Is Butcher solely to blame?

[SMEE]

As far as i see.....all the blame for the state that ICT currently finds itself in, seems to be levelled at TB. But i got to thinking, last i knew....we still had a Director Of Football. Doesnt players coming and goings have to go thro such people usually?

Is Grassa perhaps due a little of the blame to, if indeed there is blame to be apportioned??

Just curious to know what role he has played in all this goings on, if any at all

[gordieict]

I am not sure that Grassa is Director of football anymore I think Butcher does that job as well

Edited June 2, 2012 by gordieict

[SMEE]

I am not sure that Grassa is Dorector of football anymore I think Butcher does that job as well

oh...ok...that might explain thing a little better then

[Alex MacLeod]

Agree with Gordie. I think the Director of Football has been done away with. There is no mention of the position on the official website nor in last years accounts.

[AJS]

Blame Scottish football and its slow developing death.

[SMEE]

Blame Scottish football and its slow developing death.

Well yeah, this is true...Scottish football is going thro a crisis, but i think the other clubs dont have the added handicap of having pretty much only a handful of players to speak of, with other players deserting left right and centre

[Guest]

Blame Scottish football and its slow developing death.

Well yeah, this is true...Scottish football is going thro a crisis, but i think the other clubs dont have the added handicap of having pretty much only a handful of players to speak of, with other players deserting left right and centre

Very true. Players wise, Scottish football really need more than a handful skillful players.

[Renegade]

I just checked one of the programmes and Bennet is now down as "Vice Chairman".

[caleyboy]

I just checked one of the programmes and Bennet is now down as "Vice Chairman".

Correct. Butcher didn't want a DofF so Grassa had to step down. Probably helped Butchers budget as well. So the answer to the question is - Butcher is solely to blame!

Edited June 2, 2012 by caleyboy

[bdu98196]

So the lack of money available in Scottish Football and the inability of the club to offer salaries that players expect is all the fault of TB.

Seems there is a hardcore TB witch hunt on here with certain fans - its all getting very boring and predictable that every thread has the same people posting their anti TB comments.

Sure there have been managerial mistakes with certain players coming in, but others have been a success. Promotion, SPL survival, long inbeaten runs - I count that as not doing too bad. Ok we had a poor season this year and some of the football wanst great but most importantly we are still SPL so lets support the club and build from here for the future both finacially and on the field!!

[Proctor]

It isn't all Butcher's fault but we are getting players pinched from us from the likes of St Johnstone who finished below us in the SPL last year and who get smaller average crowds than us. Butcher has been awful in the transfer market and has replaced Caley Thistle stalwarts with some pretty ropey players who have not stayed at the club. I'm not asking that we sign the likes of Messi. I would just like to see us pick up more players from the Scottish lower leagues who are more likley to stay in the area longer than someone born in England. I'm reserving my proper judgement until I see some replacements coming in,. For all I know Butcher is looking to bring in some gems. I am slightly doubtfull.

[Renegade]

Am I not right in saying that Bennet's position as DoF was only a three day a week thing and was essentially unpaid?

[The Long Man]

Every club in Scotland has economic problems. That isn't an excuse for a manager's decisions. If anything it sharpens the demands on a manager to deploy his limited resources effectively. Whatever economic restraints there are doesn't alter the fact that decisions have to be made, and every decision is a choice and part of a strategy. All the managers are acting under such conditions. The debate is whether TB is able to do it - he has muddled through last season with some ropey signings and tactics, so it is hardly surprising that there is a debate about what he brings to the club. The economic conditions are a challenge, but not a get-out-of-jail card where he is immune from criticism for making poor decisions.

If we could only keep Ross if he accepted a drastic cut in wages, then I await TB's decision to take a pay cut for the sake of the club's survival. LOL

Edited June 2, 2012 by The Long Man

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

If the leader has a narcissistic personality, he will make sure that his senior management team is comprised of co-dependants. If the leader is a codependent, and there is a narcissist in his senior management team, then the codependent will do the bidding of the narcissist (remember, he already subscribes to the narcissist's world view). The best bet for an effective leader is a non narcissist who has the strength of character to deal with narcissists.

But non narcissists in the workplace who are committed to being fair and nice to others may further compound the problem. They are naturally unwilling or unprepared to hold the narcissist accountable for his behavior. Confrontation is not part of their personality, so their failure to confront the narcissist only serves to reinforce the narcissist's belief in his dominance, thereby strengthening his position.

An emotionally hazardous work environment is a workplace lead by a narcissistic manager who believes in demonstrating power and control over employees, dominating others through a combination of direct threats and stealth methods. But when the narcissistic manager gets his (or her) feelings hurt, or perceives he has been slighted in any way, or is threatened that an employee's abilities might be better than his own, he will react with aggression. The time it takes for the narcissist to change from Mr Nice Guy to Mr Angry can be very short, and some of the methods he uses as means of control are abuse, narcissistic rage, splitting, projection , character asssasination (eg. Munro "accepted" it with "dignity" ), and intimidation.

[tm4tj]

I thought Daniel Sankowsky said that.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

What did Danny say that about Grant Munro ?

[tm4tj]

Dan as I know him.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Now I know that you are on the wind up - Danny Sanky hates being called Dan. But he knows a feckin narcissist when he sees one.

[tm4tj]

Yes, he told me about you.

[Doofer]

You cant put all the blame on Butcher. Financial restraints are playing a huge part, hence why rossco, hayes, tansey etc have all left bacuase ICT cant afford the wages. Perhaps if we had larger crowds week in week out we could afford to pay players a bit more and keep the bestter players. I think the blame lays with many people. The SPL itself, the board, Butcher, the players and the not enough supporters. You simply can't blame one person, is madness!!!!

[PaderbornCaley]

As far as i see.....all the blame for the state that ICT currently finds itself in, seems to be levelled at TB. But i got to thinking, last i knew....we still had a Director Of Football. Doesnt players coming and goings have to go thro such people usually?

Is Grassa perhaps due a little of the blame to, if indeed there is blame to be apportioned??

Just curious to know what role he has played in all this goings on, if any at all

In terms of players coming and going, Butcher has to take the blame for some individual cases. But Butcher has to report to someone. I thought it was Grassa but obviously not. The board have let certain things happen and they are to blame as well. Vigurs, Munro, Duncan, Tokely. Four players that should have still been playing with us. Debatable about Duncan due to him going back down to Div 3, but I think he was still worthy.

Butchers not to blame for the "state that ICT currently finds itself in". I'm not sure if you mean financially or the team on the park or both. The Manager is responsible for the team, but he seems to have such a free reign that he can do what he wants. He's at fault for ripping the heart and soul out of the team, but the board let him and therefore must take some of the blame.

Edited June 2, 2012 by CapitalCaley

[The Long Man]

The board let him?? The board are terrified of him. He runs the ship, so yes he carries the can for mistakes.

[Oddquine]

You cant put all the blame on Butcher. Financial restraints are playing a huge part, hence why rossco, hayes, tansey etc have all left bacuase ICT cant afford the wages. Perhaps if we had larger crowds week in week out we could afford to pay players a bit more and keep the bestter players. I think the blame lays with many people. The SPL itself, the board, Butcher, the players and the not enough supporters. You simply can't blame one person, is madness!!!!

ICT can't afford the wages because they don't have enough fans in the Inverness area interested enough to attend the games....so doesn't that indicate that Inverness has an SPL team, but much of the town doesn't care at all.

And would that not, logically, indicate that Inverness has the SPL team it deserves?

Maybe not the SPL team those who do attend the games think they deserve, and I can see their point......but a manager and board can only afford the players their income allows them to employ.....and if the punters don't provide the income, the manager and board can't sign the players.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Oddquine

[dougal]

Good points oddquine whether we like it or not ICT definitely don't have the fanbase there are more football fans in the city that support other teams rather than their local team

Now I have my opinions on why that is but I'll not go into it again knowing I will be verbally attacked but here are two links backing up my initial point

http://www.invernessreds.co.uk/

http://www.spanglefish.com/invernessrosscountyindependentsupportersclub

Along with all the old firm fans/buses that leave Inverness every Saturday that is a lot of any fans in anyone's book

It's highly likely that Ross County will have a higher average attendance than us next season and yet Dingwalls population is less than 6000!!!!!!

The apathy of the Invernessian football supporter

Dougal

[Alex MacLeod]

The only thing your links prove dougal is that at least one person living in Inverness supports Aberdeen and runs a website and another does the same for County. As for County having a bigger support. That wont happen simply because they will find themselves in exactly the same situation as ICT. When the novelty wears of the support will fall.