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The season ahead

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20 minutes ago, Donald1973 said:

Were the actual season ticket cards handed out at time of purchase? I ask because when I went in last week, the card machine wasn't working and they were gonna put through the details afterwards and send the cards out but I haven't received anything yet so I wasn't sure if they were actually yet available 

Do you already have a card? if so you just keep using the same one AFAIK. If you haven't had a season ticket since the move to the smart cards you should get one sent out in due course I would imagine.

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Ah OK, I did get the card the previous year but didn't renew last year so they maybe assumed I still would have had them... Which I'm not sure if I did keep them, thanks 

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They updated my card when I renewed so if they did not give you a card, I’d give them a call to check it is being posted out. 

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I am saddened but, given their track record, not shocked that the SFA have brought disciplinary action against Hearts and Partick for bringing court action. 

The matter has been referred to independent arbitration which is much better facilitated with at least some element of goodwill on each side.

This action and the timing of it is simply wrong headed, ill advised and vindictive.

We are unfortunately used to idiotic actions on the part of our football authorities but the idiot or idiots responsible for this action at this time should simply resign. Not good enough. The clubs, the players and  most importantly, the fans need and deserve better.

 

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Is it idiotic to expect that rules are complied with?  Hearts and Partick clearly have good reason to feel aggrieved with the SPFL and I have huge sympathy with their plight, but the SFA Rules of Association make it pretty clear that their arbitration process is the appropriate course of action in such cases.  The Court of Session made it clear to Hearts and Partick that that was the case. We now have the situation that with the Premiership season due to start in just over 2 weeks time we have yet to start an arbitration process which should have happened a few weeks ago and which could potentially reinstate Hearts into the Premiership.  The potential ramifications of that are obvious.

Had Hearts and Partick gone to arbitration in the first place, then we could have had a definitive position by now.  My advice to Hearts and Partick is to accept whatever the disciplinary process throws up and get yourselves new lawyers.

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46 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Is it idiotic to expect that rules are complied with?  Hearts and Partick clearly have good reason to feel aggrieved with the SPFL and I have huge sympathy with their plight, but the SFA Rules of Association make it pretty clear that their arbitration process is the appropriate course of action in such cases.  The Court of Session made it clear to Hearts and Partick that that was the case. We now have the situation that with the Premiership season due to start in just over 2 weeks time we have yet to start an arbitration process which should have happened a few weeks ago and which could potentially reinstate Hearts into the Premiership.  The potential ramifications of that are obvious.

Had Hearts and Partick gone to arbitration in the first place, then we could have had a definitive position by now.  My advice to Hearts and Partick is to accept whatever the disciplinary process throws up and get yourselves new lawyers.

I am on record here as saying that the court action was ill advised and would fail. I would not necessarily blame the lawyers as I am reasonably sure that they would have given similar advice and would have been acting on the specific instructions of the clubs.

That does not alter my view that, with the need to bring the Scottish football community back together rather than drive it further apart, the jobsworth actions of the SFA is equally ill considered and even more badly timed.

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I'm not one for legalities etc but one of the Hearts and Partick motions in court was for documents and records to be shared. They won this motion and now lawyers at the arbitration will have these along with statements from key players before making a perhaps more informed decision. I'm not sure if they could have got this access by going straight to SFA arbitration. 

I think lord Clark stated that the 2 clubs shouldn't be punished for bringing court action. 

To bring a notice of complaint before the case is concluded is dangerous. If hearts or partick win in any sense at all, they could argue the court session was vital to that and therefore a necessary step.

If hearts/partick lose then fair enough, they have wasted time and brought the league in disrepute or whatever it will be called. But just hold off with the punishment until we have the full story. 

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Like you, I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of legal processes, but it seemed to me that Lord Clark recognised that Hearts and Partick have been shabbily treated, yet felt he had no option but to rule that they were bypassing due process and the issue must go to arbitration.  Had they done so, then presumably part of the preliminary process would have been to ask the SFA to request the various documents and records to be shared.  Their argument would be that without such sharing, it would be impossible for the arbitration panel to determine whether the SPFL's actions had been appropriate or not.  If the SFA refused to ask the SPFL for the documents or the SPFL refused to disclose them, then going to the Courts would be fair enough because they would have evidence that the arbitration process would not give them a fair hearing.  

I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that if due process had been followed, the relevant documents would not have been released.  Nor can I recall seeing a statement from either of the clubs saying why they were by-passing the arbitration process.  But having fallen out with the SPFL it does seem rather careless to then fall foul of the SFA as well.  I'm not sure the SFA bringing a notice of complaint before the arbitration is dangerous.  From their perspective, two clubs have acted in breech of the articles of association and therefore they are required under their rules to issue a notice of complaint.  I suspect that SFA rules require issues to be dealt with within a specified timeframe, but waiting until the arbitration process was over might have left them open to accusations that the result of the arbitration influenced the decision to issue a notice of complaint.  At least this way it is a straightforward case of the clubs having broken the rules and being subject to a disciplinary process as a result.  Sure, as Kingsmills suggests there may well be a jobsworth mentality within the SFA, but if Hearts and Partick had followed the appropriate route in the first place, there would have been no question of a notice of complaint.

 

 

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It's all very depressing and, along with the appeal from Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove for help with legal funding to support their battle against the possibility of losing out on promotion, it drags the reputation of Scottish football further into the mire.

This could all have been so easily avoided if the clubs had just done the sensible thing and voted for the 14-10-10-10 setup in the first place!

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9 minutes ago, CaleyCanary said:

It's all very depressing and, along with the appeal from Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove for help with legal funding to support their battle against the possibility of losing out on promotion, it drags the reputation of Scottish football further into the mire.

This could all have been so easily avoided if the clubs had just done the sensible thing and voted for the 14-10-10-10 setup in the first place!

Absolutely it was the obvious and sensible solution which would have Prejudiced no one.

None of the clubs have, thus far, given any plausible or convincing explanation of why they voted against it.

If it had been voted through the wrangling would be over, no club would have been relegated, a number  including our own, promoted on the merits of their achievements last season and we could all now be looking forward to the new season with a far greater degree of certainty.

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1 hour ago, Kingsmills said:

Absolutely it was the obvious and sensible solution which would have Prejudiced no one.

None of the clubs have, thus far, given any plausible or convincing explanation of why they voted against it.

If it had been voted through the wrangling would be over, no club would have been relegated, a number  including our own, promoted on the merits of their achievements last season and we could all now be looking forward to the new season with a far greater degree of certainty.

Agreed.  It seems that if all the clubs who have at some stage said that this was the sensible option had actually voted for it, everyone would now  either be happy or at least not feeling too hard done by.  Not forgetting Brora and Kelty who have been utterly shafted with no say at all over the matter.

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Scottish football and the governing bodies only have themselves to blame. Their selfish and self centred mentality has caused this. Hearts and Partick probably didn't have faith in the arbitraions process and to be fair look at the SFA decision for our player who got the red card in semi final of the challenge cup. Their precedent doesn't promote confidence plus the judge did not rule out a return to the court of session of the case Merley it starts with arbitration. Plus hearts and Partick cam also appeal to the CAS etc so this is far from over and the spfl and sfa pushing ahead with starting the season is their own fault before finding out the result of this case. Also why haven't they convened the panel yet?

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5 hours ago, CaleyCanary said:

It's all very depressing and, along with the appeal from Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove for help with legal funding to support their battle against the possibility of losing out on promotion, it drags the reputation of Scottish football further into the mire.

This could all have been so easily avoided if the clubs had just done the sensible thing and voted for the 14-10-10-10 setup in the first place!

I listened to yesterday's Sportsound where Donald Findlay and Cameron Lauchlan were on and they kept doing the same old of course we feel sorry and yes we want reconstruction but it was too late to do for this season. They never actually explain why though just there isn't the time but they would like to create a larger championship even if the Prem doesn't change to get rid of 4 times a season. Frankly if Hearts and Partick win then the only team i have real sympathy with Cove who did vote to end all this where the other two and many others gave this crap we feel sorry for them but not actively helping to secure their position.

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The argument used against 14,10,10,10 was the top league and logistics. Split would have been earlier, either 6/8 or 8/6 split unfair on teams who miss out on split, meaningless games etc. Roy boldly claimed his season ticket holders wouldn't pay if they didn't know who they would be watching for half a season (surely County fans pay to see county, not the opposition). All pretty minor things when you look at the unfairness on relegations when you still have a game in hand to jump the team above.

They also argued that changing the league back would be detrimental to other teams(no reason why it had to go back to 12). Basically minor inconvenience for some was too much and they would rather sit and let the few suffer. 

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7 hours ago, gingerjaggy said:

yes we want reconstruction but it was too late to do for this season.

What a load of bollocks, was brought up almost immediately after postponement and eventual abandonment, and this was when, March. Saying "ooh, sorry, you're too late to lodge a reconstruction bid" is a massive middle finger to all those within (and outwith) the pyramid, how is suggesting it 5 months from the due start of the following season "too late"? Hardly a lot of work to put in when sending out a letter saying "FYI, you're shifting up a league" and getting other bits and bobs sorted. Not surprised that this is the reason why everyone thinks those in charge are as corrupt af.

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6 hours ago, WYNESS101 said:

Fixtures are out tomorrow at 2pm

Thank you. Another small step on the road to some semblance of normality.

It will be good to be able to start talking about the game again instead of all the off field politics surrounding it.

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2 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

Thank you. Another small step on the road to some semblance of normality.

It will be good to be able to start talking about the game again instead of all the off field politics surrounding it.

Agreed but I just hope the league does start as planned and we are able to safely attend matches. 

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41 minutes ago, Robert said:

Agreed but I just hope the league does start as planned and we are able to safely attend matches. 

That would be great even if it means moving seats for social distancing there is plenty room in the North Stand and it will be great to get the crack again although I am not to optimistic at present.

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I'm not optimistic.  There are several European countries which have eased lockdown measures to some extent and are now seeing a worrying rise in the number of cases.  If lockdown measures are eased too much, it is clear to see what is going to happen. This virus is not going away any time soon.  The Scottish government have taken a cautious approach and unless there is a radical change of direction, large scale gatherings are not going to be permitted for some time.  When things do open up a bit more I expect that it will be with reduced capacities.  

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14 hours ago, Robert said:

Agreed but I just hope the league does start as planned and we are able to safely attend matches. 

The league will almost certainly start as planned. Whether there will be fans in attendance is probably about 50/50 at the moment I would suggest.

I think that there may be some sort of compromise initially allowing home fans only with a maximum attendance, to begin with of perhaps 1,200 to 1,500 utilising the South Stand for home fans as well as the wee West Stand.

All is dependent on the level of virus circulating remaining at or below the current level.

I would also anticipate a ban on singing or chanting so business as usual in the Main Stand 😁

Edited by Kingsmills

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A lot depends on how the players testing goes, as and when it starts for the wee divisions.

Any delays in fan reintroduction puts even more strain on those clubs in the most perilous financial state - which is why there was talk of some clubs not taking part at all this season. 

A crucial period coming up with the end of holidays and super spreaders going back to school.

It'll be a very interesting pre-season, that's the only definite so far.

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56 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

The league will almost certainly start as planned. Whether there will be fans in attendance is probably about 50/50 at the moment I would suggest.

I think that there may be some sort of compromise initially allowing home fans only with a maximum attendance, to begin with of perhaps 1,200 to 1,500 utilising the South Stand for home fans as well as the wee West Stand.

All is dependent on the level of virus circulating remaining at or below the current level.

I would also anticipate a ban on singing or chanting so business as usual in the Main Stand 😁

No sharing sweeties either 😁

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