Player Behaviour

[Gabby]

Why is a topic that relates to player behaviour locked?

Players are role models whether they like it or not so why has discussion been suppressed relating to a player being found with an alleged illegal substance?

If the player was accused of assault or drink driving would the discussion be suppressed?

The reason I write this is because there is a serious discussion being undertaken in Australia about elite sportspersons and illegal drugs.

In the AFL (Australian Rules) I very high profile player (player of the season a few years ago) has been allowed to get away with blatant drug problems for years because he continued to play good football.  It was only when his drug problem esculated and his off field behaviour became impossible to ignore that he was finally suspended indefinatley by his club.  The point is that they ignored his problem while he delivered on the field knowing full well of his problem. 

I am not for one moment suggesting that the alleged ICT player has the same problem.  All I am saying is that if the problem is ignored then it may get much worse before it gets better.

I don't understand how suppressing debate on this issue actually helps.  I think people ought to be outraged.  Because the story is now in the public arena ICT's reputation ispotentially tarnished.

Surely this is an opprotunity for officials at ICT to be a community leader and recognise the problem and assist the player.

Drugs are a community problem and if we recognise that professional footballers can also be attracted to drugs I believe it is ICT's duty to be measured and proactive in its response.

I understand they cannot act until the substance has been identified but if the alleged substance turns out to be an illegal drug then ICT needs to be a community leader.

Most professional football clubs (across all codes Soccer, Rugby League and Rugby Union) have strong anti drug polices (and regularly test for performance enhancing and recreational drugs) except for the AFL and they have paid the price for a very high profile drug problem.

It is very easy to ignore a potentially dangerous issue.

(Or.........IHE has been handing out Stamps inappropriately)

Gabby

[Caley Stan]

If the P & J can name him, why can't we?

[EWS]

The admins have explained why they cannot allow this to be up for discussion when the facts are not known at this time.  I have read 3 different reports in three different newspapers and all of them say different things.

The Daily Record claims it was cocaine.

The Sun claims it was either cocaine or speed

The P+J claims it was cannabis.

I have read a report that he was caught in possession after being reported and I have read that he was in his car looking for something when he discovered it.  Until the facts of the matter have been released, and are not just heresay, then the website (which acts as the official forum for ICT) cannot under any circumstances put itself in a position where they may be cited for libel, defamation, perverting the course of justice or any other law.  This topic will be discussed at some point, and I have intimated to the admin that I would like this topic to be discussed.  However, at the moment it cannot because we do not know all the facts and all we have are rumors.

The personal life of players has always been one that has come under scrutiny, and one that this website (as long as I have been around) have decided to actively take a stance against discussing.  Yes this topic is going to promote a discussion on drugs and sporting heroes, but until we can separate the private life of one of our players and the topic of drugs in football the admin are going to continue to stick to their guns I feel.

[Gabby]

If a player is alegedly taking recreational drugs during the season does this not have a potential to have a negative impact on their ability to perform.

if a player was accused on taking performance enhancing drugs would the coverage be different???

In this case the alleged drug, while recreational, could be reducing the players ability to peform, why is this treated differently???

[EWS]

The most important word you use there is 'allegedly.'  Until that 'allegedly' turns into 'did' then this forum cannot comment and cannot allow people to comment on the matter especially when it involves an ICT player (as it does in this case).

Like I said, I would welcome a discussion on players who take recreational drugs and the morality behind all of this, but if it cannot be separated from what a player has 'allegedly' done then the admin of this forum cannot allow the topic to remain open and in public view.

As far as we know, the player might have done nothing wrong and it may be a case of in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Gabby]

I am talking generally here without making reference to any specific player.

My question is if a player was to be found to be in possession of an illegal drug, what action should ICT take?

Answers on a postcard

[Gabby]

The reason I bring this up is because there have been some very inconsistent responses to this issue in the various football codes in Australia

For example - Rugby Union

Wendel Sailor tests positive for Cocaine and is banned for 2 years (situation, the Australian Rugby Union spent $1 million per season on this ex - rugby league player and were looking for an out on his contract)

AFL

High profile West Coast Eagles player Ben Cousins (while never testing positive) has an alleged well documented illict drug issue which has resulted in the police becoming involved on more than one occassion.  Result - the club suspended the player and sent him off for rehab.

NRL (Rugby League)

Mitchell Sargent - did not test positive but found by Police with Cocaine. He was sacked by his club (first offence) and subsequently signed by a new club within 2 weeks. (No suspension - no penalty he just wears a different coloured jersey and was singed by a club at the bottom of the ladder looking for instant results)

My question is hypothetically, if a player was to be found by police to be in possession of illegal drugs, what should the club response be???

[Scotty]

Gabby - talking generally about the problem in sport is quite acceptable. The new head of the SFA Gordon Smith talked about making drug tests mandatory and this is also OK.

Where we have to tread very carefully - as EWS has so eloquently pointed out - is when we start narrowing that discussion from a broad based discussion to one that focuses on an individual player then we have to be sure that the content of the postings are actually based on facts. So far I have seen different reports that alleged one of 4 different drugs, found in one of 3 or 4 different places and with a couple of different outcomes for the player. What we havent heard yet is a response from the club or the player which I think would me more accurate.

[Gabby]

That's fine.

I haven't made an allegation about any specific player about any specific drug.

I have written about that various inconsistencies in dealing with the issue in Australia citing specific examples.

My question from the start is how should the club handle this if the allegation is upheld?

[EWS]

I don't think it is any secret that cocaine usage amongst football players is a problem in Scottish football.  Because it is removed from the system quickly, it makes the perfect drug amongst sportstars.

With Gordon Smith saying that he wants mandatory drugs test for everyone, I think he has recognised that there is a problem within football.  I'm kind of split on this topic.  Part of me wants to say 'Out of sight, out of mind' and part of me wants all users to be banned.

I sometimes think if it isn't affecting the players ability then where is the harm?  We hear of stars in other professions with drug problems, they are splashed all over the tabloids and what usually happens there?

[Gabby]

In my opinion drug policies should reflect community standards.  Do we accepte "out of sight, out of mind" in the general community?

Why should professional footballers be any different from other members of the community?

If the allegations are upheld is this not an opportunity to assist the player and draw attention to a nationwide issue. 

ICT is potentially presented with an opportunity to be a community leader and address this problem. 

Sure drugs are seen as an issue with professional footballers, why can't ICT be a leader in addressing this issue?

[EWS]

If the allegations are upheld is this not an opportunity to assist the player and draw attention to a nationwide issue. 

ICT is potentially presented with an opportunity to be a community leader and address this problem. 

Sure drugs are seen as an issue with professional footballers, why can't ICT be a leader in addressing this issue?

What you have done there is directly reference the event that myself and Scotty have said that just cannot be done.  You have narrowed down the discussion instead of keeping it broad.

[Gabby]

Rubbish!

All I am asking is, hypothetically, what should the club do if a player was to be caught by police with an illegal drug?

There has been no specific reference to a player or incident.  I don't see how my question could be broader?

None of my posts have directly or indirectly quoted or mentioned yourself or Scotty.

If you don't want to address the question, fine. 

[Scotty]

If the allegations are upheld is this not an opportunity to assist the player and draw attention to a nationwide issue. 

ICT is potentially presented with an opportunity to be a community leader and address this problem. 

Sure drugs are seen as an issue with professional footballers, why can't ICT be a leader in addressing this issue?

What you have done there is directly reference the event that myself and Scotty have said that just cannot be done.  You have narrowed down the discussion instead of keeping it broad.

I think that is still reasonably broad ! - anyone coming on here has probably read 4 or 5 different accounts of the alleged incident so knows at least one of the many stories going around. All we are asking is that any discussion on this subject is kept to the broad topic until such time as the player/club have made comment.

[EWS]

If the allegations are upheld is this not an opportunity to assist the player and draw attention to a nationwide issue.

ICT is potentially presented with an opportunity to be a community leader and address this problem.

Sure drugs are seen as an issue with professional footballers, why can't ICT be a leader in addressing this issue?

That part there suggests you are referring to the recent newspaper stories.

My thoughts on drugs are not in line with a communities, so thus I don't really have any place to comment.

[Guest Big_Vinnie]

In general drug use in sport should not be tolerated. All sportmen/women have thousands of people looking up to them & should lead by example.

If a sportsman/women is caught using an illegal drug then by all means that sports governing body should do all they can to help them personally. However, this help should come at the expense of a life ban at the sport.

Footballers, runners & rugby players etc all know the conduct expected of them. They use drugs perfectly knowingly that if caught it could ruin their carear. When they choose to use these drugs they knowingly "take that risk".

My honest opinion is that the only way to rid sports of drug use is to hand out life bans to any sportsman/women who knowingly take the risk.

[Gabby]

I have made no reference to newspaper stories.

That is your inference - and I cannot be held responsible for this.

All I have read is the BBC report alleging an ICT player was found in possession of an illict drug.

I am not commenting on the specific incident.

I am asking for opinions on what ICT's action should be IF a player was to be found to be in possession of an illegal drug.  Does the club have a duty of care to support a player in this situation?

Is this a breach of their player contract?

Does the SPL/SFA or the various other alphabets in charge of Scottish Football have a policy in dealing with this issue.

I only bring this up because in Australia we have 4 different football codes with 4 very different drug testing/drug policies.  Thge only thing they have in common is the higher profile the player the more likely they are to avoid consequences for their actions.

If the allegation is upheld is this not an opportunity for the club to be a community leader?

What do the fans believe to be reasonable action for the club to take if the allegation is upheld?

[Harry Chibber]

BBC Link

That is the best example of how something like this should be dealt with.... mistakes are made, it doesn't mean someone should be brought infront of a firing squad. 

He was on his holidays... off pre-season... and probably wanted to mix with everyone else

out of the 35 thousand there on saturday I'm sure there were only 1% that weren't fecked in some way

[Flower]

I thought that this site was unofficial :024:

I am referring to EWS's first post

[Gabby]

Thank you Flower, Roscoe.

some opinions - at last!!

[PullMyFinger]

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

If you or your son were to 'allegedly' be caught taking a controlled substance on your/his holidays how would you want the employers to handle it? In this country employers are morally obliged to help if their employees have a dependency. Also is it reasonable to punish someone twice for the same irresponsible act?

I look forward to my holidays and if my employers were to tell me how to behave when I am not at work I don't think they'd like the reply. Why should the players not be indulged the same freedoms?

If there is any truth to the story, I expect the PF will deal with it as he sees fit. If not then the players  reputation has already been damaged and threads like this don't help, frankly they just add to the pressure on the individual, the club and the authorities.

[Gabby]

I will say it again - I have made no direct reference to the current incident.

I am asking for opinions on what ICT's action should be IF a player was to be found to be in possession of an illegal drug.  Does the club have a duty of care to support a player in this situation?

Is this a breach of their player contract?

Does the SPL/SFA or the various other alphabets in charge of Scottish Football have a policy in dealing with this issue.

[Guest Big_Vinnie]

I know - why ***** foot around??

Everyone knows a player was caught in pocession of drugs.

Everyone knows it was an Inverness player.

So what if all the papers are saying a different story about what he had or where he was caught.

The main fact is that an Inverness player was caught in pocession of illegal drugs - why can't we discuss it  :024:

[PullMyFinger]

Off topic, I know. But I find it very interesting to note Iain Botham (already an OBE) is to become Sir Iain Botham.  I personally don't have an issue with that but I expect our cousin down under may have on opinion?

[Flower]

The point is that this issue is being discussed in other forums and in the print media.

For an unofficial site to curb what is now a legitimate topic reminds me of what it was like when it WAS the official site.

I thought that the idea behind becoming unofficial was that topics could be discussed that the club would have preferred to be left unsaid.