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Should Hughes be SACKED?


Guest Mahonio

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After about 6 months into the final season of Brewsters ill-fated second spell in charge the supporters trust called a meeting over the fans concerns about Brewster, I am curious if CJT are considering a meeting to discuss Hughes? The strength of feeling about Hughes, not only from fans on here but a vast majority I speak to is probably is as strong as it was about Brewster

 

It won;t happen yet, not until every excuse has been exhausted.

 

edit- which is a failure of the pally nature of all local relationships between media, sponsors and anyone else who needs to stay in regular contact with the club.  I guess its up to the SPFL Chairman of the Year and others with a financial stake/take from the club to shun people they don't see eye to eye with, couldnt blame them for it really, you cant critisise them from within.

Edited by clacher_holiday2
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Personally I thought we were back to our usual fast paced, direct style of play tonight rather than the slower, short passing game that was on show in recent fixtures.   Maybe Hughes was trolling us

I'll have you know that Yogi lets me pick the team every week.

Brill is actually well on the way to rivalling or bettering the amount of clean sheets in a season at 20 (a record currently held by Ryan at 23) This doesn't tally with the current hand-wringing about

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Leo Strauss was a famous political philosopher who taught at the University of Chicago.  In the 1950s he came up with his famous term 'reductio ad hilterum', which means that if you try to argue against an opponent by comparing their viewpoint to that of Hitler or the Nazis, you've lost the argument.

 

I think we should introduce a similar rule when it comes to football management and tactics called 'reductio ad Guardiola' or 'reductio ad Barca'.  Barcelona can play the way they do because they have the best players in the world playing for them. If we had midfielders as good as Xavi and Iniesta then emphasising possession, keeping the ball and moving it would be a great tactic.  We don't have Xavi and Iniesta.  Barcelona's tactics aren't a valid comparison for most other clubs in the world and they certainly aren't for a club in the SPL.  It's nonsense and painful to read the manager of our club saying things like that.  It reminds me of the rubbish Alex Smith used to come out with when he was managing County - "I like small forwards, we play the right way, pass and move".  All teh while sucking the life out of the club and achieving nothing.

 

When it comes to being educated, when John Hughes took over this side he'd never managed a team as good as us.  His Falkirk sides were never as good as we were in the first part of this season, neither were his Hibs side really.  His Hartlepool team were relegated and his Livingston side bimbled away in the lower leagues.  He is the one who needs to be educated by what our side achieved at the start of the season. 

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Also, emphasising possession over all else, which is what Hughes does, is out of date and negative.  Keeping hold of the ball, no matter what, is negative - you are putting preventing the opposition scoring at the heart of your game, if they don't have the ball they can't score.  The issue is that not being Barcelona we aren't good enough to keep the ball, so put ourselves under pressure and end up knocking it long and/or giving away stupid goals by putting ourselves under pressure.  Emphasising pressure over position on the pitch also means that our attacking players don't get the ball near the opposition goals - look how isolated Mckay is most games now.  It's no surprise that he's hardly scored since the turn of the year.

 

Pressing high up the pitch, putting pressure on opponents and getting the ball into dangerous areas had us as one of the best teams in Scotland, with a deadly striker and some excellent attacking performances.  Now we are anything but that, we are soft touches.  The team selections and the quote that we are going to 'play down the middle' is just baffling.  There is no part of the pitch that is better to play through, you play to your strengths.  We have excellent players who can attack from wide areas - Nick Ross, Marley Watkins, Aaron Doran.  In the last few games at least two of those have been left on the bench while we string central midfielders across the park, who are told to keep the ball with each other at all costs, so we get pushed back, we turn backwards, we hit it long and lose the ball without threatening. 

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Without even checking, the last 4 finals were in order...

 

Dortmund v Bayern Munich

Chelsea v Bayern Munich

Barca v Man United

Inter v Bayern Munich

 

That one baffled me, too! I have no idea what game he's referring to!

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Without even checking, the last 4 finals were in order...

Dortmund v Bayern Munich

Chelsea v Bayern Munich

Barca v Man United

Inter v Bayern Munich

That one baffled me, too! I have no idea what game he's referring to!

Probably got mixed up between the Inter and Man United, easy mistake to make.

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If Hughes wants to play like a Spanish side he should go to Spain.

 

He needs to understand that it is the quality of the final ball that is  important - not the number of passes leading up to it.

 

It is interesting that he mentions Barcelona and to reflect that for the last 2 seasons Barcelona have made visits to Celtic Park.  In 2012 they lost 2-1 and last autumn they won just 1-0.  The continental style is to sit back and defend the space.  This gives players a bit more time on the ball.  The reason why Barcelona have struggled against Celtic is that Celtic pressed them hard in the Scottish way and disrupted their passing.  If Barca and their highly skilled players struggle against Celtic what on earth makes Hughes think that our good honest laddies can compete with Celtic playing in the Barca style?  Can't fault the guy for ambition but perhaps someone should tell him that we've already beaten Celtic a few times - and with squads not quite as good as we know have.  It was done by playing to our strengths.

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To be the most alarming thing is his most recent interview in todays P&J .

 

He is going to persevere with his "vision" no matter what.  "I'm in it with the supporters, but I have to put cotton wool in my ears and keep with my beliefs" well Yogi I am afraid not so many of the supporters are with you now.

 

Another quote " I hear so often about there being no Plan B, well someone tell me what Plan B is? Is it to get the centre half up to him and hope you get the the second ball, no its pass the ball quicker and get moving " So Yogi it appears no matter the opposition, no matter the circumstances, doesn't matter if we are chasing a late equaliser, lets just keep tapping it about the midfield.

 

I was in the doubtful camp, I have now moved to the lets get rid of the man before he does more damage. 

Edited by gordieict
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If we are going to continue playing the way Hughes states in the P & J today, it has to be done much quicker than we are doing now and even Hughes sees that. We are so one paced in midfield. So if this is to work, playrs have to take some rssponsibilty and move the ball quicker, which would really be a help to the side or if players are not capable of doing this (which i suspect the majority are not), then the syle has to be changed to one that suits the players we have. Simple when you think about it.

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Sacked? He should be taken away by the men in white coats for his own safety! That BBC article will come back to bite him again and again. :frustrated01: :frustrated01: :frustrated01: :frustrated01:

 

The point about Barcelona is that their style cannot be emulated by anybody else (and I'm talking world class teams here) because, for it to work, you need the very best players in the world to turn the tippy-tappy into a goalscoring opportunity. Others that have tried it have failed because they don't have Iniesta, Xavi and Messi. Every single player has to have exceptional vision and there has to be complete trust that a player can receive a pass under pressure and not give it away - the mistakes we've made over the last few games proves that we are nowhere near that level and never will be.

 

If there is an element of Barca football that we might want to emulate, it is the pressing game. There is nothing more productive than winning the ball in the top third of the pitch, but it requires every single person in the team doing a pressing job: one lazy player and it doesn't work. Barca (or perhaps Bayern) are the world's best at what they do without the ball - force the long ball or, better, win it off the defence and you've won.

Edited by PerfICT
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Any suggestions how to play a fast accurate passing game when the pitch is in the state ours is in??

 

As mentioned before, this is just the same as he peddled at his previous teams where it did not work either. How this has been missed by the Board is beyond me (will have to start dusting off IHE's "Muppets" quote shortly :ponder: )

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Just read the BBC article - everyone is laughing at us, we have gone from fighting against the odds to get respect and recognition for the club this season against the central belt bias to now have this tosh in the media undoing all that work and making our club look like its led by a baffon.

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Anyone wanting to play like Barcelona should be encouraged and with our squad I see no reason why a quick passing, high pressing tiki-taka strategy shouldn't work quite well. All we really need is for the passes to be quicker, movement to be a bit better and a keeper who is confident passing the ball.

Edited by Mithrandir
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Here's a reason: players.  The only player we have that can pass a ball is Tansey.  But he ain't quick.  We therefore need to get rid of Brill, Esson, Warren, Meekings, Draper, Foran, McKay and Vincent.  Doran, Williams and Watkins have to change to go more inward.  we then need to bring in a whole load of players for free and on low wages that can pass and move quickly, using intelligence and guile to undo the opposition.

 

We have no chance of getting those kind of players on our budget.  We don't have a single player on our books that suita that style.  Danny Lennon also wants to play that way but has a little more money.  How many of his players would improve ICT?

 

Or should we stick with the players and system that got us to 2nd place with games in hand?

 

Can we get a poll on this thread?  A simple Yes or No, that allows changes so we can see if results go up or down.

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Not only has he no real idea about what the 'Barcelona' style of play is given they have used overlapping full backs for years and all of their midfield go out wide but he obviously hasnt watched Barca lately without Messi playing.

 

Run of the mill La Liga sides can take them apart without Messi in there, even Celtic almost got a result.  People have been saying Barca are past their peak now this season, they haven't, its just that Messi has missed a few weeks of it

Edited by clacher_holiday2
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To be fair to Hughes I can see what he's trying to achieve...with a bit more 'education' I can see Draper being the natural successor to Xavi when he finally decides to hang up his boots.

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Teams that can press high up the pitch and break quickly well are hard to find, and need a coach who believes in that system.

We have just the former it seems. Why change a whole team's style and philosophy when they were 2nd in the league. The squad wasn't designed to do that, it seems like buying a football to then play table tennis with.

That being said, maybe the players are "loving it" but the bigger question is can they do it? Hughes obviously thinks so, as I don't think the squad will be changed. So, now we know what the hymn sheet says, let's see how well JH conducts this choir of burly workhorses.

That's the one and only thing JH and the board will now be judged on.

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