Where is the money?

[Renegade]

I don't think anyone could, or should be offered anything until we know what division we will be in next season.

As for TB and MM would you really want them to stay on if we don't win promotion?

Would they want to stay on if we don't win promotion?

I wouldn't want Butcher staying if he was still on (allegedly) ?100,000 a year.

Having now thought about the players that left in the summer, im beginning to wonder as to whether Garry Wood, Iain Vigurs etc actually had relegation release clauses in their contracts. Obviously if the club went down they couldnt support an Under 19's team and maybe these guys fell into that catergory in that situation. Surely if we stayed up then they would still be here no?

Not necessarily, Butcher didn't seem to rate either of them.

[Caley Stan]

I don't think anyone could, or should be offered anything until we know what division we will be in next season.

Surely it's possible to offer contracts that provide different terms according to which divison we're playing in. With a bit of forethought, players who the club want to retain could have been told before the January window exactly what terms they would be offered. I found it very distrurbing to hear Rosscoe saying to the papers last month that none of the players had heard anything about contracts. As much as anything, it's disrespectul to leave employees in limbo.

As for TB and MM would you really want them to stay on if we don't win promotion?

Without a doubt. They have signed about half of our current squad and that squad has continued to improve as the season has progressed. If we end up spending 5-10 years in this division, should we change the manager at the end of each season if they fail to win promotion? Building a team takes time, especially without much cash to splash. Pele needed 3 seasons in mid-table before his team could start to push for promotion.

[Johnboy]

I don't think anyone could, or should be offered anything until we know what division we will be in next season.

Surely it's possible to offer contracts that provide different terms according to which divison we're playing in. With a bit of forethought, players who the club want to retain could have been told before the January window exactly what terms they would be offered. I found it very distrurbing to hear Rosscoe saying to the papers last month that none of the players had heard anything about contracts. As much as anything, it's disrespectul to leave employees in limbo.

As for TB and MM would you really want them to stay on if we don't win promotion?

Without a doubt. They have signed about half of our current squad and that squad has continued to improve as the season has progressed. If we end up spending 5-10 years in this division, should we change the manager at the end of each season if they fail to win promotion? Building a team takes time, especially without much cash to splash. Pele needed 3 seasons in mid-table before his team could start to push for promotion.

Sorry.... I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure. The players (and management) know full well that their careers, future prospects, remuneration, etc, are hardly going to be enhanced by another season, or more in Div1. That should surely be more than enough incentive for all to battle tooth and nail for every available point remaining in this league.

It's just a wee bit premature to be thinking about new contracts of any kind just because the team has enjoyed a run of 7 league games without a defeat.

Hope that doesn't sound negative - I still believe it can be done barring injury problems, suspensions etc, and if it happens I'll be the first to admit I was wrong to doubt the capabilities of TB & MM.

[Caley Stan]

Sorry.... I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure.

So how long do we run with that policy? As we all know, the last relegated team to win the First Divison was Hibs in 1999. By demanding that Butcher delivers where Jimmy Calderwood, Billy Stark, Jim Duffy, John Robertson and Stephen Kenny all failed seems to be setting a ridiculously high target.

[caleykid1994]

Sorry.... I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure.

So how long do we run with that policy? As we all know, the last relegated team to win the First Divison was Hibs in 1999. By demanding that Butcher delivers where Jimmy Calderwood, Billy Stark, Jim Duffy, John Robertson and Stephen Kenny all failed seems to be setting a ridiculously high target.

I thought it was St.Mirren???

[Caley Stan]

Hope that doesn't sound negative - I still believe it can be done barring injury problems, suspensions etc, and if it happens I'll be the first to admit I was wrong to doubt the capabilities of TB & MM.

No, not negative, just unrealistic. I happen to think that it is highly unlikely that we will be promoted. I just feel that sacking (or not offering a new contract to) the management team should not be dependent on winning an ultra-competitive league, which until recently contained six contenders, three of which, it could be argued, are bigger clubs than ICT.

[Johnboy]

No, not negative, just unrealistic. I happen to think that it is highly unlikely that we will be promoted. I just feel that sacking (or not offering a new contract to) the management team should not be dependent on winning an ultra-competitive league, which until recently contained six contenders, three of which, it could be argued, are bigger clubs than ICT.

Now you're being negative, and unrealistic!

The performance I saw from the team that dumped quite a decent Motherwell side out the Scottish Cup, did enough to convince me that promotion was more than a distinct possibility....

Unfortunately, since then TB has messed around with that line-up by bringing Djebi-Zadi in, when it seems obvious to many that he clearly has an unsettling effect on the back four, thanks to his unpredictability.

I've seen every team in Div1 now, even those arguably bigger than ICT haven't struck me as being any more likely to win promotion to the SPL as we are - when we're playing at our best.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I have just had this strictly confidential report from the Highland Health and Safety Department leaked to me:

Aquifer level falls 60 feet in Inverness City, triggers sinkholes

By Neil Johnson Inverness Health and Safety Committee

Publication: Strictly Private and ConfidentialLexisNexis

Date: Friday, February 19 2010

Feb 19-- LONGMAN ESTATE,INVERNESS -- A rash of sinkholes opened in the Longman Estate where groundwater levels plummeted as the local football club fought to utilise its Undersoil heating system.

Two sinkholes discovered early this morning near the Tulloch StadiumLake Wales closed part of the INV 27 pipe system. Officials do not know how long the system will be shut down.

Groundwater levels around the Stadium where sinkholes damaged the USH system and two stands on Friday dropped dramatically after Tommy Cummings turned on the emergency aquifer release pumps nearly every night since Feb 13 to protect the stadium and the pitch.

The aquifer level in some places fell 60 feet since the string of freezing nights started, said Robyn Felix, spokeswoman for the Highland and Islands Water Management Department.

The return of the Aquifer :024: :(

[Johnboy]

As we all know, the last relegated team to win the First Divison was Hibs in 1999. By demanding that Butcher delivers where Jimmy Calderwood, Billy Stark, Jim Duffy, John Robertson and Stephen Kenny all failed seems to be setting a ridiculously high target.

Where did Jimmy Calderwood fail?

[Caley Stan]

As we all know, the last relegated team to win the First Divison was Hibs in 1999. By demanding that Butcher delivers where Jimmy Calderwood, Billy Stark, Jim Duffy, John Robertson and Stephen Kenny all failed seems to be setting a ridiculously high target.

Where did Jimmy Calderwood fail?

He failed to win the league in his first season at Dunfermline - they got promoted in 2nd place due to SPL expansion.

It was a bit cheeky to add his name to the list, especially as your original quote was:

I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure.

I still disagree strongly with that statement. Do you really believe that Butcher should be sacked if we finish in 2nd place?

Anyway, more to the point, where's the money? And what the **** is an aquifer?

[Renegade]

You've got to remember here that ICT are/could be/would be the ones who set themselves up for a possible fall. They were the ones marketing themselves as the team who would go "straight back up" and if ICT fail to do that, then they have failed and should they fail, they have only themselves to blame.

[Johnboy]

I still disagree strongly with that statement. Do you really believe that Butcher should be sacked if we finish in 2nd place?

This game of football can be so cruel at times...

Seriously, I doubt if his contract would be renewed in the event of a 2nd place finish. I'm also inclined to doubt if TB would accept the wages on offer for a 1st Div side.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Johnboy

[Renegade]

How many other 1st Division managers are on ?100,000 a year? And Maurice must be on a fair wage too.

[Oddquine]

Sorry.... I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure. The players (and management) know full well that their careers, future prospects, remuneration, etc, are hardly going to be enhanced by another season, or more in Div1. That should surely be more than enough incentive for all to battle tooth and nail for every available point remaining in this league.

It's just a wee bit premature to be thinking about new contracts of any kind just because the team has enjoyed a run of 7 league games without a defeat.

Hope that doesn't sound negative - I still believe it can be done barring injury problems, suspensions etc, and if it happens I'll be the first to admit I was wrong to doubt the capabilities of TB & MM.

And the world you inhabit is where outside the planet earth?

Yep.everyone knows their careers, future prospects, remuneration, etc, are hardly going to be enhanced by another season, or more in Div1..but you do kinda have to think that every other team in Div1 is not endeavoring to get up there....and you kinda have to think that those teams are prepared to forego their aspirations to allow ICT yours.

You can battle tooth and nail for every available point remaining in this league...but other teams are going to do the same. ICT has no divine right to immediate resurrection...whatever some fans might think.

Strikes me that it is much more sensible to offer new contracts to the nucleus of a team for next season, whichever league it is in which they might play......otherwise next season, we will have three players and no management.

That seem a sensible way to go?

[DAM]

I have just had this strictly confidential report from the Highland Health and Safety Department leaked to me:

Aquifer level falls 60 feet in Inverness City, triggers sinkholes

By Neil Johnson Inverness Health and Safety Committee

Publication: Strictly Private and ConfidentialLexisNexis

Date: Friday, February 19 2010

Feb 19-- LONGMAN ESTATE,INVERNESS -- A rash of sinkholes opened in the Longman Estate where groundwater levels plummeted as the local football club fought to utilise its Undersoil heating system.

Two sinkholes discovered early this morning near the Tulloch StadiumLake Wales closed part of the INV 27 pipe system. Officials do not know how long the system will be shut down.

Groundwater levels around the Stadium where sinkholes damaged the USH system and two stands on Friday dropped dramatically after Tommy Cummings turned on the emergency aquifer release pumps nearly every night since Feb 13 to protect the stadium and the pitch.

The aquifer level in some places fell 60 feet since the string of freezing nights started, said Robyn Felix, spokeswoman for the Highland and Islands Water Management Department.

The return of the Aquifer :P :D

Not the fecking boring aquifer again FFS.

[Huisdean]

You've got to remember here that ICT are/could be/would be the ones who set themselves up for a possible fall. They were the ones marketing themselves as the team who would go "straight back up" and if ICT fail to do that, then they have failed and should they fail, they have only themselves to blame.

And if they hadn't said this, people would have been queing up on this forum to slate the club for no ambition. I seriously wonder why some posters on this forum support ICT.

[Huisdean]

Sorry.... I think anything less than promotion back to the SPL would have to be deemed a failure. The players (and management) know full well that their careers, future prospects, remuneration, etc, are hardly going to be enhanced by another season, or more in Div1. That should surely be more than enough incentive for all to battle tooth and nail for every available point remaining in this league.

It's just a wee bit premature to be thinking about new contracts of any kind just because the team has enjoyed a run of 7 league games without a defeat.

Hope that doesn't sound negative - I still believe it can be done barring injury problems, suspensions etc, and if it happens I'll be the first to admit I was wrong to doubt the capabilities of TB & MM.

And the world you inhabit is where outside the planet earth?

Yep.everyone knows their careers, future prospects, remuneration, etc, are hardly going to be enhanced by another season, or more in Div1..but you do kinda have to think that every other team in Div1 is not endeavoring to get up there....and you kinda have to think that those teams are prepared to forego their aspirations to allow ICT yours.

You can battle tooth and nail for every available point remaining in this league...but other teams are going to do the same. ICT has no divine right to immediate resurrection...whatever some fans might think.

Strikes me that it is much more sensible to offer new contracts to the nucleus of a team for next season, whichever league it is in which they might play......otherwise next season, we will have three players and no management.

That seem a sensible way to go?

To me it does, to the baord, whoi we need to convince, who knows?.

[Johnboy]

And if they hadn't said this, people would have been queing up on this forum to slate the club for no ambition. I seriously wonder why some posters on this forum support ICT.

So whatever statements are made, or whatever decisions are taken by those charged with the running and administration of this club, they should not, under any circumstances, be questioned by mere bona fide supporters?

Edited February 26, 2010 by Johnboy

[Renegade]

You've got to remember here that ICT are/could be/would be the ones who set themselves up for a possible fall. They were the ones marketing themselves as the team who would go "straight back up" and if ICT fail to do that, then they have failed and should they fail, they have only themselves to blame.

And if they hadn't said this, people would have been queing up on this forum to slate the club for no ambition. I seriously wonder why some posters on this forum support ICT.

If they fail to do as they themselves said they would, and seemed so confident of doing they have failed on their own terms. And thanks for the last bit, I'm sorry we all can't have the same happy clapper opinion as you.

[givmeaccccc]

The thread certainly highlights the fact that we the fans have lots of questions. I think it was CaleyD who correctly said that we haven't had decent information for years.

As for contracts I take it that we had a 'kick back' when Cowie got his first Scotland cap? I also take it that we receive cash when a player goes on to bigger and better things after leaving us. For example if messrs Imrie and Black etc go to the Old Firm or gain caps do we get additional cash? I'll answer this myself, YES of course we will because this will have been written into the transfer deals, won't it?

[CaleyD]

The issue for me is not the claims they made, but they fact they have done little, if anything, to back up it up in terms of actions since the end of last season.

They talked of having plans in place if we were relegated, they shut themselves away over the summer telling us they were working on a plan for this season....and we've still never seen or heard anything of these plans all season.

They asked the fans to get behind them and the team and they did just that with Season Ticket sales being the largest we've ever had....so I don't think it's unjust that the fans feel a little aggrieved at the lack of action on the part of our Board.

I sometimes think that Inverness doesn't deserve a SPL team because, as a city, we have never done enough to get behind the club....but if we're honest, it's not surprising when you look at how things have been/are being run. Who in their right mind would want to pay to have their name associated with ICT right now? Why would people be going out of their way to help when they get no thanks for it and find themselves cast aside on a whim because they dare to speak their mind?

Just as we have no right to be playing at the top level, we have no right to expect the support of the City, it's businesses and it's people when the clubs expectation is that it should be a one way street and are doing little to give anything back.

Huisdean, when you look at the way things are done at ICT, the way some people have been treated, the inaction by the club on the important things and the totally wrong actions with other things....I too wonder why some people bother supporting them. Fortunately they do though, and I think you have to realise that just because someone is a fan of the team that doesn't mean they have to be supportive of the way the club is being operated....a boat that I very much find myself occupying.

[stevico1]

The issue for me is not the claims they made, but they fact they have done little, if anything, to back up it up in terms of actions since the end of last season.

They talked of having plans in place if we were relegated, they shut themselves away over the summer telling us they were working on a plan for this season....and we've still never seen or heard anything of these plans all season.

They asked the fans to get behind them and the team and they did just that with Season Ticket sales being the largest we've ever had....so I don't think it's unjust that the fans feel a little aggrieved at the lack of action on the part of our Board.

I sometimes think that Inverness doesn't deserve a SPL team because, as a city, we have never done enough to get behind the club....but if we're honest, it's not surprising when you look at how things have been/are being run. Who in their right mind would want to pay to have their name associated with ICT right now? Why would people be going out of their way to help when they get no thanks for it and find themselves cast aside on a whim because they dare to speak their mind?

Just as we have no right to be playing at the top level, we have no right to expect the support of the City, it's businesses and it's people when the clubs expectation is that it should be a one way street and are doing little to give anything back.

Huisdean, when you look at the way things are done at ICT, the way some people have been treated, the inaction by the club on the important things and the totally wrong actions with other things....I too wonder why some people bother supporting them. Fortunately they do though, and I think you have to realise that just because someone is a fan of the team that doesn't mean they have to be supportive of the way the club is being operated....a boat that I very much find myself occupying.

Good post...I also wonder how many local businesses don't get involved in supporting the club due to the way it is currently being run and the way certain major shareholders use bullyboy tactics not only in the club but in Inverness as a whole.

[givmeaccccc]

In the early days we had a fair number of ex Caley and Jags business people who supported the club both financially and physicallyy under the leadership (comradeship) of Dougie MacGillvary. Even very small business people, of which I was one, put in a few hundred quid per annum due in the main to the hard work example set by Dougie and the likes of other local personalities such as Charlie Christie, who would never pass anyone in the street without a smile and a hello, even if you didn't know them personally.

We had open discussions in the form of the Members Club and the initial shareholding meetings. These were chaired and led by well known Invernessians who we all felt were just one of us, ie fans of football in Inverness. As the club grew in stature we lost the local team feel and the local boys from the Board. They were all replaced by 'deep pocket' big business people who seemed a little distant from the fans. With these new Board members came less and less opportunity to find out what happens at Board level. I remember clearly a few years ago phoning up to tell the club that I could afford about ?200 - ?300 from my business for the forthcoming season if they had a corner flag or something for me to sponsor. 'We will get back to you' was the response. Of course I never heard anything and kept the cash. Had my offer gone over the bridge they would have bitten my hand off!

I am not aware of the local small business people being 'groomed', is that the correct word! I could be wrong though.

If you don't win over the local business people you will fail to grow the fanbase and the income.

[PullMyFinger]

I'd like to point out that David Sutherland is in fact a born and bred Invernessian and is the best known businessman locally. He has ploughed a significant amount of cash into the club and at the moment if he reads these pages he'll be wondering why he bothered.

[Scotty]

For example if messrs Imrie and Black etc go to the Old Firm or gain caps do we get additional cash? I'll answer this myself, YES of course we will because this will have been written into the transfer deals, won't it?

Black left on a Bosman so there was no transfer deal !

I remember clearly a few years ago phoning up to tell the club that I could afford about ?200 - ?300 from my business for the forthcoming season if they had a corner flag or something for me to sponsor. 'We will get back to you' was the response. Of course I never heard anything and kept the cash. Had my offer gone over the bridge they would have bitten my hand off!

I think Guzz and Uncle Albert could tell you a similar style of story when they offered to donate the electronic subs board when we were last in D1.

I have said it for years, (and years, and years, and years) ... the club's biggest two failings have been their failure to communicate effectively with the fanbase (something I experienced first hand when running this site as the official site - getting info was like pulling teeth in a pair of boxing gloves), and the loss of our 'friendly' identity where barriers have gone up and suspicion about the ulterior motives of those offering to help replaced the original attitude which was to embrace offers like that.