Player Behaviour

[Gabby]

My point exactly Vinnie!!!

This is not an "Official Site"

As long as we stay within the Libel/Defamation laws we are fine.

There is no problem in discussing what we think should happen IF a player was to be caught by the police to be in possession of illegal drugs.

It is no different to discussing what the club should do with a player that is not performing.

On the other issue 4th Stand I am very happy with Sir Beefy being knighted.  He is considered an honourary Aussie (He did play Sheffield Shield for Queensland)  He played the game like an Aussie and was loved for it!

[PullMyFinger]

My point exactly Vinnie!!!

This is not an "Official Site"

As long as we stay within the Libel/Defamation laws we are fine.

There is no problem in discussing what we think should happen IF a player was to be caught by the police to be in possession of illegal drugs.

It is no different to discussing what the club should do with a player that is not performing.

On the other issue 4th Stand I am very happy with Sir Beefy being knighted.  He is considered an honourary Aussie (He did play Sheffield Shield for Queensland)  He played the game like an Aussie and was loved for it!

The point is that the events are ''alleged'' and as there has been no comment from the police or the club (hereinafter referred to as facts) any discussion here does open the website up to libel or slander lawsuits. (Allegedly). What the ****, eh? Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

btw Just how do you play like an Aussie? The mind boggles.

[Mee]

Drugs are going to be used and abused in society whether they are legal or not and personally I think that someone who wants to take drugs should be able to take them!!! The government have a responsibility here to commission research into various types of drugs and their long term effects and to offer sensible guidance to those who want to take them. They should also be responsible for checking the quality and purity of drugs so people don't end up taking too much by mistake or taking something totally unexpected! And then maybe the black market in drug dealing will cease and the government can make a fortune from VAT on drug sales (through chemists or off licenses, whatever). Also to free up space in prisons for violent offenders and those folk who really should be locked up.  Far more people die from alcohol related causes than from illegal drug taking!!! As a society we need to drag ourselves into the 21st century here and stop criminalising whole generations of folk who just want to have a good time without harming anyone else.

And with that in mind, would there really have been such a stushie if a player had been caught steaming drunk out on the town at the start of their summer hols? I think not.  :017:

[Guest Big_Vinnie]

The facts of the matter are drinks are not illegal.

Where do most of these violent offenders come from? Druggies looking for their next hit? Most organised crimes are drug related.

The thousands of people out there who have a joint or other things now & again feed these drug lords just as much as the addicts do.

Should not be tolorated full stop. I'm 31 & very proud of the fact that I've never taken any illegal drugs.

[PullMyFinger]

Try telling that to Jamie Langfield. :017:

[Mee]

The facts of the matter are drinks are not illegal.

Where do most of these violent offenders come from? Druggies looking for their next hit? Most organised crimes are drug related.

The thousands of people out there who have a joint or other things now & again feed these drug lords just as much as the addicts do.

Should not be tolorated full stop. I'm 31 & very proud of the fact that I've never taken any illegal drugs.

So you have absolutely no personal experience of the issue and are basically just talking hot air? nice one.  :017:

Drugs haven't always been illegal, but the alcohol "barons" put pressure on the government to make them illegal to enhance their profits. Don't you think that if drugs were legalised then the black market for them would disappear along with the organised crime? People who take drugs are forced to give their money to the drug lords as there is nowhere else to get them, and this is negligence on the governments part.

I have NEVER known anyone on drugs to commit a violent offence but Ive been around plenty of p1ssed up erseholes who seem to want to cause a fight at the slightest provocation. I also think that if the Daft Punk crowd at Rockness had been p1ssheads there would have been a riot! But no! All the folk waiting and waiting turned to the folk next to them for a chat and to make new friends. 70 000 people there and only 7 arrests, only one (as far as I know) for violence, and that was some p1sshead from Glasgow picking on a local boy. Ban alcohol!!!! Its obviously dangerous and leads to far more crimes and deaths than drugs ever will.

[Harry Chibber]

The facts of the matter are drinks are not illegal.

Where do most of these violent offenders come from? Druggies looking for their next hit? Most organised crimes are drug related.

The thousands of people out there who have a joint or other things now & again feed these drug lords just as much as the addicts do.

Should not be tolorated full stop. I'm 31 & very proud of the fact that I've never taken any illegal drugs.

How can you possibly offer a balanced arguement if you haven't seen the other side of the spectrum?

edited to say, I'm not pro drugs but think there are other ways to deal with this rather than banning him for life as some people have suggested.

[crownjaggie]

If taken to court and proven by the authorities then the club must take firm action which will deter others from sampling illicit substances.  Players are definately role models.  Wholeheartedly support Gordon Smiths plans for random testing of all players in the Scottish game.  

Rio Ferdinands punishment several years ago for "avoiding random testing" should have been 2 years as proscribed not 3 months of the summer plus the start of the season.  

Why have so many professional cyclists been caught over the years?  Because they are tested more often than all other sports put together.  

Prepare for a lot of suspensions if Gordon Smiths plan comes to fruition because the will be a considerable number of "overpaid superstars" getting caught.  

[CaleyD]

Let me try and expand on the websites position a little.

- When the subject was first posted on here it was nothing more than a rumour.

- The allegations that an Inverness Player has been caught in possession of a substance which is still to be analysed by the police appear to be the only facts which have been confirmed by any official source (police, club or individual involved).

As such the websites stance has moved from one which banned all talk of the subject to one which is allowing discussion surrounding the facts as we know them to be at present - this position will change as more information is confirmed.

What we cannot allow at the moment is any comment relating to people's opinions on whether the player is guilty, innocent or otherwise.  We also have to be very careful as what we allow to be portrayed as "facts" - the reason for this is two-fold.  Firstly anyone who believes they have any facts should contact the police, not post it on a public forum and secondly if something is posted as "fact" then you (and this site) may be asked to provide evidence to support that "fact" in a court of law should the case go to trial.  We would be legally bound to provide the authorities with all details we hold regarding any person posting "facts".

Now, should anything that is posted as a fact turn out to be false then the individual who posted it could find themselves facing charges in connection to that and defamation of character.  Should you post an opinion saying the person is guilty and they are later found to be innocent you could again face charges of defamation of character.

Although each individual is ultimately responsible for what they post, this site has a duty of care to ensure things are not allowed to get out of hand.  We also have a legal responsibility to prevent any discussion from turning into an online trial.

With regards to what has been posted on other forums, that is their lookout - the only thing we are concerned about is this website, it's users and our own butts.  With regards to what is in the Newspapers, they will find themselves in the exact same position as anyone else with regards to providing evidence to support any allegations they make or facts they print.

So, in short - you can discuss the subject, you can discuss the allegations which have been made in the press and you can discuss the facts as they are known to be.  What cannot be discussed is anything regarding the guilt or innocence of the player or any so-called facts - e.g "My mate said that he saw.....etc" - The only facts we will allow to be discussed are those which have been confirmed by an official source.

Being an official or an unofficial site has nothing to do with our stance.  Being unofficial does not remove the need for us to comply with the law and take a sensible approach to such discussions.

You may think it's harsh, but that's just the way it is.  Our stance will not change - although the discussion will evolve within the confines of the boundaries laid out above as more official information comes to light.  You are free to moan and complain about it all you like, but can we ask that you do so via e.mail or Private Message to avoid cluttering up the forum.

[clacher_holiday2]

kate moss is a slapper, she takes it up the a##e

when shes shooting up, she thinks of ritchie hart

:017:

bit of a variation on the old posh spice one from yesteryear

[CaleyD]

I thought that this site was unofficial :024:

I am referring to EWS's first post

This website is no longer run as the clubs official website.

[PullMyFinger]

quote author=Big_Vinnie

The facts of the matter are drinks are not illegal.

Actually you are wrong, take a walk around the residential areas of any town/city/village in this country and you will be confronted by hordes of underage drinkers. Their bodies are still developing and the drug (yes alcohol is a drug) makes them behave in a very anti-social manner.Vandalism, violence, underage sex, etc.

Where do most of these violent offenders come from? Druggies looking for their next hit? Most organised crimes are drug related.

Can you provide some evidence here please. My experience is that those on drugs are too spaced out to care about committing crimes. Drunks however can regularly be seen assisting their fellow humans through shop windows, etc.

The thousands of people out there who have a joint or other things now & again feed these drug lords just as much as the addicts do.

True, but if there was a complete de-criminalisation of drugs such as they have in Amsterdam, the police could properly 'police' the issue and they could smoke in coffee shops, D'oh  :029:

Should not be tolorated full stop. I'm 31 & very proud of the fact that I've never taken any illegal drugs.

Can your parents say the same? The culture around your conception was very much 'hip'.

Rant over, time to crack open the cap'n morgans.

[Alex MacLeod]

I agree wholeheartedly that proffessional sportsmen and women have a duty not to be involved in the use or misuse of illegal substances. However, the player in question has not been charged with, or convicted of, such abuse. The press have speculated.

Reproduced here is report from Scottish Television

Caley launch inquiry

Inverness Caledonian Thistle have launched an internal inquiry after a player was detained by police over a suspected drugs offence.

The first-team player was quizzed by officers over possession of an illegal substance at the Rock Ness music festival, which took place on the banks of the loch last weekend.

A club spokesman said: "We have been made aware of an alleged incident involving one of our players relating to a recreational drug at a music event. We are making our own enquiries and considering our response."

He added: "We will need to discuss the matter with the player before finalising our position.

"We will make no further comment until after we have completed our assessment."

Northern Constabulary declined to comment on the matter but it is understood the player was spoken to after a substance was recovered.

The player was not arrested and has not been charged but it is understood the force will analyse the substance.

But it could take months before the police probe determines whether the player will be charged and Caley Thistle are making their own enquiries in the meantime.

Please note Northern Constabulary have made no comment and everything in the above report is allegation and speculation. It does not take months to analyse any substance, and it could well come out that the alledged substance was nothing more than Askit powder, so until proved otherwise, beyond any reasonable doubt, the player concerned is innocent of any wrong doing. Please leave it at that for the time being.

[Guest CaleyJaggy]

In regards to an ICT policy on anyone with a problem like this, this is a good example of a reasoned approach clicky.  Tbh this seems to me to be a good approach to dealing with this kind of a problem.

[davieB]

Drugs are going to be used and abused in society whether they are legal or not and personally I think that someone who wants to take drugs should be able to take them!!! The government have a responsibility here to commission research into various types of drugs and their long term effects and to offer sensible guidance to those who want to take them. They should also be responsible for checking the quality and purity of drugs so people don't end up taking too much by mistake or taking something totally unexpected! And then maybe the black market in drug dealing will cease and the government can make a fortune from VAT on drug sales (through chemists or off licenses, whatever). Also to free up space in prisons for violent offenders and those folk who really should be locked up.  Far more people die from alcohol related causes than from illegal drug taking!!! As a society we need to drag ourselves into the 21st century here and stop criminalising whole generations of folk who just want to have a good time without harming anyone else.

And with that in mind, would there really have been such a stushie if a player had been caught steaming drunk out on the town at the start of their summer hols? I think not.  :017:

Spot on Mee :clapping03:

Personally, my memories of my social life between the ages of 16-21 are all a bit of a haze :023: :023: :023:

Point one....no-one has even been charged over this incident!!

Point two...if it really does take months to analyse a 'substance' I think I'll join the drug squad and give 'em a few tips to help speed up the process!

Point three...who cares?!?! They're on a well earned break at the moment and doing what pleny of others do in their spare time.

Point four....I haven't taken anything for years and years(the occasional smoke aside), and have no wish to either. My choice. If someone else wants to take something , in their HOLIDAY period then that should in no way have any effect on their career.

Point five.....bugger, what was it again.... :crazy07:

[gordyfromsneck]

All true above, but I would have bet a fiver to a kilo of skunk, that that was who it would be. Form slips when the big money kicked in.

It is more about attitude, than any legal issues.

Now watch how many St. Mirren fans turn up here next season, for the apres match social life. :004:

[Feyenoord]

BBC Link

That is the best example of how something like this should be dealt with.... mistakes are made, it doesn't mean someone should be brought infront of a firing squad. 

He was on his holidays... off pre-season... and probably wanted to mix with everyone else

out of the 35 thousand there on saturday I'm sure there were only 1% that weren't fecked in some way

Are you for real?

[Exiled ICT]

The most important word you use there is 'allegedly.'  Until that 'allegedly' turns into 'did' then this forum cannot comment and cannot allow people to comment on the matter especially when it involves an ICT player (as it does in this case).

Ah, the joys of freedom of speech!

I must admit I am a bit baffled as to why no-one can talk about it on here, would the same censorship be applied if it was on of County's finest caught with drugs? The last time I checked freedom of speech was allowed in this country and no-one has the right to censor someone's opinion.

[Guest tartananorak]

Its amazing when so much is in the public domain that self interest kicks in.  Anyway to change the subject, if any player was a character from Snow White which dwarf would they be... can we start with Dopey?

[Council Juice]

As a player representing a community club if the alleged allegations are indeed fact then it is a disgrace and the said player should if true be rightfully ashamed at his actions as this not only tarnishes his reputation but the name of the club as well.

However I use recreational drugs (not saying whether their legal or not) from time to time and haven't felt that they overly affect my character in a bad way. Most make me merry and sociable (others i shun away from). I don't really care if i'm judged for this. I've seen plenty more fools who bring society down on booze than other things.

Francis Begbie was anti smack but he was a violent so and so and couldn't handle his drink in a positive sense.

Also look at Holland - before relaxing the laws on cannibas and such the drug crime and crime in general in Amsterdam was reaching unsustanible levels. It was on an upward spiral. Crime there now has reached record lows and continues to fall.

The UK on the other hand has some of the strictest laws on drugs in Europe and the highest crime rates along with that.

To put it briefly, I really hope if guilty the club dont go down the Chelsea/Mutu route and sack the player. Rehab and an enforced, but agreed to, community service helping youths with drug problem would be more benificial.

Whether the SFA chose to hammer any players on recreational drugs is outwith the clubs control but I am always bewildered why players who get done for steroids (and other performance enhancing drugs) get much shorter sentences than sportsmen who do cocaine for example. Cocaine is more of a personal problem which needs help than a means of cheating.

Someone dying of a heroin overdose at rock ness doesn't do much to lower the profile.

Moral of the story - Do what you like to your body, but dont get caught! :018:

[Guest ICT]

So, in short - you can discuss the subject, you can discuss the allegations which have been made in the press and you can discuss the facts as they are known to be.  What cannot be discussed is anything regarding the guilt or innocence of the player or any so-called facts - e.g "My mate said that he saw.....etc" - The only facts we will allow to be discussed are those which have been confirmed by an official source.

It's all a bit Harry Potter "He who shall not be named" style isn't it?

The national press have printed the name of the player concerned and the allegations against him. So, when posting on this subject it's fair play to refer to the player at the centre of these allegations by name then? And also the drug(s) involved?

[Scotty]

would the same censorship be applied if it was on of County's finest caught with drugs? The last time I checked freedom of speech was allowed in this country and no-one has the right to censor someone's opinion.

To answer your question about County - the answer is yes. for example, we did restrict what was allowed regarding a certain (fast food related) incident involving Tony Bullock and also had to be very careful about what was allowed when Graham Rix was briefly Hearts manager !!!

With regards to freedom of speech - yes, freedom of speech is allowed. However, bear in mind that the player is also entitled to certain rights such as the right not to be defamed, the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, and the right to his personal privacy.

If we decide that any opinion posted is defamatory or could cause us legal trouble if we leave it posted we also have the right to remove it .... and we will because at the end of the day, the most important right is my right not to have my *** sued !!!!

The national press have printed the name of the player concerned and the allegations against him. So, when posting on this subject it's fair play to refer to the player at the centre of these allegations by name then? And also the drug(s) involved?

I would rather we didnt but we will deal with each posting on its own individual merits. If someone claims that something is fact and it has not been established we will delete it, if it is something in the public domain as an established fact then it is ok so long as it does not cross the line.

As for the drug involved, I dont think that can be quoted ... given that 4 different agencies quoted 4 different alleged substances and the police have said a result from the test wont be known for some time then anything about that is pure an utter speculation.

[mainstander]

If your sure your 100% sure of the laws of libel defamation then carry on discussing this. If not then be VERY carefull about what you say here unless you want to run the risk of a nasty letter from Ritchie Harts lawyers. Theres a lot of legal red tape about this and I think its very risky indeed to discuss it publicly when its at this stage.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Another interesting aspect of a player's behaviour  :023:

Should be a few interesting conversations at the next team get together  :001:

** Heartbreaker Story Link **

[hislopsoffsideagain]

Considering the effects of marijuana on physical and mental health that have begun to emerge from recent studies (and my experiences as a medical student at Newcraigs a couple of years ago back those up strongly), I'm personally horrified that any athlete could even consider smoking dope, even just on occasion.  It would explain why he seems to run out of steam in the last 20 minutes of a game...