Lack of appreciation

[Jaggy666]

there have been comments about how small a club we are overall - money, fan size etc. and while i agree with charlie that the club has done very very well to get where we are in such a short space of time on a limited budget, the fact of the matter is we are now an SPL side so he needs to quit going back to his favourite excuse and just accept that there are gonna be fans (myself included) who will express their frustrations at mistakes done by either the players or the management! I will never boo the team, not even when we got humped by county 5-1, but i will voice my opinion whether it be on this board or elsewhere because believe it or not harry we have a right.

[Scotty]

Whether it is on the Internet or in the stadium, people are entitled to their opinions and so is Charlie.

Most of our opinions (valid or otherwise) dont matter to anyone but ourselves but Charlie is in the unfortunate position that every opinion he espouses can be reproduced, republished, used both in or out of context, and generally mangled in ways he perhaps didnt intend. He is also somewhat of a novice at dealing with the press so unless under the wing of the likes of Messrs Bannerman or McAllister he may say something he didnt intend to or in a manner he didnt mean.

He is not the first manager or player to have expressed frustration at certain parts of the crowd and I am sure he will not be the last.

I may not have had as much press coverage as CC, but I did have to literally watch every word I published and sanitise any comments I made on the message boards when the site was official as I was quoted and misquoted frequently by (some of) the press and taken to task by both supporters and club officials if i seemed to favour one opinion over another. Thankfully, I can now say whatever the **** I like and let my true opinions flow out because no-one cares about comments on an unofficial site .........

When I was in the fortunate position of being able to attend games every week, there were always a fair few 'constant whingers' in amongst those of us who tried to encourage the team. I think my frustration with the whingers when we were playing well was about the same as my frustration with the team when we were not playing well.

The only times I ever recall booing the team off the park was a certain game against Ross County (nuff said !!), and a cup game in Ayr. We got gubbed in both and just didnt look interested in the slightest. Most of the time, myself, Stewartie, Calum and the others around the tunnel would stay to the very end (sometimes the bitter end) and stand and applaud the team as they went down the tunnel .... not because they won or lost (although doing it when we won was easier), but because we knew they had given 100% ... In the meantime, the  whingers would slope off to put the rest of the world to rights over a 'hauf and a hauf' in the legion or Caley Club ...

As I said in a thread a month or two back, we seem to have a 5 point scale that both stadium and Internet fans seem to fall into ....

1. Nothing is ever right. Criticism is the only option and anyone who doesnt criticise has their head in the sand

2. Not much is right but we will occasionally give praise as a last resort.

3. Praise and criticism in equal measure - credit where its due, criticism when appropriate.

4. Not much is wrong but we will occasionally criticise as a last resort.

5. Nothing is ever wrong. Praise is the only option and anyone who doesnt agree is anti-ICT or a bad supporter

People are entitled to their opinions but if you see yourself as a '1' or a '5' I will probably disagree with you a fair amount of the time. I like to think I am a '3' but will admit to being a 2 or a 4 depending on my own mood on any given day.

In the stadium it is easy to point out the constant whingers or take them to task face-to-face, and I did that a few times over the years when the likes of Paul Ritchie (for example) couldnt do right for doing wrong in some fans eyes, but on the Internet, those who choose to remain anonymous can do so (on the surface at least), and it has been mentioned to me literally hundreds of times by Grassa, Charlie, Steve Paterson, Tommy and quite a few of the players that they never pay much heed to those who make comments or moan and groan while hiding behind a pseudonym. However, all criticism hurts and I dont believe they ignore it completely, just like they are happy not to ignore the praise when it comes.

Many of the posters on here post under names that dont hide who they are, or have been happy over time to introduce themselves to others by their Internet name - I can always respect those posters whether or not I agree with them or not. I have difficulty however in paying any attention to those who do their damndest to remain totally anonymous while slagging off the club whether they deserve it or not, or on the other end of the scale, slagging off those who have the audacity to criticise the club or the team when they do deserve it.

For my own sins - here is my opinion (if it matters).

Charlie Christie is still 'learning' to be a manager (not that any of us ever stop learning as the end of learning usually co-incides with the end of breathing !!). He has done plenty of things right, and he has also done things wrong. Thats called life. His selections/substitutions have earned us points in some games and have cost us points in others. Overall I think he is doing a good job and I am still confident that he is the right man for the job. I hope when he does make mistakes that he learns from them and tries not to make the same mistake again and has the balls to admit to them rather than look for excuses (or exc-useless-es as someone I know calls them).

I like most of his honesty in the media but sometimes think the mindset is wrong when he makes comments like 'club of our size' ... a comment that was made about 4 weeks in a row. It may be true in some respects but to me it smacks somewhat of the 'small team mentality' that has been talked about elsewhere and makes me cringe almost as much as Bill McAllister's puns in the 'Highland League Roundup' later on in sportsound.

I cant remember where the comment was made but someone mentioned something about Celtic last week that made me note two things - firstly, Celtic came up to Inverness two days before the game - not something an opponent who is taking you lightly would do, and secondly, when asked whether he had any sympathy for CC after the late goals, Strachan said 'NO' - again showing the rest of the nation that he considered ICT as a team he had to beat and not some small team he could have sympathy with after humping them. I want the manager of my favourite football team to be as confident that ICT have 'arrived' as the manager of Celtic is ......

On the other side of the coin, I think we as fans also have to be realistic. We are a 'developing' club who have made an incredible journey to the top over the last 12 years. In terms of resources, finances, fanbase and many other things we are definitely a small club in comparision to the rest of the SPL but perhaps not when compared to (most) lower league teams but if we are to progress we have to develop those resources both on and off the park.

I would like to think we are 'holding our own' in the SPL. I dont think we are punching above our weight (although that may very well have been true in our first season) but it is unlikely we will ever regularly finish in the top 6 unless and until we develop further. As fans we have tasted the sweet ambrosia of success over these last 12 years and have never known the bitterness, fear or heart-wrenching disappointment of relegation ... over the years we have had a habit of being promoted to a new division, having a half decent season in the first one and then looking like promotion contenders each season after that until we did go up.

What we are experiencing now is the realisation that there are some clubs above us who have been there for donkeys years and who have the resources, finances and fanbase to pay far more than us to sign players that we cant. Because of this we are going to have a few more dodgy results than we ever did when we were the gung-ho conquerors of the lower divisions, but if we can hover somewhere between 7th - 10th for the next few seasons, then there should be no reason why we cant continue to make further progress and be a club that regularly finishes somewhere in the top 6 ...........

anyway, this is now a book instead of a posting so I will stop and let someone else have a turn .......

[Harry Chibber]

he needs to quit going back to his favourite excuse

this is what I don't get... excuse for what?? not playing great football (or up to the standard he has already set for himself and the team in earlier games this season) when we had taken a BIG fall the weekend before but yet still managing to grind out all 3 points.    I'm not trying to say that fans can't get frustrated through a game, I will occasionally do the same but only to try and encourage the player.  My major gripe is the people on this forum that are constantly having a dig at Christie for anything he does wrong, he can't seem to do anything right.  Posters having a dig about the "CC appreciation society"....... as though it is unusual for a fan to get behind the manager of a team :010: :010:

I just don't get it TBH we are in one of the best positions we have ever been as a club, we have a manager that wants the best for the club and our fans seem **** bent on getting rid of him, just doesn't make sense.

Scotty - fair comments

[CaleyD]

If these people have such comments to make, if they have such unshakeable faith in their own viewpoints, why can't they find the moral courage or the integrity to let it be known who they really are?

"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team."

Sorry, that part of the post just reminded me of that  :015:

[CaleyD]

I think CC has a massive fear of failure which is in direct conflict with his ambitions for the club.  Here we have a guy who has given the best part of his career to ICT, who was in a 'job for life' behind the scenes and out of the direct public eye.  He was offered the managers job which he had to think long and hard about taking (due to fear of failure) but his ambitous side was stronger and he couldn't turn down the chance.

Move on to this day and I think he is still battling that conflict internally.  I don't think he's so much "looking for excuses" as looking for everyone to be as ambitous and pationate as he is about the club.  He needs that to fuel the part of his personality that saw him take the Managers job and to justify to himself that he made the right choice, and without it the "fear" creeps back in every now and again and nothing will have brought it back more than the result against Celtic.  Thats when he appears to lash out at the fans in the manner he has done in this weekends press.

He needs to learn though that fans are fickle creatures and like any creature, when they are attacked, they will retaliate or run and that his comments could be counter productive.  There are 101 reasons why fans aren't as vocal or sounding as vocal as he would like, not all of them down to the performance on the pitch either.  Personality, Stadium Atmosphere etc etc all play a part.  As some wise dude once said - "Don't bring me problems, bring me answers" - so I would ask CC, what is the answer?  what can the fans AND the club do to improve things?

[dead_ball_specialist]

Bannerman will probably dismiss this as 'archaic class warfare rhetoric', but surely the club shoulder's much of the blame for the lack of atmosphere at home games having priced so many traditional working class fans out of the game? I know half a dozen guys who used to stand in the Howden end week in week out back in the day, even when we were getting humped by East Stirling and Montrose - but almost never go to games at all now because they can't afford it, and it's too much hassle getting to and out of the stadium.

The club have quite simply sold these fans out. The relationship with the fans has become purely a business relationship. Perhaps this is just a reflection of the modern world. As Marx predicted, the march of capitalism into every area of life, melts all that is solid into air and has torn asunder the motley ties that bound communities, substituting in their place, the callous 'cash payment'. (stick that one in your pipe and smoke it Bannerman!)

I'm too young to remember the pre-merger days, but everyone I know who followed Caley and Thistle gives me the impression that those clubs were part of the social fabric of Inverness. ICT certainly is not. And as long as they price so many Invernessians out. (Imagine Mr G's charging £20 for entry, then lamenting how quiet the club had become, and the manager coming out and having a go at Invernessians for not clubbing, it'd be ridiculous) they will never be part of the social fabric.

They've made their bed, and they're lying in it. A half empty stadium in the middle of no-where, frequented by sweetie rustlers and the prawn sandwhich brigade. It could all be so different if they thought outside the narrow constraints of the short term balance sheet and focused on building a local fanbase.

[davieB]

[  My major gripe is the people on this forum that are constantly having a dig at Christie for anything he does wrong, he can't seem to do anything right.  Posters having a dig about the "CC appreciation society"....... as though it is unusual for a fan to get behind the manager of a team :010:

And equally there's some posters on here who can't take ANY criticism of CC, or the team whatsoever. And when someone does either they get accused of the usual 'talking pish' 'not proper supporters' *****. So my major gripe is against those do nothing but come on here complaining about people complaining.

If CC wants to openly criticise the fans...fine. But don't get all surprised if those fans bite back.

We pay his, and the players wages, and consequently have every right to say what we want. If the team play well, they, and CC get all the plaudits, and rightly so. I never see CC coming out and praising the fans in those circumstances.

When we play crap, like Saturday, then what do we do? Gloss over it? Be content we won, even though we were dire? Nope, if we play crap then there's feck all wrong with saying so.

And incidentally, I back the team 100%, and I back CC 100%, and I spend a bloody fortune in that backing.....so I'm certainly not going to shy away from saying he's made some major feck ups, or that the team is capable of playing like my local pub side at times.

[tm4tj]

aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

You can't compare watching East Stirling and Montrose at the Howden End to watching SPL football at the TCS. Of course it's going to be dearer, the value of the product is greater.

And wow, it's really difficult to get to and from the stadium.  What is missing is the passion from the fans, yes those same old Howdenenders, who Caley were probably their wee team, now they are in the same division as their old firm heroes they are truely showing their colours. Thats not fans of ICT, thats just miserable sods who want a cheap Saturday afternoon. SPL prices are not just the fault of the individual clubs. Seems to me that the excuses not to go outway the excuses to turn up and support your team.

Stop going on about the price of games as if it's a bloody surprise, it's the price we pay for success.

[Harry Chibber]

And equally there's some posters on here who can't take ANY criticism of CC, or the team whatsoever. And when someone does either they get accused of the usual 'talking pish' 'not proper supporters' ****e. So my major gripe is against those do nothing but come on here complaining about people complaining.

Yeh, I don't have a go at Christie because I don't think he has really done anything wrong, yes there has been a couple of off decisions but on every occasion you can usually see his reasoning.  More importantly I want him to do well, he is a local lad and he has a real love for this club and yet he has got far, far, far more abuse from his own fans than Brewster or Robertson ever did when both of them turned their back on the club at the drop of a hat.  Whats more IMO he has got us playing better football and improved our dismal home record from last season but none of these things seem to mean anything because next week when a player has a bad game, misses a tackle or maybe we only manage to come away with a draw, it's all going to be Christie's fault and trust me our own fans will let him know!!

[Guest donmac298]

dbs - if you come from Inverness you only have to worry about the entrance fee.  It costs me a fair bit (plus the add-ons) to travel to Inverness but I don't gripe about the price of tickets.  Like the man4thejob says, it's the price we pay for success.

[Mee]

Boys boys!!!

First of all everyone can have an opinion - even if it's not the same as yours! And you also have the choice of whether to share it or not, whether under your own name or a made up name, even if you always talk sh1te, you still have that right!

I'm liking the point about pricing the fans out of the game, I've had to pick and choose which games I've gone to this season due to lack of finances, ideally I would be at every one, home and away. So if the club wanted a noisy big support for the United match then why didn't they drop the prices? Its been proven time and again at other grounds that the attendance goes up as the prices go down, I've seen United twice already this season and their reserves were more deserving of my cash than their first team. I've got an average job for Sneck, and after mortgage, petrol, food and bills etc I can't afford every match. How are new folk going to be attracted along?

[DaveDargo]

Is it just me or are most of the people who are standing up for CC the "wasn't at the game but..." fans who don't have to sit through the shit that gets served up as football on a Saturday.  With the exception of the games against the old firm I can't remember the last time I watched a decent game of football involving ICT (well thats a lie the 3-4 killie game was pretty good.) I don't know if its a sign of the times for Scottish football but quite frankly the standard of football is getting so bad that I could spend a fiver to rent some completely diabolical film (say Spiceworld) and I would be more entertained and have more money in my pocket.  So CC if you don't want the fans to criticise the players or whoever give us something to shout about rather than having us watch Rory McAllister being absolutely VVank for an hour.

[Harry Chibber]

Is it just me or are most of the people who are standing up for CC the "wasn't at the game but..." fans who don't have to sit through the shit that gets served up as football on a Saturday

:012: :012:

Mate I live in Stirling so it is hard to afford to make it to every game but trust me I make it to every match I possibly can.  Thus why I am only really mentioning the thoughts of some people on this forum

[RiG]

:012: :012:

Mate I live in Stirling so it is hard to afford to make it to every game but trust me I make it to every match I possibly can.  Thus why I am only really mentioning the thoughts of some people on this forum

Out of interest, and for no other reason, how much does it cost to get up from Stirling to Sneck by train/bus or however you get up?

[Harry Chibber]

:012: :012:

Mate I live in Stirling so it is hard to afford to make it to every game but trust me I make it to every match I possibly can.  Thus why I am only really mentioning the thoughts of some people on this forum

Out of interest, and for no other reason, how much does it cost to get up from Stirling to Sneck by train/bus or however you get up?

£20 travel + £20 food for the weekend + £30 Drinks on the Sat Night, Drinks before the game + £20 ticket = can be more and can be less, depends

[RiG]

I just wanted travel costs ya diddy!  :015:

Getting through from Aberdeen normally sets me back about £15 for the train, a wee bit more for petrol for the car. Not sure I can afford that in conjunction with a season ticket next season sadly.

[Mee]

:019: :019: :019: Its not easy being a fan  :019: :019: :001:

[Harry Chibber]

:016:

Every season I consider a season ticket RIG but is always just too much for the amount of games I can actually attend.  Bus Apex is about £17, Train about £30 but usually I get a lift from Dave for £20, which is fair enough!

Driving test in a couple of weeks though so that should help :003:

[Kind of Blue]

Charlie would be best advised not to have a go at the fans because it is simply counter-productive and will fall on deaf ears.  In my opinion the fans as well as the players were suffering a cup hangover, and added with the poor display of both teams it was no surprise that there was little atmosphere.  I failed to detect any excessive criticism of the team.  Of course there were some shouts when a move broke down or bad pass was made, but I didn't think there enough for CC to comment on.  If CC was to compare ICT fans with other fans in the SPL he would find that he and the team get a fairly easy time.

[Heilandee]

FFS,eh was only asking,didnae expect that many answers,anyways, for those of ya moaning about the price ,i'll swap ya £25 for a game against Yenited for £15 for an away day at Airdrie.

As for Charlie, I reckon he needs to get a wee bit thicker skin when his managers hats on,John Robertson called us(Dundee us, not ICT us) the worst fans in Scotland and to be honest i can sometimes see his point,last season,some of our fans were on the backs of 17 and 18 year old laddies drafted in from the youth teams to fill slots in the first team,they just dont seem to understand the damage they must do to these young lads confidence,the only real prob i see with ICT support is the lack of noise (positive or negative) ,what can be done about it? i dont have the answer but i dont think slsgging your own support(even if it's deserved ) helps the cause.

Top 6?....still a chance with the fans backing  :022:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Gawd what am I complaining about. Regular round trips from Chorley to follow the ICT. Why should I be critical??  :017: :017:

[DJS]

I have to agree with KoB.  While CC has every right to do what he did, in no way can it be considered prudent.

Imagine the manager of Tesco complaining in the paper that his customers are gurning too much about the quality of Tesco products and he feels they should stop this and instead tell the world how wonderful they are.   It would not go down well.

I am a fan of Caley Thistle but I'm also a customer.  For an employee of any organisation to publicly criticise its customers in this way is not acceptable.  In many organistaions it would be a disciplinary offence.  Apart from the last few minutes, what we were treated to on Saturday was an apology for a game of football.  I don't believe fans of any club would get excited about it.

Despite this, I am happy that he is the right man for the job but I hope he considers carefully what he say to the media about the people whose money pays his wages.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

So I reckon that is 96% for and 4% against. Thank yas all fer yer support.  :001:

[Alex MacLeod]

Dont know what went on cos I was in Bridge end on sat but it was suggested to me later on that day that some abusive comments may have been made from around the tunnel area. Hearsay mind.

[clacher_holiday2]

"you don't realise that the players aren't there for your entertainment, they are not hired monkeys but players playing for the club and are making history for a team that will be about long after you or me are 6 feet under. "

bet you must have felt well hard typing that from behind your computer screen :012: