculae should also have entered the fray. What was the feckin point of taking on Cowie and Morgan with two feckin minutes on the clock.

[wyness_is_god]

BREWSTER GET SOME KIND OF FECKING IDEA INTO MANAGING FFS  :33:  :crazy07:

3 Subs in the last 6 minutes, doing them minute by minute is something ya fecking do when ya 2-0 up and wasting time not 2-0 down  :008:

Try making subs around the 65th and 70th minute and at least have a go at making them effective.

You were like this last time you were here  :012:

[CaleyD]

In hindsight I could understand the logic behind starting Proctor instead of Cowie - holding Rangers for as long as possible and strengthen the defencive aspect of our game - however that went right out the window after 34 seconds and Brewster should have been ready to make the change from that moment on.

If we can't fix the problems at the back, then we need to adopt the Pele strategy of scoring more than the opposition.

[Mee]

Brewster really needs to get his head round this, it's one of his biggest weaknesses as a manager  :008:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

In hindsight I could understand the logic behind starting Proctor instead of Cowie - holding Rangers for as long as possible and strengthen the defencive aspect of our game - however that went right out the window after 34 seconds and Brewster should have been ready to make the change from that moment on.

If we can't fix the problems at the back, then we need to adopt the Pele strategy of scoring more than the opposition.

Walter Smith must have been laffing his feckin socks off when he saw our team sheet. We waste a player to look after Beasley and then Beasley plays on our last man and hugging the touchline. It would have made more sense trying to stop Ferguson from playing. Cowie would have stretched their defence and Wilson would have given us more width. McBain looked as if he was more in the middle and Hutton had a feckin field day.

To play the Pele way means we have to score.  :029:

[Queen Beastie]

Brewster should take a leaf out of Sam Allardyce's book.  On Saturday Newcastle were down 3-0 after 14 mintues. He hooked one of his defenders who was having a nightmare just after the 3rd.  He was the first one to admit the team selection was a mistake and rectified it, yes they still ended up getting pumped 4-1 but at least he has the balls to change things early on.

[Mrs Pauliebee]

Completely agree QB, we looked at the Newcastle score and had a giggle, at least they had the wotsits to do something about it!  You pull one back with a decent amount of time left it can change the game completely!

I really don't understand Brewsters strategy on this!

[Johnboy]

Let's not forget Brewster has an experienced and highly respected coach sitting behind him in the dugout.

Surely Donald should be part of the decision making process, when it is becoming clear that changes have to be made on the pitch..?

Or is it the case that this managerial pairing just isn't working out.?

[Mrs Pauliebee]

Or is it the case that this managerial pairing just isn't working out.?

Or, as has been suggested, allowed to pick their own team?

[Ronaldo]

In my opinion, a sub coming on when a team is chasing the game, must have at least 15mins anything else is totaly pointless.

If you did make a sub with 5 or 10 to go and they score it's called being jammy.

[Fanoffooty]

I think its time the Manager listened to the fans , he may not like the idea of being told what to do , but when we're down & screaming for Cowie ,Rankin ,Morgan  or whoever to come on , then whats he got to lose

Surely he s got to realise the loyal fans who go to games week in week out must have some idea of  what they're talking about & as its been proved , his decisions havent always been the right ones

[caley100]

Mmmm.. the day a manager has to listen to the fans for advise will be the day he should give up!

Brew has many coaching certificates, as has Parkie, we got beat by Rangers..so what.  as long as we can beat Motherwell, this to me is much more important as was our game vs Gretna.

[Fanoffooty]

Mmmm.. the day a manager has to listen to the fans for advise will be the day he should give up!

Brew has many coaching certificates, as has Parkie, we got beat by Rangers..so what.  as long as we can beat Motherwell, this to me is much more important as was our game vs Gretna.

He listened to fans , when we were all shouting for him to come on at Hearts game !

[Guest TinCanFan]

And just look what happened when he did come on.

[RiG]

And just look what happened when he did come on.

Indeed and kudos to him for that decision. However, how often have his late subs turned a game for us and for United when he was there?

[Fanoffooty]

However, how often have his late subs turned a game for us and for United when he was there?

[/quote

Cant have been that often otherwise this topic would never have been started & half of us wouldnt be gerning about it !

[RiG]

Which would be the point I am getting at  :004:

[Fanoffooty]

Mmmm.. the day a manager has to listen to the fans for advise will be the day he should give up!

Well when there's been between 4 & 6,000 fans shouting to get a certain player on , we canna all be wrong !