ICTFC Squad Update 21/22

[STFU]

22 hours ago, RiG said:

Robertson definitely did well taking some absolute jobbers like Donaldson, White and Chalmers and turning them into good players. Granted he had plenty of misses as well but so did Butcher. 

I wouldn't put these players in the unidentified/unrealised talent category.  They are guys who, as you rightly describe them, are jobbers.  They have obvious talent, but bounce around clubs because they generally only perform at any one place for a short period of time or they have a knack of pissing people off and get moved on.

The genius with many of these signings is that if we get a good first season or so out of them, then Ross County come calling and we offload them before they turn sour.

[+Robert]

Brian Rice is quoted in the Courier saying we have got a good one in Steven Boyd. He wanted to keep him at Alloa but Boyd wanted back into a full time club. Hopefully Rice is right.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/rice-boyd-is-a-fantastic-signing-for-ict-278987/

Edited June 21, 2022 by Robert

[BlockedonTwitter]

On 6/21/2022 at 6:48 PM, Robert said:

Brian Rice is quoted in the Courier saying we have got a good one in Steven Boyd. He wanted to keep him at Alloa but Boyd wanted back into a full time club. Hopefully Rice is right.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/rice-boyd-is-a-fantastic-signing-for-ict-278987/

That's not what the Alloa fans are saying but then it's a Rice quote so we can take that with a pinch of salt. He has hardly lit his Managerial roles up since leaving us. Proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say ... a Rice pudding! Sorry couldn't help myself.

[caleyboy]

1 hour ago, Jockdoonsouth said:

That's not what the Alloa fans are saying but then it's a Rice quote so we can take that with a pinch of salt. He has hardly lit his Managerial roles up since leaving us. Proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say ... a Rice pudding! Sorry couldn't help myself.

Why not support the lad instead of tagging him a failure before he kicks a ball

[Scotty]

Crosspost from the Nathan Shaw thread : 

 

We will see how he does ... Over the years we have had equal measure of turning jobbers into decent players for us - who then return to being jobbers when they move elsewhere - but we have also signed some out and out duds who never live up to whatever potential someone saw in them. There is a key phrase in that article for me and it is 3 simple words - "reignite his career" . The lad was playing for Celtic as a youngster and had played for Scotland youth before having to drop a couple of leagues after Hamilton so he's clearly not a bad player. However, that fall from the top level has got to hurt a little and of course the head can go down. The article talks about how he wants full time football ...  if he wants it enough, then perhaps he is motivated to work hard and achieve it. Give the lad a chance and hopefully it works out for us (and him).    

[STFU]

 

5 hours ago, caleyboy said:

Why not support the lad instead of tagging him a failure before he kicks a ball

Because he's kicked lots of balls and has shown that to be the case?

The whole "judge me on what I do from here, not what I've done till now" is the same BS argument being used to keep Boris in power.

I'm not sure a playing career that's been in constant decline is any indication that "he's not a bad player", quite the opposite.

I think Jock is justified in his appraisal and he didn't actually say that Boyd shouldn't be given a chance, however it's for the player to perform and change minds, not to expect nobody to judge him on what he's achieved (or not) till now.

[RiG]

Incredible name

 

[+IBM]

Let’s hope he will be a good one 😀

[+Robert]

He’s not played a league game for Wycombe, although he made three cup tie appearances, and is only 21 so hopefully another with potential:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Ram

He’s a central defender so presumably brought in to provide cover for Devine, Duffy and Deas given Broadfoot has left.

I still think we need to bring in a right back and ideally also a left back and a creative wide player.

With our first competitive match only a week and a half away, hopefully there are more signings pending.

On addition, one of our academy players has joined Rangers. I hope he doesn’t live to regret that:

https://ictfc.com/ict-academy-player-kieron-willox-signs-for-rangers

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Robert

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

We have finally found a solution to opposition songs with our signing of Ram...

[+Robert]

On 6/20/2022 at 1:40 PM, Ritchie Sacramento said:

It'd be lovely to get an actual full back in but it looks like Tumilty will likely be heading to Hartlepool or St Mirren.

He’s joined Hartlepool. 

[RiG]

14 hours ago, Robert said:

On addition, one of our academy players has joined Rangers. I hope he doesn’t live to regret that:

https://ictfc.com/ict-academy-player-kieron-willox-signs-for-rangers

That statement is utterly nauseating.

[STFU]

A signing like this excites me.  At the start of their career and every chance they are keen, looking to prove themselves and not just chasing a final wage.

Same reason we should be bringing more of our own youngsters through sooner.  Who knows, maybe if we show willing to give a chance at first team football a bit sooner, then they may sign their contracts and not disappear out the door for virtually nothing when they turn 16 🤷‍♂️

[Kingsmills]

Good to see us recruiting youngsters with potential or who hsve lodt their way a bit.

It would be nice to think that there may be enough cash left in the pot for a couple of more tried and tested players either signed or on season long loan.

I think that will be necessary to sustain s promotion challenge it what, once again, will be a competitive division.

[Scotty]

10 hours ago, STFU said:

Same reason we should be bringing more of our own youngsters through sooner.  Who knows, maybe if we show willing to give a chance at first team football a bit sooner, then they may sign their contracts and not disappear out the door for virtually nothing when they turn 16 🤷‍♂️

We can bring them through, but you have to be careful. There is the adage that if you are good enough, you are old enough, and i loosely agree with that, but its been shown time and again that the vast majority of academy graduates or youth players are neither physically or mentally ready to play every game. Their minutes have to be managed and there needs to be a balance. Otherwise you run the risk of wrecking a career before its even begun.  

 

I see the same thing week in and week out at Toronto these days ... There are 11 academy graduates (and several other u-22 players who came from elsewhere) in the 30 man first team squad (currently 27/30 in the squad) and in some games we have seen 6 or more of them start as Bob Bradley rebuilds from the clusterf*** of having Chris Armas as our manager in 2020/21 (the same guy labelled Ted Lasso at Man Utd this year). Players like Ralph Priso, Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, Jayden Nelson, Kosi Thompson, and Deandre Kerr have all seen significant game time this year and are all under 19. All of them are exciting talents with (just turned 18yo) Jahkeele deemed most likely to perhaps emulate Alphonso Davies who went from Vancouver to Bayern Munich and lit up the Bundesliga. These are players who I would definitely label as "good enough". The others I counted are all under 22 and have also seen a lot of game time simply because of how MLS works ... Bradley cut-out the deadwood late last year and signed some players to replace them, but MLS player and squad rules being what they are you cant do it in one fell swoop regardless of how much money you have (and Toronto are wealthy). Until July 7th Bradley can sign no more players as that's when the transfer window opens in MLS. Lorenzo Insigne has already arrived from Napoli and lots of rumours about other players but the 5 I mentioned above are still likely to see a lot of time on the park. 

What I have noticed from all of the youngsters, including the 5 teenagers, is that they certainly have the skill, and the athleticism of youth, but in some cases they just cannot physically match up to bigger and older players as they simply haven't fully developed physically yet. They also don't have the guile or experience to draw or get away with fouls or to see a plan or a run from other players in the same way that an older player can and that can lead to needless errors and ultimately heads going down. They will get there, but when the club was going through last season and the first third of this season, and losing a lot of games, the errors got worse and the players form dipped. Last year, you could see it with one particular player who was played a lot and this year he has had to go out on loan to rebuild confidence as it was shattered ... but at least the manager does see potential in him rather than cutting him loose like would and does happen at some clubs ...

 

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

13 hours ago, RiG said:

That statement is utterly nauseating.

Wonder who wrote it?

[FrontRow]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:36 AM, Jockdoonsouth said:

That's not what the Alloa fans are saying but then it's a Rice quote so we can take that with a pinch of salt. He has hardly lit his Managerial roles up since leaving us. Proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say ... a Rice pudding! Sorry couldn't help myself.

He looked pretty sharp tonight, admittedly against a poor Clach team but he’s got decent feet and looks to have a bit of pace. 

[old caley girl]

What an enjoyable night out! Great seeing everyone again. 10 goals!!! Ethan Cairns looking good in 2nd half. Like the look of him. Hopefully a sign we are going for it this season albeit against a poor Clach side

[STFU]

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

We can bring them through, but you have to be careful. There is the adage that if you are good enough, you are old enough, and i loosely agree with that, but its been shown time and again that the vast majority of academy graduates or youth players are neither physically or mentally ready to play every game. Their minutes have to be managed and there needs to be a balance. Otherwise you run the risk of wrecking a career before its even begun.  

 

I see the same thing week in and week out at Toronto these days ... There are 11 academy graduates (and several other u-22 players who came from elsewhere) in the 30 man first team squad (currently 27/30 in the squad) and in some games we have seen 6 or more of them start as Bob Bradley rebuilds from the clusterf*** of having Chris Armas as our manager in 2020/21 (the same guy labelled Ted Lasso at Man Utd this year). Players like Ralph Priso, Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty, Jayden Nelson, Kosi Thompson, and Deandre Kerr have all seen significant game time this year and are all under 19. All of them are exciting talents with (just turned 18yo) Jahkeele deemed most likely to perhaps emulate Alphonso Davies who went from Vancouver to Bayern Munich and lit up the Bundesliga. These are players who I would definitely label as "good enough". The others I counted are all under 22 and have also seen a lot of game time simply because of how MLS works ... Bradley cut-out the deadwood late last year and signed some players to replace them, but MLS player and squad rules being what they are you cant do it in one fell swoop regardless of how much money you have (and Toronto are wealthy). Until July 7th Bradley can sign no more players as that's when the transfer window opens in MLS. Lorenzo Insigne has already arrived from Napoli and lots of rumours about other players but the 5 I mentioned above are still likely to see a lot of time on the park. 

What I have noticed from all of the youngsters, including the 5 teenagers, is that they certainly have the skill, and the athleticism of youth, but in some cases they just cannot physically match up to bigger and older players as they simply haven't fully developed physically yet. They also don't have the guile or experience to draw or get away with fouls or to see a plan or a run from other players in the same way that an older player can and that can lead to needless errors and ultimately heads going down. They will get there, but when the club was going through last season and the first third of this season, and losing a lot of games, the errors got worse and the players form dipped. Last year, you could see it with one particular player who was played a lot and this year he has had to go out on loan to rebuild confidence as it was shattered ... but at least the manager does see potential in him rather than cutting him loose like would and does happen at some clubs ...

 

I hear you and I know we always get told this, but the evidence doesn't seem to support it.

I cite Hearts, Dundee Utd and, dare I say it, Rangers! as examples which immediately spring to mind.  Clubs who, in recent years, have been forced to use squads full of younger players and have done pretty well in doing so.  Sadly 2 of those clubs resorted to old habits when finances improved and I suspect Utd will do likewise as well.  Do they/we all think they were lucky with the younger players and fear slipping if they continue on that road?  Where are all the reports of ruined careers?

[STFU]

Does this suggest that Charlie Christie doesn't think Dodds is the kind of manager who will give young players a chance?

[Scotty]

6 hours ago, STFU said:

I hear you and I know we always get told this, but the evidence doesn't seem to support it.

I cite Hearts, Dundee Utd and, dare I say it, Rangers! as examples which immediately spring to mind.  Clubs who, in recent years, have been forced to use squads full of younger players and have done pretty well in doing so.  Sadly 2 of those clubs resorted to old habits when finances improved and I suspect Utd will do likewise as well.  Do they/we all think they were lucky with the younger players and fear slipping if they continue on that road?  Where are all the reports of ruined careers?

The evidence is anecdotal ... players whose careers are affected by this seem to just fade away ... they sign for lower league clubs or slip out of the game with little or no fanfare. Supporters might not notice, or turn around and say they 'found their level' like was said about Rory McCallister, and indeed some of it may be just that, in the same way as you might only get 1 or 2 out of 100 academy kids reaching the first team but burnout does happen.  You say Rangers did it - very true, but both them and Celtic cherry pick youngsters from all around the leagues not just their own academy so I would argue the stats there may be skewed.  

Best example I can think of in world football of burnout like this would be Freddy Adu, but like I said, i see it myself at Toronto over the last two years especially. Luke Singh was - in my opinion - almost ruined by our former boss after being expected to play in the first team every week. He got hung out to dry for a poor performance after 6 or 7 weeks as he wasnt mentally ready to play every week, and his head went down. He was dropped after that last appearance and we havent seen him since. He is now on loan at FC Edmonton in the tier below MLS. Our new boss Bob Bradley has a lot of youngsters in the squad, and although he is trying to manage their minutes more closely, has little alternative but to rely on youth a lot as he rebuilds. That comes with challenges of enthusiastic but inexperienced performances, as well as the risk of burnout. It doesnt take much to shatter a young player's confidence. 

Bottom line is I am not saying we should not play the youngsters, but lets manage our own expectations. Every player cant be Ryan Christie or Daniel Mackay and we are more likely to see half a dozen who are competent and grow into the role more slowly - or not at all. I was impressed with what I saw of Hyde towards the end of last season so provided we have coaches who will mentor and develop these types players that's fine ... but its not the answer to all our issues or budgets.     

 

[RiG]

In shock news Danny Devine has been released by Caley Thistle and is apparently on trial at Dundee.

May be a different Danny Devine of course...

[+Robert]

Good job there is more than one Danny Devine playing football!!

[TheStickyBandit]

Read on the Courier that Oakley was a trialist for us against Brora. What's people's thoughts on his potential return?

[Donald1973]

3 hours ago, TheStickyBandit said:

Read on the Courier that Oakley was a trialist for us against Brora. What's people's thoughts on his potential return?

He wasn't particularly great the first time round