Celtic in the cup or in the league?

[ICTPaisley]

So given that if we beat Celtic in the cup we have a great chance of getting to Hampden would you rather a win in the cup or points in the league to keep up the good form for top 6.

Realistically we aren't going to win both but playing them twice in a week is giving us a great chance to take something.

[Sorted]

Has to be the Cup as it is our sole chance of a trophy. Not winning the league and don't have any interest in who does.

'Top Six' - a created nonentity formed to bring (allegedly) stimulation for supporters for the entire season (according to pishapedia), doesn't come with a trophy.

I want my cup final, my day out at Hampden.

Straightforward, if a choice has to be made.

[Ten4]

If we are safe in the league I would love a day at Hampden of course

but would finishing top six not be better financially in the long run than say a final appearance?

[ICTPaisley]

Id take a semi final at Hampden over top 6 this season, its been far too long since our last visit.

[mainstander]

Difficult one to call since its all down to money. If there was going to be any danger of relagation which Im becoming more sure wont happen then would definately want to beat them in the league. Other than that its a case of what would bring in more cash, the extra league placings from three more points or the procedes from one or more extra rounds of the cup.

[Joe DiMaggio]

Winning the cup would surely gain more money than 1 extra home game against the OF and realistically 5th or 6th placed prize money over 7th.

I would rather finish 11th and win the cup over finishing 5th or 6th anyday!!

Scrap that I would rather win the cup than finish 2nd or 3rd. Winning the cup puts you in Europe a further round than 3rd and the same as 2nd. And no one remembers who finished 2nd or 3rd in a random season years ago. Winning the cup has defined a lot of team's histories and is their greatest achievement. Killie in 97 Hearts in 98 St. Mirren 87 Motherwell 91 etc. I can list these off the top of my head but couldn't tell you who finished 2nd or 3rd in these years.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Joe DiMaggio

[starchief]

Not too bothered about the money. If we're £100,000 down then we cut our cloth according to that. Just as long as we've got players that can give their best is all I ask.

Definitely the cup. We can basically assume we and our rivals will lose to the OF. Beating the teams around us in the league and putting in a good performance against the OF should be our league task.

But the cup is romance. Imagine winning it? The greatest day ICT could ever have. So, we're up for the cup!

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

We take one game at a time.

[ICTPaisley]

We take one game at a time.

Obviously we take one game at a time but which one would you prefere to win? I guess the cup seeing as its the first.

[Charles Bannerman]

Not too bothered about the money. If we're £100,000 down then we cut our cloth according to that.

Even if that were to mean having insufficient funds to maintain SPL football?

Would you be more bothered about the money if you were one of the people responsible for trying to balance the books or having to sustain credibility on the pitch within the constraints of a reduced budget?

Edited January 19, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[Scotty]

Simple answer to this question .......

BOTH !!!!!

[starchief]

Not too bothered about the money. If we're £100,000 down then we cut our cloth according to that.

Even if that were to mean having insufficient funds to maintain SPL football?

Yes. If that was what mattered I'd be supporting Celtic and Manchester City. Did you support ICT any less in SFL1 (or lower)? Are Dundee or Ayr fans any less passionate about their club? Create history on the funds available.

I'd take a cup win against 10 seasons in the SFL1. What is St Mirren's greatest achievement? Finishing third? I grew up around Paisley and can't remember the year. Maintaining top league football? I don't know the years that started and ended or how long that run was for. Winning the cup? Without looking, 1987. Ian Ferguson latching on a through ball (from Abercromby IIRC) to beat Dundee Utd 1-0. I could even give you the team for that day. 'Nuff said.

[+DoofersDad]

It has to be the cup. It's like asking whether you would rather Scotland win the worrld cup or get into the top six of the FIFA rankings - OK so I know it's not quite the same but I'm sure you get the point.

Apart from the fact that a cup win is what is remembered, a cup win does help to generate income and attracts people to the club as a result of the media attention.

[Ten4]

Not too bothered about the money. If we're £100,000 down then we cut our cloth according to that.

Even if that were to mean having insufficient funds to maintain SPL football?

Yes. If that was what mattered I'd be supporting Celtic and Manchester City. Did you support ICT any less in SFL1 (or lower)? Are Dundee or Ayr fans any less passionate about their club? Create history on the funds available.

I'd take a cup win against 10 seasons in the SFL1. What is St Mirren's greatest achievement? Finishing third? I grew up around Paisley and can't remember the year. Maintaining top league football? I don't know the years that started and ended or how long that run was for. Winning the cup? Without looking, 1987. Ian Ferguson latching on a through ball (from Abercromby IIRC) to beat Dundee Utd 1-0. I could even give you the team for that day. 'Nuff said.

jings...(Chic Youngs twin brother !)

[Tug]

win in the cup for me

would no doubt lead to an argument or 6 but a hampden day out would be amazing

[Charles Bannerman]

Hang on a minute, there's a huge inconsistency in this thread. The poll question says "Would you rather beat Celtic in the League or the Cup"? But almost instantly the additional assumption seems to be taken on board that ICT would then straightforwardly go on to win the next three ties as well and hence win the Cup itself.

Simples? Aye, right!

There is a MASSIVE difference between beating Celtic full stop (a huge ask in itself) and a defeat of Celtic as the second of six straight victories in Scottish Cup ties this season which is what winning the Cup would require. But some people seem to make this sound so straightforward.

I would imagine that ICT actually winning the Cup would bring in more money than would be lost as a result of any fall in SLP placing resulting from the other half of the hyopthesis which is losing to Celtic in the SPL and of course also to the disruptive effect a Cup run of this magnitude might have on league form.

But, unlikely though that may now look to many, should this hypothetical Cup victory also be accompanied by relegation then this would be a victory which would be Pyrrhic in the extreme because, make no mistake, a second relegation would be potentially catastrophic for ICT.

But then follow the argument through the actual wording of the question - would you prefer to beat Celtic in the League or the Cup (full stop)? The next question has to be - but what do you get in the quarter finals? St. Mirren away and lose the tie? Would you still prefer to sacrifice your three hypothetical league points and the boost such a victory would give to the rest of the campaign?

I think realism has to be felt here and the reality is that ICT MAY beat Celtic in this Cup tie, but irrespective of what heppened in February 2000 and March 2003, the bookies will have Celtic as odds on favourites to progress.

That scenario is a VERY long way from ICT winning the Cup!

Edited January 19, 2012 by Charles Bannerman

[+DoofersDad]

With respect Charles, that's rubbish! Of course there is no guarantee that if we beat Celtic we will win the cup (after all, we've beaten them twice and not won it!) but what there is a guarantee of is that if we don't beat Celtic in the next round, we won't win it. No inconsistency at all.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Cup for me. I know we would still be 3 games away from actually winning it. But we'd only be ONE game away from another semi at Hampden. That'll do me for starters.

[Charles Bannerman]

With respect Charles, that's rubbish! Of course there is no guarantee that if we beat Celtic we will win the cup (after all, we've beaten them twice and not won it!) but what there is a guarantee of is that if we don't beat Celtic in the next round, we won't win it. No inconsistency at all.

DD... the poll question asks specifically whether respondents would prefer to beat Celtic in the Cup or in the League. Instantly, responses come back based on a totally different scenario which is the huge extrapolation to ICT actually WINNING the cup. If that's not an inconsistency, then I don't know what is.

I'm not actually advocating a response of "League" to the original question. I'm only pointing out that on the basis of that question, the answer is perhaps not totally black (green?) and white.

On the other hand if the original question had been "Would you prefer to WIN the Cup or beat Celtic in the League" the answer would clearly have to be "Win the Cup". That, of course, is provided that the three points surrendered to Celtic were not the ones which cost a second relegation which - as I said before - would be literally catastrophic.

[Yngwie]

Turning the question round in a different way.........which of the two games would Celtic rather win?

[+DoofersDad]

With respect Charles, that's rubbish! Of course there is no guarantee that if we beat Celtic we will win the cup (after all, we've beaten them twice and not won it!) but what there is a guarantee of is that if we don't beat Celtic in the next round, we won't win it. No inconsistency at all.

DD... the poll question asks specifically whether respondents would prefer to beat Celtic in the Cup or in the League. Instantly, responses come back based on a totally different scenario which is the huge extrapolation to ICT actually WINNING the cup. If that's not an inconsistency, then I don't know what is.

I'm not actually advocating a response of "League" to the original question. I'm only pointing out that on the basis of that question, the answer is perhaps not totally black (green?) and white.

On the other hand if the original question had been "Would you prefer to WIN the Cup or beat Celtic in the League" the answer would clearly have to be "Win the Cup". That, of course, is provided that the three points surrendered to Celtic were not the ones which cost a second relegation which - as I said before - would be literally catastrophic.

I, and I suspect everyone else are well aware of what the question is. The answer remains that I would rather beat Celtic in the cup than the league. I would rather win the league than the cup but we have a better chance of winning the cup than the league. Also, losing in the cup ends your chance of winning it, but losing in the league does not end your chance of winning the league (or coming 6th or wherever).

There is no inconsistency in talking about winning the cup. We would rather beat Celtic in the cup than the league because we want to win the cup and beating Celtic in the cup keeps that dream alive. In other words the answer to the question would be exactly the same if the question was "Would you prefer to WIN the Cup or beat Celtic in the League". There would only be a different answer if you didn't want to win the cup, but why would you want be beat Celtic in the cup and not want to win the cup!

[+DoofersDad]

Turning the question round in a different way.........which of the two games would Celtic rather win?

I would have thought that Celtic would rather win the league game. Winning the title and getting into the Champions league has to be their goal and they really can't afford to drop points at home against teams in the bottom six when they are neck and neck with Rangers.

So that's settled, they let us win the cup match and we'll let them win the league match.

[PaderbornCaley]

If we lose the game at Parkhead and the Pars win who ever they are playing, then we are back in trouble. A league win would go a long way to survival. We've never won at Parkhead (in the league) either, however I'd take 2 wins!

Edited January 19, 2012 by CapitalCaley

[bauhaus]

A cup win against Celtic again would boost our profile much further that beating them in the league, as this particular league game will not be the decisive blow to their title challenge, but it would be decisive to their cup asperations and their treble challenge.

A win in the cup keeps our dream alive of Hampden, and regaining the bragging rights over County in the cup final stakes, which will only be bettered really when we win the cup.

A league defeat against Celtic in the goldfishbowl, aint going to relegate us, its the other games against our rivals that might.

Our only chance of silverware nationally is in the cups, either will do, and i just hope we can achieve that with Tel and Mo

[Alex MacLeod]

We are a professional football team. We should be looking to win every game regardless of opponent or competition.