Contracts (Merged)

[Caley Stan]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

[stevico1]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

[PullMyFinger]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

Out of order. Charles does not represent the BBC on here

He was simply quoting what was said during an interview with Grassa. Take a look around you, Black will probably be away at the end of the season or sooner. Charles and Grassa will still be here. I know which version I believe.

[stevico1]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

Out of order. Charles does not represent the BBC on here

He was simply quoting what was said during an interview with Grassa. Take a look around you, Black will probably be away at the end of the season or sooner. Charles and Grassa will still be here. I know which version I believe.

Rubbish he was quoting a BBC article on here

[PullMyFinger]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

Out of order. Charles does not represent the BBC on here

He was simply quoting what was said during an interview with Grassa. Take a look around you, Black will probably be away at the end of the season or sooner. Charles and Grassa will still be here. I know which version I believe.

Rubbish he was quoting a BBC article on here

Get to the point caller.

[stevico1]

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

Fair play to Charles for coming on here and stating Grassa's position clearly. This is after all a thread that has been operating on the basis of pure speculation for some time. All facts, impartial or otherwise, should surely be welcomed.

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

Out of order. Charles does not represent the BBC on here

He was simply quoting what was said during an interview with Grassa. Take a look around you, Black will probably be away at the end of the season or sooner. Charles and Grassa will still be here. I know which version I believe.

Rubbish he was quoting a BBC article on here

Get to the point caller.

What is your point caller did Mr CB quoted a BBC interview on here or not

[PullMyFinger]

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

1) Charles Bannerman is not the BBC although he does work for them part time. He is as entitled to voice his own opinion here as we are although in this case he hasn't.

2) This forum is not operated by or controlled by the BBC. As for impartial have you heard of Billy Dodds?

3) What Charles quoted was comments made during an interview with Graeme Bennett and not "Grassa's opinion clearly".

[Scotty]

Mr B does not represent the BBC when he comes on here, just like he doesnt represent the educational authorities !!

We all quote BBC articles on here from time to time as its one of the best resources available. The only difference is that Charles can often quote articles he himself has written. At the end of the day, this is about the new contracts and we are being dragged off on a tangent.

Reading the thread, and the same articles as everyone else, it would seem that the club may have taken the normal route they have been following for years ..... make a lowball offer at the start of the season, see if anyone takes it, or will come close to agreeing to it with a slight enhancement, and if they don't, then put on the poker face, wait a while and hope to discuss it later when the player is worried they might not get a better offer ......

Its worked for us in the past, its backfired on us in the past and I fear it will backfire on us again on this occasion as both Cowie and Black would be considered first teamers at most SPL clubs outside the OF. There will be no shortage of offers and we will quite simply not be able to compete with them.

[stevico1]

Why should Charles come on here stating Grassa's opinion clearly why not come on here stating Blackies opinion clearly after all the BBC are impartial

1) Charles Bannerman is not the BBC although he does work for them part time. He is as entitled to voice his own opinion here as we are although in this case he hasn't.

2) This forum is not operated by or controlled by the BBC. As for impartial have you heard of Billy Dodds?

3) What Charles quoted was comments made during an interview with Graeme Bennett and not "Grassa's opinion clearly".

Perhaps if you would care to look at bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland or follow the link to it from the appropriate section of this site, you might get an insight into what has been happening.

This is a summary of what Graeme Bennett told the BBC -

* At the beginning of the season ICT made extension offers to Grant Munro, Ian Black, Don Cowie and Michael Fraser.

*Don Cowie, on the advice of his agent, said he wanted to wait until the window.

*Ian Black and Michael Fraser, through their agents, turned their offers down.

* Grant Munro, who doesn't have an agent, agreed a 3 year extension back in October.

So this wasnt from the bbc ok sorry

[stevico1]

Mr B does not represent the BBC when he comes on here, just like he doesnt represent the educational authorities !!

We all quote BBC articles on here from time to time as its one of the best resources available. The only difference is that Charles can often quote articles he himself has written. At the end of the day, this is about the new contracts and we are being dragged off on a tangent.

Reading the thread, and the same articles as everyone else, it would seem that the club may have taken the normal route they have been following for years ..... make a lowball offer at the start of the season, see if anyone takes it, or will come close to agreeing to it with a slight enhancement, and if they don't, then put on the poker face, wait a while and hope to discuss it later when the player is worried they might not get a better offer ......

Its worked for us in the past, its backfired on us in the past and I fear it will backfire on us again on this occasion as both Cowie and Black would be considered first teamers at most SPL clubs outside the OF. There will be no shortage of offers and we will quite simply not be able to compete with them.

Scotty I am not even sure you believe that

[PullMyFinger]

I believe Scotty is spot on in his analysis of the situation. No one has a better poker face than Grassa.

[Scotty]

Scotty I am not even sure you believe that

Which part - The Mr B. part, or the tried and traditional way we seem to handle contracts ? The Mr B. part is true ... he does NOT represent the BBC on here, in exactly the same way as you always maintained that you did not represent Marius ! Like you, he may seek to set the record straight based on conversations or knowledge of something we dont know or have overlooked, but at the end of the day he doesnt represent them.

As for the contracts, lets look at my theory ......

Step 1: The club make a lowball offer at the start of the season, see if anyone takes it, or will come close to agreeing to it with a slight enhancement.

Result: Grant signs, Cowie Fraser and Black do not. Most of us don't know the contents of the offers, so we can't really say whether they are lowball or not, but only Granty who is a career player at ICT and unlikely to move sees fit to sign his. The others either dont like it for some reason and reject it (Black, Fraser) or on the advice of their agent, decide to wait and see what options they have come the transfer window (Cowie).

Step 2: Put on the poker face and wait a while and hope to discuss it later.

Result: A lot of posturing, but no actual evidence of further discussions.

Where my theory might be wrong is that its not only the club putting on the poker face but also the players, or at least Cowie. He has always maintained he would wait until the window so there is not much the club can do and I would say we have got to accept he will be offski and it will not be Grassa's fault. Black said he had not had an offer but perhaps what he meant was he had not had an an offer worth considering. I think Black is an important player and we should do what we can to try and keep him. He seems settled in the area and from what I have heard wants to stay despite his run-ins with Brew. If he has been made a lowball offer then the club should put a realistic one in front of him that he would consider. I fear however that this will not happen and we will lose him too. Of the three, Ike seems to be in the least strong position. He is not firmly established as #1 and Esson has done well since coming in, McNulty is also a competent young keeper who could potentially be #2 to Esson if Fraser decides to move on. Ike didnt seem too far away from signing at the start of the season so maybe a slight nudge in the contract will persuade him.

Of the three, I would say Blackie would be the biggest loss as he is one I fell we could keep if the offer made to him is right. I suspect that Cowie has already decided to go and much as I feel for Fraser having sat on the bench for 150+ games when Brown was at the club, he has not made the #1 slot his own yet and will have to keep fighting Esson for it.

[PullMyFinger]

I believe Scotty is spot on in his analysis of the situation. No one has a better poker face than Grassa.

My man i have no control what happens in the heathmount

:thumb04:

[CaleyD]

2. You are correct, Charles Bannerman has as good as called Ian Black a liar

That statement is in effect defamatory. All I have done is to have quoted ICT's Director of Football and his account of the manner in which events unfolded.

No, you clearly stated in your opening line that your report was an insight into what has been happening. In other words, your were citing the information as fact and not simply an account of any discussion you might have had with the DoF.

Perhaps if you would care to look at bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland or follow the link to it from the appropriate section of this site, you might get an insight into what has been happening.

The information contained therein is in direct conflict with what Ian Black said in the press...so you are in effect calling him a liar. If anyone is in danger of having made a defamatory comment, then I'm afraid it is you.

[PullMyFinger]

This is reminiscent of my schooldays in the playground. Back gates at 4 o'clock ya raj.

[stevico1]

:018:

2. You are correct, Charles Bannerman has as good as called Ian Black a liar

That statement is in effect defamatory. All I have done is to have quoted ICT's Director of Football and his account of the manner in which events unfolded.

No, you clearly stated in your opening line that your report was an insight into what has been happening. In other words, your were citing the information as fact and not simply an account of any discussion you might have had with the DoF.

Perhaps if you would care to look at bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland or follow the link to it from the appropriate section of this site, you might get an insight into what has been happening.

The information contained therein is in direct conflict with what Ian Black said in the press...so you are in effect calling him a liar. If anyone is in danger of having made a defamatory comment, then I'm afraid it is you.

;) :thumb04:

[tm4tj]

Get a fekkin grip you lot!

[PullMyFinger]

Get a fekkin grip you lot!

:thumb04: :018: ;)

Is it safe to assume that everything reported in the press is a true reflection of comments made by either parties during an interview (if an interview even took place)? Unless you are the subject or the interviewer or a witness to said interview then I would suggest a bit of decorum.

Here comes Scotty to sort you all out. :015:

[stevico1]

Get a fekkin grip you lot!

:thumb04: :018: ;)

Is it safe to assume that everything reported in the press is a true reflection of comments made by either parties during an interview (if an interview even took place)? Unless you are the subject or the interviewer or a witness to said interview then I would suggest a bit of decorum.

ok I have been in that that position and I would question the clubs honesty in such positions

[PullMyFinger]

ok I have been in that that position and I would question the clubs honesty in such positions

Has the club been dishonest? I'd think carefully before jumping to conclusions. During any contract negotiation it is wise to keep the negotiation out of the press. It would be nice to know what's going on but us knowing will have no bearing on the outcome.

[stevico1]

ok I have been in that that position and I would question the clubs honesty in such positions

Has the club been dishonest? I'd think carefully before jumping to conclusions. During any contract negotiation it is wise to keep the negotiation out of the press. It would be nice to know what's going on but us knowing will have no bearing on the outcome.

who said they were ,I said I would question it nothing more, enjoy sleeping on the brightside

I really dont have to answer this I, hope the black and cowie have a long future at the club and I hope I dont have to explain there departure.

ok I have been in that that position and I would question the clubs honesty in such positions

Has the club been dishonest? I'd think carefully before jumping to conclusions. During any contract negotiation it is wise to keep the negotiation out of the press. It would be nice to know what's going on but us knowing will have no bearing on the outcome.

Has the club been honest? I'd think carefully before jumping to conclusions

[Caley Stan]

I'll say this again.

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

No lies. No defamation. No histrionics. Just a simple explanation for what was, prior to Grassa's interview this week, a confusing scenario.

I have to wonder, given the virulence with which Caley D and stevico are pursuing this matter; do you know for a fact that Ian Black was not offered a contract at the start of the season?

[PullMyFinger]

ok I have been in that that position and I would question the clubs honesty in such positions

Has the club been dishonest? I'd think carefully before jumping to conclusions. During any contract negotiation it is wise to keep the negotiation out of the press. It would be nice to know what's going on but us knowing will have no bearing on the outcome.

who said they were ,I said I would question it nothing more, enjoy sleeping on the brightside

I would question your ability to make a rational point, but I am not saying you're being irrational.

This is getting boring.

Back on topic, what was it again?

What's happened to the new contracts?

Grant - Done deal

Ike - offer still on table, I don't think he'll get an improved offer or that he's worth one.

Cowie - Waiting until the transfer window to see his options.

Black - Still playing poker with the club, but probably will leave IMHO.

[PullMyFinger]

No, as an ICT fan I want Tullochs to construct a new weatherproof stadium with sliding roof and to raid Serie A, Bundesliga, Premiership and La Liga for the best players but it's not going to happen. It is what it is.

[CaleyD]

I'll say this again.

Perhaps the recent quotes from Ian Black refer to the fact that the club have not returned to him with an improved offer, rather than not having offered him one at all.

No lies. No defamation. No histrionics. Just a simple explanation for what was, prior to Grassa's interview this week, a confusing scenario.

I have to wonder, given the virulence with which Caley D and stevico are pursuing this matter; do you know for a fact that Ian Black was not offered a contract at the start of the season?

Maybe Black was offered a contract, maybe he wasn't.....I don't know. All I do know is that we have the player saying in the press that the club haven't talked to him which is conveniently followed by a press articles and interviews from the club which seem to be trying to make a big deal of the fact that they have talked to him.

I also know that there's been very little information/news which has come from the club this year that has turned out to be what they originally tried to spin it to be....and it's that fact which leaves me questioning whether or not they are telling the full story or only a part story and spinning it in their favour.

I pursued the point with Charles because he was portraying his version of events (which come from the club) as being an insight in what has been happening whilst ignoring the fact that there's information out there which is contradictory.

When push comes to shove, I don't give a stuff who's telling the truth, what I want to see is those charged with the stewardship of ICT acting in a professional manner and doing everything possible to keep key players or to ensure that we get the best deal possible if/when the leave. Right now I, personally, see little or no evidence that they are doing this effectively.

As I said before, the clubs reactionary approach to communication and providing information/news does them absolutely no favours....again, IMO.