Investment

[bigterrybutcher]

First time poster guys - just seeing what's already out there in terms of the fans putting additional resources into the club . Having read through the forum a lot of people would be willing to buy season tickets and merchandise which is great . Unfortunately that's not going to be enough to keep the vultures at bay so just seeing if there are any fans initiatives already on the go which would put additional cash into the club . Much like what Hearts done in there time of need and Rangers with there fund . Just trying to think of a way to help .

[Scotty]

The Stronger Together initiative from the Supporter's Trust is the one that is out there currently. 

Details: https://www.ictsupporterstrust.org/stronger-together

Donate: https://www.ictsupporterstrust.org/ictst-sharesave

 

 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

1 hour ago, bigterrybutcher said:

First time poster guys - just seeing what's already out there in terms of the fans putting additional resources into the club . Having read through the forum a lot of people would be willing to buy season tickets and merchandise which is great . Unfortunately that's not going to be enough to keep the vultures at bay so just seeing if there are any fans initiatives already on the go which would put additional cash into the club . Much like what Hearts done in there time of need and Rangers with there fund . Just trying to think of a way to help .

I suspect that if the club survives and we get new club management, then a financial appeal to the supporters will be high on their agenda.

I wouldn't put anything directly into the club itself until things become clearer.  It might just go into paying off creditors.   The Supporters' Trust isn't the club.

Edited June 6 by snorbens_caleyman

[bigterrybutcher]

I agree the supporters club isn't the club that's what I was meaning the foundation of hearts put money directly into the club via there initiative and rangers fans fighting fund did the same , raised money and it went directly into the club. Hearts one was more successful in terms of how it runs .. fans pay a some of money each month which went to the foundation directly into the club cash flow . Something like this needs to happen to allow the club to continue. 

[Robert]

57 minutes ago, bigterrybutcher said:

First time poster guys - just seeing what's already out there in terms of the fans putting additional resources into the club . Having read through the forum a lot of people would be willing to buy season tickets and merchandise which is great . Unfortunately that's not going to be enough to keep the vultures at bay so just seeing if there are any fans initiatives already on the go which would put additional cash into the club . Much like what Hearts done in there time of need and Rangers with there fund . Just trying to think of a way to help .

As a start, have a look at the Stronger Together initiative the Supporters Trust launched a couple of months ago. It’s designed to increase fan involvement in the club through raising money to buy shares.

More here:

https://caleythistleonline.com/topic/36186-stronger-together-how-to-contribute/

That allows one off or regular contributions and will build over time.

The Supporters Trust is independent if the club, and has made it clear it will only invest when it feels the time is right.

In the immediate term, the club really needs one of the potential investors referred to in yesterday’s release to chip in.

It is all about cash flow for the next few months, taking enough in to pay out what needs paid, so every season ticket will help, along with buying merchandise, sponsorship etc.

 

Edited June 6 by Robert

[+snorbens_caleyman]

44 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

I suspect that if the club survives and we get new club management, then a financial appeal to the supporters will be high on their agenda.

I wouldn't put anything directly into the club itself until things become clearer.  It might just go into paying off creditors.   The Supporters' Trust isn't the club.

Just for clarification, when I said that "The Supporters' Trust isn't the club.", I meant that it was safe to contribute to them without the possibility of your contribution disappearing into a creditor's pocket!

[bigterrybutcher]

I think the question needs asked to the club .. what keeps the wolf away from the door and then what do we need from folk going forward.. outside of what's expected from ST and Merch. I just think if there is a business model which is sustainable then the fans need to be part of it and the hearts set up sounds just the way forward of ensuring fans have a voice and the board has additional money . 

There is no Roy Mcgregor here , the fans have called for Morrison Gardiner to go Kelty carry on to stop and Robbo and Dodds to go the fans have won that war - the same fans need to dig deep if they want a club to support .

[Scotty]

21 minutes ago, bigterrybutcher said:

I think the question needs asked to the club .. what keeps the wolf away from the door and then what do we need from folk going forward.. outside of what's expected from ST and Merch. I just think if there is a business model which is sustainable then the fans need to be part of it and the hearts set up sounds just the way forward of ensuring fans have a voice and the board has additional money . 

There is no Roy Mcgregor here , the fans have called for Morrison Gardiner to go Kelty carry on to stop and Robbo and Dodds to go the fans have won that war - the same fans need to dig deep if they want a club to support .

Those fans likely will dig deep but the devil will be in the detail. There is currently no detail.

 

EDIT TO ADD: 

If I resigned at work, I would be walked out immediately regardless of notice period as I have access to confidential business info and full system access to many areas where I could do damage if I chose to. It's not that I would do that, it's the risk that I could do that which would have my bosses twitchy. Similarly, if sacked, the same would apply, and in both cases, keycards, computers or other company property would be returned and my computer access and permissions would be gone by the end of day at the latest. Any outstanding salary owed, or severance would be paid while on 'Gardinering leave'  

To say he is still there "tying up loose ends" begs the question of why? He is the focal point of fans' ire, and for good reason. He IS the loose end in most fans' eyes. What possible role could he be doing that is for the benefit of ICT when almost everything else we have seen has been farcical or far-fetched. If there is a valid reason, then fair enough - communicate that - I am sure there are some things needed before the season starts and perhaps he does need to keep those particular plates spinning ... but in all honesty, don't expect a penny from most fans when those same fans told you they would not put a penny in while he is still there.  

[+snorbens_caleyman]

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If I resigned at work, I would be walked out immediately regardless of notice period

This.  I worked in information security for many years, and was often asked "What's our biggest risk?".  Answer was always "Your staff.  Especially those who are disgruntled.".

[bigterrybutcher]

I think by the time he is "working his notice" that tells u that he isn't going anywhere anytime soon . I think there are bigger fish to fry in terms of saving the club . 

[Scotty]

3 minutes ago, bigterrybutcher said:

I think by the time he is "working his notice" that tells u that he isn't going anywhere anytime soon . I think there are bigger fish to fry in terms of saving the club . 

Well, that's just shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic then isn't it. The two main things voiced recently were the Kelty scheme had to be punted and so did the CEO. If he is still there in any capacity then nothing has changed on that front. He is the bigger fish to fry. The club cannot move forward with his hand on the rudder. 

If there is a valid purpose for him actually working his notice then perhaps the board can start the new era of communication by explaining it.  Presumably we still have a club secretary, whose attention to detail got us back into the cup last year, so she can handle any league paperwork needed. We also hopefully still have other competent staff who can continue with or take on some of the things he did. I am guessing in many cases they may outperform him.  

[+DoofersDad]

No company secretary since April last year, Scotty.

[bigterrybutcher]

I just wonder if his signature is required to sign the accounts off ? Who knows the point I am trying to make is the time is fast approaching where the fans need to make there play as there may not be a club very shortly

[robbo1985]

It would probably be wise to get season tickets on sale as soon as possible so that those who don’t want to boycott can purchase or at least save towards the cost of these.  We seem to be particularly slow on this front in comparison to other league clubs.  Cash is clearly an issue so surely all potential income streams (however minor) should be accelerated.

 

Edited June 6 by robbo1985

[Huisdean]

I think there needs to be some realism here. The fans have demanded, and got what they wanted. Gardiner is leaving and some are unhappy that he is working his  notice. Well he either works his notice or we pay him off so either way it's a cost.

As I said in another post, fans now need to start putting there money where their mouth is, in buying season tickets etc. Club need to get these season tickets on sale ASAP to generate some revenue. Some fans won't of course until everything is resolved to their satisfaction but by then it maybe too late. 

I also have a nagging doubt that all the anger generated by fans over the issues will actually be transferred into revenue for the club.

[bigterrybutcher]

Fully agree - the fans got what they wanted , the time is now to put the £ in. There is a difference however between kicking a can down the road and actually investing in the club - season ticket sales and club receiving % of merchandise sales is great BUT that doesn't keep the wolf from the door, that kicks the can down the road or buys some time - there needs sustained investment in the club - that in my opinion needs to come from the supporters in addition to the board . If there was a vehicle for fans to put £ into the club on a monthly basis the exact same process which the hearts supporters do how many of us sign up ? Very quick sums will tell you that if 1000 supporters put 15 quid a month into the club it generates 180k across the year , it needs discussed in my opinion to help the club move forward . 

[Robert]

That’s exactly the role Stronger Together is designed to fulfil, with the safeguard that the Supporters Trust only buy shares (ie put money in) if they are happy with how the club is being run.

[bigterrybutcher]

4 minutes ago, Robert said:

That’s exactly the role Stronger Together is designed to fulfil, with the safeguard that the Supporters Trust only buy shares (ie put money in) if they are happy with how the club is being run.

That's great to hear - what does the supporters trust want the club to be run like ? There will always be a difference of opinion on who is running what within a football club I understand that however so the trust can't dictate who sits on the board and who gets what positions on the basis of putting money into the club . There needs to be clarity from both the club on what it's needs and then the supporters trust needs to come out and say yip we support that and this is how you ( fans) can do it . I don't pretend to be a business man or any great esteem but for the love of the wee man are we not all better ensuring the clubs a float then fight the battle of who's in what position. This whole get him gone and him gone is all good and well ... now the **** has hit the fan ... what now . Clarity required

[STFU]

2 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

No company secretary since April last year, Scotty.

Club Secretary and Company Secretary are separate roles.  The former traditionally deals with all processes and paperwork to do with football related matters.

[STFU]

The club will need £300k+ immediately to pay creditors.  They'll also need sufficient funds to cover operational costs/shortfalls and a high likelihood that we could be due Kelty.  There's then any money directors have put in that they may want back in order to relinquish control.

We've been led to believe Ross Morrison has put in £1.5 million but have no idea how much others have put in.

That's at least £2 million to wipe the slate clean but it's likely be a good deal more than that.

With the club facing the very real possibility of administration and no guarantee anyone will bail it out from that then adding 1500 creditors to the list by selling season tickets they may not be able to honour would be irresponsible.

[+MrCaleyjag]

@bigterrybutcher first of all welcome. 

Must have been some task reading through everything posted over the last two weeks in such a short space of time and gauging fellow fans thoughts.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you feel in actual £s, as you put it, do you feel is a reasonable amount for each fan to put in?

I only ask as most fans probably can't afford the sums needed and if buying a season ticket and say a first team strip isn't enough, where does it stop? If I'm buying both the above then I reckon the £350-£450 it would cost is quite an undertake for a normal fan. I for one could afford it, if I wanted to, but there's an awful lot that would feel it's a lot and couldn't.

My point being, that every extra £ put into the club by any fan, is a £ that the club wouldn't already have and is very welcomed. Everything counts.

Fans are well entitled to voice their opinion and speak out, it doesn't mean it signs them into a contract to spend money. Everyone is well within their right to step back and wait to see what happens in the very near future before spending anything especially having seen what the club has done in the past with the money fans have put into the club in one form or other.

[Scotty]

3 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

No company secretary since April last year, Scotty.

I meant club secretary for any paperwork relating to registrations or other items ahead of the new season. 

 

1 hour ago, bigterrybutcher said:

If there was a vehicle for fans to put £ into the club on a monthly basis the exact same process which the hearts supporters do how many of us sign up ? Very quick sums will tell you that if 1000 supporters put 15 quid a month into the club it generates 180k across the year , it needs discussed in my opinion to help the club move forward . 

The problem with that idea - which I don't disagree with - is safeguarding that monies. If fans put £180K into the club as per your math above, then they will want that to be used responsibly to get us out of the current mess. Yes, it may be used to pay down debt or to keep the lights on in some fashion, but with the CEOs feet still under the desk, most will be less than confident that any funds put in will be used to best effect, and for the good and benefit of the club. There has been no transparency for years and no reason to think there will be until he is gone, and - it has to be said - no way to know if we go from frying pan to fire or to a better place. 

 

1 hour ago, Robert said:

That’s exactly the role Stronger Together is designed to fulfil, with the safeguard that the Supporters Trust only buy shares (ie put money in) if they are happy with how the club is being run.

1 hour ago, bigterrybutcher said:

That's great to hear - what does the supporters trust want the club to be run like ? There will always be a difference of opinion on who is running what within a football club I understand that however so the trust can't dictate who sits on the board and who gets what positions on the basis of putting money into the club . There needs to be clarity from both the club on what it's needs and then the supporters trust needs to come out and say yip we support that and this is how you ( fans) can do it . I don't pretend to be a business man or any great esteem but for the love of the wee man are we not all better ensuring the clubs a float then fight the battle of who's in what position. This whole get him gone and him gone is all good and well ... now the **** has hit the fan ... what now . Clarity required

I would hope that the Trust, as a supporter's society, with a now fairly large membership, would democratically follow the wishes of the majority of its membership. I don't hold any position on the Trust other than member, but as far as I know, the whole reason this Sharesave plan is being run this way currently is because the fans don't like the way things were being run and wanted change. If things are running better, and there is transparency and engagement then by definition things will be a lot better. We will never all agree, but it would hopefully not get quite as low as the baseline is today. Perhaps in future - if things are or appear to be more sustainable - a direct pay scheme may work.   

 

[+DoofersDad]

12 hours ago, bigterrybutcher said:

but for the love of the wee man are we not all better ensuring the clubs a float then fight the battle of who's in what position. This whole get him gone and him gone is all good and well ... now the **** has hit the fan ... what now . Clarity required

Keeping the club afloat is exactly what the fans and the Supporters Trust is trying to do.  It wasn't a case of administration or Kelty, it was a case of which of the 2 alternatives was less damaging for the club.  Whilst the Kelty deal was presented as a way of avoiding administration, the club didn't provide a shred of evidence to demonstrate that it would.  Fans presented plenty of reasons why it wouldn't.  Kelty was Gardiner's plan and it is he who threw the **** at the fan (and the fans!).  The fans are trying to help clean up the mess.  The club desperately  needs more money and Gardiner has alienated so many of the very people who just might provide it.  They are not wanting to pump money into the club if it is simply going to be thrown at the latest ill thought through, harebrained scheme which ends up damaging rather than benefitting the club.  The fans and the Supporters Trust are not fighting a battle of who's in what position, they are simply urging the club to make sure the biggest barrier to future investment in the club is removed as soon as possible.  

Gardiner has never wanted fan engagement.  From the beginning, the Board were duped into thinking that with his background at much bigger clubs, Gardiner would have the ideas and experience to make us an established premiership club.  They meekly went along with his ideas, including ignoring the Supporters Trust.  The Board are culpable here, but the fans are being pragmatic enough not to be calling for the entire Board to go.  Moving forward must  include having a democratically elected representative from the Supporters Trust on the Board.  Had we had a fans' representative on the Board when Gardiner was appointed, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

 

[Achfary]

At the 2017 AGM, fans were told that the transformation of ICTFC into a community club would be done by 2019/2020 and that the club would live within its means, be transparent and involve the supporter’s trust... 

When the season ticket call comes out, it will almost certainly not come alone - there will be an emotive plea to unite and 'get behind the club' attached to it, and all the usual stuff. The only difference is that it will be an administrator from a solicitor's behind it.

That is the fan's core investment. It has brought millions of pounds into the club. The fans are the best investor a club has!  They don't ask for, or get, a floating charge. "Ah, but they get entertainment!" -  in an age of YouTube and PPV TV with the best football products available from anywhere in the globe, live, into smartphones...being from "Inverness" is doing a lot of heavy lifting now for this investment, especially when under Rae and Morrison the fan base has been seen as something to be endured.

Genuinely opening up the club more to the supporters trust -as was promised - would create more revenue.  Sadly, because the last two Chairmen have reneged on the 2017 AGM, and wasted hundreds of thousands of their, but also the fans', investment (which they currently expect back-no recourse for the fans), supporters will yet again have to set aside being lied to, and blindly put money in to retrieve the situation.

That has to be recognised in the model that goes forward - substantive fan representation. As Doofer's Dad says, it's now a pre-requisite for the club to move forward constructively.  

And I believe it would lead to a lot more investment.

[dougiedanger]

When people say 'investment' in a football club, what that really means is some rich person throwing a part of their fortune at the club, never to see it again.

Investment is not the word, more like donation.