Political Stance

[DornochCaley]

Many moons ago I was a member of the Mock United Nations conference from Highland schools, and as South Africa, we got a resolution passed. I was 17 at the time, and was completely out of my depth, and spent most of the two hours thinking about how i'd have to climb the hill when i got home to clear leaves away from the water filter we had.

Dornoch Caley - you are well ahead of the game, good for you.

Seems it's not everyone on here that wants to give me stick.

Cheers :021:

[starchief]

Seems it's not everyone on here that wants to give me stick.

Cheers :021:

I don't either. You're young and idealistic. I'm pretty sure that'll dampen down as we have to live in the world that is, not in the one we wish for. But at this stage in your life, it's a good place to start.

[TopSix]

The posts in this thread have reminded me of a lecturer I had at Aberdeen called Byron Criddle. He always used to say that a young person who wasn't a socialist doesn't have a heart while a person out of their teens and a socialist doesn't have a head. I googled this tonight and I am guessing he was quoting David Lloyd George. Either way I think it's great young people are discussing politics.

On a more cynical point, have a think about this quote below in relation to the way in which bankers are being vilified in the media at the moment.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

Edited December 15, 2009 by Top Six Next Year

[DornochCaley]

The posts in this thread have reminded me of a lecturer I had at Aberdeen called Byron Criddle. He always used to say that an young person who wasn't a socialist doesn't have a heart while a person out of their teens and a socialist doesn't have a head. I googled this tonight and I am guessing he was quoting David Lloyd George. Either way I think it's great young people are discussing politics.

On a more cynical point, have a think about this quote below in relation to the way in which bankers are being vilified in the media at the moment.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

The way i see it, that quote from Churchill sums up Capitalist views. Especially those of the higher classes as they fear the Working Class people. They know, a united working class, will over come the higher classes with no trouble at all. But at the moment, the Working Class is split by False Capitalist promises, which some WC are foolish enough to believe. Then there is Racism, Sectarianism. Two evils which will need to be stopped if the working class are to ever to be fully united. Capitalism is the philosophy of failure. Hence the recessions we find ourselves in every few decades, the equality the world has. Capitalism, in short, is the philosposhy for the Greedy, which is obvious. But it is those working class people who support it that are the true ignorant ones. They are allowing the Higher Classes to take advantage.

[Charles Bannerman]

The way i see it, that quote from Churchill sums up Capitalist views. Especially those of the higher classes as they fear the Working Class people. They know, a united working class, will over come the higher classes with no trouble at all. But at the moment, the Working Class is split by False Capitalist promises, which some WC are foolish enough to believe. Then there is Racism, Sectarianism. Two evils which will need to be stopped if the working class are to ever to be fully united. Capitalism is the philosophy of failure. Hence the recessions we find ourselves in every few decades, the equality the world has. Capitalism, in short, is the philosposhy for the Greedy, which is obvious. But it is those working class people who support it that are the true ignorant ones. They are allowing the Higher Classes to take advantage.

Did you ever play Wolfie Smith on the TV in a previous incarnation?

[Heilandee]

Did you ever play Wolfie Smith on the TV in a previous incarnation?

I think everyone, when younger, played Wolfie Smith at some point of their life Charles,but then real life kicks in :(

[Johnboy]

The way i see it, that quote from Churchill sums up Capitalist views. Especially those of the higher classes as they fear the Working Class people. They know, a united working class, will over come the higher classes with no trouble at all. But at the moment, the Working Class is split by False Capitalist promises, which some WC are foolish enough to believe. Then there is Racism, Sectarianism. Two evils which will need to be stopped if the working class are to ever to be fully united. Capitalism is the philosophy of failure. Hence the recessions we find ourselves in every few decades, the equality the world has. Capitalism, in short, is the philosposhy for the Greedy, which is obvious. But it is those working class people who support it that are the true ignorant ones. They are allowing the Higher Classes to take advantage.

Did you ever play Wolfie Smith on the TV in a previous incarnation?

Think that one might be lost on DC, Charles, given that it (Citizen Smith) was an early seventies sit-com, and he is 16 years old...

As far as I can remember the Wolfie character in that show, played by a young Robert Lindsay, was heavily influenced by Guevara, hence the avatar resemblance.

Hail Citizens!

[Yngwie]

From Wiki:

Citizen Smith is a British television sitcom. The show was written by John Sullivan, who went on later to write Only Fools and Horses. The Pilot was transmitted on 12 April 1977 in the Comedy Special series of one-off plays, and the series properly ran from 3 November 1977 to 31 December 1980.

Citizen Smith starred Robert Lindsay as "Wolfie" Smith, a young Trotskyist urban revolutionary living in Tooting, South London, who is attempting to emulate his hero Che Guevara. Wolfie is the self-proclaimed leader of the Tooting Popular Front (in reality a small bunch of his friends) the goals of which are "Power to the People" and "Freedom for Tooting". In reality, he is an unemployed dreamer and petty criminal whose plans fall through because of laziness and disorganisation.

[PullMyFinger]

I'm interested to know what income bracket DornochCaley thinks the working class fill, and what income bracket his "upper" classes fill.

Ideals are wonderful but when it comes to practice they fall down. I'm a supervisor and my staff earn roughly the same as each other. The quality of work they do for me ranges from unacceptable to exceptional. Human nature being what it is, after a few years of a communist system it will stall. We will not do others work for them indefinitely without reward or recognition while they reap the same benefits.

Edited December 16, 2009 by PullMyFinger

[TopSix]

The most worrying and upsetting part of this is the fact that most folk DCs age would rather talk about xfactor than politics.

[PullMyFinger]

The most worrying and upsetting part of this is the fact that most folk DCs age would rather talk about xfactor than politics.

I'd rather talk about X factor than politics.

[PullMyFinger]

What's X factor?

[starchief]

A team of mutant super-heroes from Marvel Comics

[PullMyFinger]

Cool. :D

[TopSix]

What's X factor?

it's a programme where people convicted of assault are transformed into the the nations new sweetheart.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/oct/21/helencarter

Classy.

[Johnboy]

The most worrying and upsetting part of this is the fact that most folk DCs age would rather talk about xfactor than politics.

DC's age?

I'd say across the entire age spectrum - if this forum is anything to go by.

The viewing figures for x factor average arond 9.5 million each week, compared to the BBC's flagship politics show, Question Time, which averages around 2.5 million.

[starchief]

The most worrying and upsetting part of this is the fact that most folk DCs age would rather talk about xfactor than politics.

It's all so airbrushed that any real individuality is lost. They're told what to say, what to wear etc etc. Even if you do see something inspiring, then your vote is just one of millions, so it has little effect on the outcome. And, of course, just because they seem all sweetness and light, full of hope, that's only because they want to win. Once the voting is over, there's absolutely no guarantee they'll be any good.

Politics? I was talking about X-Factor.

[DornochCaley]

Well the real working Class doesn't really cme under how much you earn, more what job it is you do. Im just trying to keep it simple really, more for my own benifit so i don't get too confused. But its summed up this way;

-Those who work for their money, those who need to work to survive in life, are Working Class. People such as Sir. Allan Sugar who was born working class, though has got himself money, is classed as a Working Class man in a Middle Class world. Commonly typical Office workers, Builders, Labourers, Low earning Shop Keepers ect.

- Middle Class is usually those who own their own house that costs above a certain value, but also those who make enough money to save regulary for the future. Typical jobs such as a High earning Shop Keeper such as one who might own a local MacDonalds Franchise, Someone who is the manager of a institution ect.

-Upper Class are those who were born into money. Those who do not, and will never need to worry about money.

This is not made up ***** btw. It was in some book my English Teacher gave me. Obviously i just used the jobs and Sir. Allan Sugar as put in examples.

Im also no Criminal like this yon guy from that TV show!

Edited December 16, 2009 by DornochCaley

[Charles Bannerman]

-Those who work for their money, those who need to work to survive in life, are Working Class. People such as Sir. Allan Sugar who was born working class, though has got himself money, is classed as a Working Class man in a Middle Class world. Commonly typical Office workers, Builders, Labourers, Low earning Shop Keepers ect.

- Middle Class is usually those who own their own house that costs above a certain value, but also those who make enough money to save regulary for the future. Typical jobs such as a High earning Shop Keeper such as one who might own a local MacDonalds Franchise, Someone who is the manager of a institution ect.

-Upper Class are those who were born into money. Those who do not, and will never need to worry about money.

Corbett, Barker and Cleese!

Sorry DC, but you probably don't get that one either.

So, if you are born a WC is it possible to inoculate yourself against becoming an MC should you happen to become rich? Is this what Alan Sugar has done since it would appear from what has been said that the fact that he was born a WC guarantees him this status for life, despite the fact that he's worth millions? Is this some kind of jab you get along with tetanus and polio to stop you from ever becoming Middle Class?

And if you are upper class (UC) but require conversion for political ends, is there some kind of upmarket pill you can take that will make you a WC? Is this what Wedgie took in order to make the downward class mobility from being Lord Stansgate (UC) through Anthony Wedgwood Benn (MC) to plain Tony Benn (WC). (Presumably he was still UC when he called his son Hilary because in WC terms that's rather like being "a Boy Called Sue")

Old Chinese saying: "Socialism is the greatest political philosophy in the world - until you have to apply it to youerself."

I wonder if some people, in middle age, ever look back on their former political views the same way as adolescents of the 70s do on their sartorial and tonsorial preferences?

Edited December 16, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[DornochCaley]

-Those who work for their money, those who need to work to survive in life, are Working Class. People such as Sir. Allan Sugar who was born working class, though has got himself money, is classed as a Working Class man in a Middle Class world. Commonly typical Office workers, Builders, Labourers, Low earning Shop Keepers ect.

- Middle Class is usually those who own their own house that costs above a certain value, but also those who make enough money to save regulary for the future. Typical jobs such as a High earning Shop Keeper such as one who might own a local MacDonalds Franchise, Someone who is the manager of a institution ect.

-Upper Class are those who were born into money. Those who do not, and will never need to worry about money.

Corbett, Barker and Cleese!

Sorry DC, but you probably don't get that one either.

So, if you are born a WC is it possible to inoculate yourself against becoming an MC should you happen to become rich? Is this what Alan Sugar has done since it would appear from what has been said that the fact that he was born a WC guarantees him this status for life, despite the fact that he's worth millions? Is this some kind of jab you get along with tetanus and polio to stop you from ever becoming Middle Class?

And if you are upper class (UC) but require conversion for political ends, is there some kind of upmarket pill you can take that will make you a WC? Is this what Wedgie took in order to make the downward class mobility from being Lord Stansgate (UC) through Anthony Wedgwood Benn (MC) to plain Tony Benn (WC). (Presumably he was still UC when he called his son Hilary because in WC terms that's rather like being "a Boy Called Sue")

Old Chinese saying: "Socialism is the greatest political philosophy in the world - until you have to apply it to youerself."

I wonder if some people, in middle age, ever look back on their former political views the same way as adolescents of the 70s do on their sartorial and tonsorial preferences?

Well the fact is, Allan Sugar was born and raised a Working Class man. He was lucky enough to make himself many millions. So really, he is still a working class lad, as he worked for that money, though he is now in the Middle Class section of Society.

[PullMyFinger]

This might help.

[Charles Bannerman]

Thank you PMF! Got it to work eventually and it was as hilarious as I remembered it from many years ago!

Edited December 16, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[PullMyFinger]

Always a pleasure to see comedy genius at work.

I see Tony's still not bovvered about Iraq though.

[ictchris]

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: 7.75

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.18

Libertarian right winger, yeah baby.

[CaleyD]

I got....."You have broken the Political Compass"