The Boards Role In All This?

[Renegade]

I can't believe that some people are blaming Butcher in all this. Do they really believe the turn around that could come to fruitation with ICT in the SPL next season would've happened if Brewster had stayed? I doubt it, if Brew hadn't been sacked ICT would be long gone by now. I doubt that not even Alex Ferguson with Jose Mouriniho as his number two would do much better than Butcher and Malpas have done, cause after all the current squad are not the best players in the world, they are huiman, they WILL and have made mistakes. Who do I blame? Well not Butcher and Malpas cause what they've done in the space of a few months is unreal. Brewster? He shouldn't have been brought b ack in the first as after his Dundee United disaster is was plain to see he could couldn't cut it at this level. The Board? If the board hadn't brought Brew back and perhaps gone for the capable managerial skills of Owen Coyle (who possibly would've come), then I doubt this would have ever happened. If the worst comes to the worst and ICT go down, the board must act like the men they are and accept the blame.

[cal234ey]

I agree in any normal season what Butcher has achieved would have seen us safe therefore he cannot be blamed.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Glen Mhor,

David Sutherland has saved the club on more than one occasion and put in a significant amount of effort and cash which people do not see. It is inappropriate to be abusive with him now.

It is possible he was part of the error of judgement this season with the placid new Chairman and extended loyalty to Brewster and Thomson. Professionally he with others can be criticised for that.

He has worked his way up in life and on a different scale epitomises the rise of ICT. Neither his demise nor ICT's is yet fact.

[Johnboy]

I agree in any normal season what Butcher has achieved would have seen us safe therefore he cannot be blamed.

I'll certainly blame him if he picks Fraser over Esson and we lose the game.

We all know who the better keeper is.

Why can't he see that?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Come on folks - there are lots of feckin variables and side issues - BUT the bottom line is that the Board should have sacked Brewster in October/November 2008 AT THE VERY EARLIEST. Their dogged determination to stick by him has led to the present situation. I respected Sutherland for years but do NOT EVER forget that Sutherland even tried to place the blame on the Supporters Trust and the fans - He cowardly hid behind the fact that he wasnt a Board Member.

George Fraser is yet another Tulloch puppet - Grasser is a great servant but is clearly out of his depth and then there is Mike Smith - what is he getting paid for - what does he actually do ?

[CaleyP]

I can't believe that some people are blaming Butcher in all this. Do they really believe the turn around that could come to fruitation with ICT in the SPL next season would've happened if Brewster had stayed? I doubt it, if Brew hadn't been sacked ICT would be long gone by now. I doubt that not even Alex Ferguson with Jose Mouriniho as his number two would do much better than Butcher and Malpas have done, cause after all the current squad are not the best players in the world, they are huiman, they WILL and have made mistakes. Who do I blame? Well not Butcher and Malpas cause what they've done in the space of a few months is unreal. Brewster? He shouldn't have been brought b ack in the first as after his Dundee United disaster is was plain to see he could couldn't cut it at this level. The Board? If the board hadn't brought Brew back and perhaps gone for the capable managerial skills of Owen Coyle (who possibly would've come), then I doubt this would have ever happened. If the worst comes to the worst and ICT go down, the board must act like the men they are and accept the blame.

apart from the fact that ferguson and mouriniho are far superior managers in every right...no of course they couldn't have done better than terry butcher...I stopped taking what you were writing seriously after you mentioned butcher and malpas in the same sentence as the aforementioned. wow.

for one they wouldn't just chuck any old player in any old position, that's called chancing your luck, they would play the best 11 available every week in the correct positions because that's what good managers do. butcher hasn't done this and it's his job to do so. butcher has to take blame if we go down full stop.

[caleyboy]

Come on folks - there are lots of feckin variables and side issues - BUT the bottom line is that the Board should have sacked Brewster in October/November 2008 AT THE VERY EARLIEST. Their dogged determination to stick by him has led to the present situation. I respected Sutherland for years but do NOT EVER forget that Sutherland even tried to place the blame on the Supporters Trust and the fans - He cowardly hid behind the fact that he wasnt a Board Member.

George Fraser is yet another Tulloch puppet - Grasser is a great servant but is clearly out of his depth and then there is Mike Smith - what is he getting paid for - what does he actually do ?

Only Grassa & Sutherland are to blame for the Brewster sitation. If we go down, there will be major changes needed and it will be interesting to see how much we paid certain directors during this financial year. Sutherland will probably say lots to save face but at the end of the day he is only there to look after the future value of the Tulloch investment. The wage bill will need to be SLASHED and that would normally start with the big earners (DoF, CEO, Manager, Head of Youth, etc). I hope it doesn't happen but if it does, it will be very interesting to see them all fight their corner. In the meantime - C'MON THE CALEY!

[cal234ey]

Are you being serious? Honestly where would we be right now if they kept Brew maybe 25 points if we are lucky with butcher we have the chance to stay up and you blame him for it. You are surely having a laugh.

[WYNESS101]

Brew wouldnt have got 4 points from the OF

Edited May 17, 2009 by WYNESS101

[cal234ey]

Doubt it brew would have got 4 points from the OF

Are you of your head Brew would not have got 1 point from them.

[AJS]

Is sutherland actually a foorball fan or purely in it for his own gain/benefit?

I think David Sutherland is on a monster ego trip and ICT is just one of his oulets for him to spout forth.

If we stay up then it would be great to point the finger and say we were right to voice or concerns and the board were wrong to stick with Brew.

[WYNESS101]

Doubt it brew would have got 4 points from the OF

Are you of your head Brew would not have got 1 point from them.

wouldnt* :)

i suck at spellin

[cal234ey]

thank god for that i was just about to ask someone to examine your head. :) :015: :015:

[WYNESS101]

thank god for that i was just about to ask someone to examine your head. :) :015: :015:

:015: :015:

[Harry Chibber]

In my opinion no blame would attach to the present manager and his assistant should we be relegated next week. Our form since their arrival would have seen us finish sixth if it had been replicated all season.

Some blame but not much, in my view, attaches to the players, they are largely the same group of players as now but were clearly not all 100% committed to the cause in the latter days of the Brewster regime. Most are mature seasoned professionals and should take some personal responsibility no matter their erstewhile manager's shortcomings.

I may not be in the majority but I don't much blame Brewster either he was a hopeless manager, coach and tactician but that's not his fault all he could do was his best. I've no reason to believe he didn't try as hard as he could and that's all that we can ask of anybody.

Like a number of others, I blame David Sutherland and the board. Mr Sutherland in the past has made a number of prudent and selfless decisions which have been to the benefit of the club and there is a strong argument that the club would not exist, at least as a full time football club, without his prudence and largess in the past.

However, in the matter of Craig Brewster those charged with the management of the club have been untypically negligent both in his initial reappointment and also in retaining his services for far too long when certainly by November it was clear to all others concerned that he was not up to the task and that if he remained in post we were doomed to relegation.

Actually I think Butcher & Malpas will deserve some of the blame if we do get relegated.

Given the situation when they came on board they achieved a minor miracle in getting us off the bottom. However, consistently poor team selections have taken us form the verge of safety back to the brink of relegation. We can't pin that on clueless Craig

complately agree, at the end of the day it's football...it's simple one team has to score more goals than the other and its the managers duty to play his best 11 in the appropriate positions, if he does not do this then the manager has to take at least 50% of the blame and then same to the players. If people want to kid themselves and blame it on the board then go on but your just delusional. People need to wake up and realise this, butcher and brew both have done pretty poor jobs when you look at the actual facts which are the lack of points on the board from both managers. people just look stupid if they want to argue with facts. you could say butcher did well when he came first came in but now he has almost chucked it all away. he has to take a huge chunk of the blame as at end of the day it was his job to keep us up...NOONE elses.

23 points from 16 games since Butcher took over, including a win and a draw against either side of the old firm. I'm struggling to see what you're getting at... with that sort of points tally we would be in the top 6 if he was incharge from the start of the season.

There has been a couple of dissapointing results but what are you expecting... perfection?

It's my fault for not being at as many games as I should have at the start of the season and for backing Brew til the end :023:

[cal234ey]

The board should have punted him a long long time before they did. It was obvious he had no clue and the players were not exactly his biggest fans either. Butcher has come in and done remarkably well and cannot be blamed for any of this. The blame lies entirely with the board.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

The board should have punted him a long long time before they did. It was obvious he had no clue and the players were not exactly his biggest fans either. Butcher has come in and done remarkably well and cannot be blamed for any of this. The blame lies entirely with the board.

Butcher can be blamed for putting personal differences with Ryan Esson ahead of the good of the team IMHO .

[Harry Chibber]

Maybe Esson was dropped for the good of the team... unless you have insider knowledge????

[davieB]

Simple fact is we'd have been relegated by now if Brewster had still been in charge. That day we lost at Hamilton was one of the lowest times I've ever had watching ICT. It was like the whole team had given up. If, on that day, we'd been offered the chance of survival by just getting a draw on the last day of the seaon, I think we'd have all happily taken that. And that's where we're at.

How can Butcher be blamed for any of this?? Aye, most of the time the football has been dire, but we've got points. He's at least instilled a bit of fight back into the team, and given them a much needed shot of confidence. If the board had the balls to have got him in a month earlier then I honestly believe we'd be clear of relegation by now.

Tell you what though, I know which manager I'd rather have in the dressing room next week giving the pre-match team talk. And it ain't John Hughes, and it certainly ain't Brewster. Butcher will have us fired up, no question, and well, if we don't do it, I certainly won't be putting any of the blame on Tel.

[cal234ey]

That is all relevant as to what he did. Barry Ferguson and Allan Mcgregor behaved like prats and their manager punted them despite their team. Fair enough theirs was definetley worse but it is the same principle. And although Fraser han't exactly inspired confidence in me has he made a mistake since coming in?

You could argue that he should have come for the cross against Hamilton but the defence should have been able to deal with it or the ref should have seen the blatant foul. Maybe he should have been in the right place against Killie but no one at all was marking Kyle at the back post so IMO that goal is down defnesive errors.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Simple fact is we'd have been relegated by now if Brewster had still been in charge. That day we lost at Hamilton was one of the lowest times I've ever had watching ICT. It was like the whole team had given up. If, on that day, we'd been offered the chance of survival by just getting a draw on the last day of the seaon, I think we'd have all happily taken that. And that's where we're at.

How can Butcher be blamed for any of this?? Aye, most of the time the football has been dire, but we've got points. He's at least instilled a bit of fight back into the team, and given them a much needed shot of confidence. If the board had the balls to have got him in a month earlier then I honestly believe we'd be clear of relegation by now.

Tell you what though, I know which manager I'd rather have in the dressing room next week giving the pre-match team talk. And it ain't John Hughes, and it certainly ain't Brewster. Butcher will have us fired up, no question, and well, if we don't do it, I certainly won't be putting any of the blame on Tel.

:023: BUT the "split" games last season were a TOTAL embarrassment and Brew could have been hoofed in the summer - BUT I felt at a very low ebb for several months before the Hamilton defeat - thank feck Rosscoe didnt score with the late header !!!

If I wanted somebody in my corner it would be Butcher. Or else he would end up looking like his famous piccy :)

[DornochJAGGIE]

for me the brewster situation and whether he should have had the bullet sooner is secondary to finding the reasons behind why we find ourselves here. i blame the board firstly for the sale of players like nicolae, wyness, and bayne etc and not taking in replacements able to supply the goals which would have seen us clear of all this

Did we sell Wyness and Bayne??? Thought they signed on a pre-contract

we showed them the door.

Wyness, Bayne, Wilson were all waiting on a contract to be offer to them, but it never happend!

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Maybe Esson was dropped for the good of the team... unless you have insider knowledge????

I know what went on Harry .

Why would Esson be dropped for the good of the team when he hasn't made any mistakes ?

[DornochJAGGIE]

In my opinion no blame would attach to the present manager and his assistant should we be relegated next week. Our form since their arrival would have seen us finish sixth if it had been replicated all season.

Some blame but not much, in my view, attaches to the players, they are largely the same group of players as now but were clearly not all 100% committed to the cause in the latter days of the Brewster regime. Most are mature seasoned professionals and should take some personal responsibility no matter their erstewhile manager's shortcomings.

I may not be in the majority but I don't much blame Brewster either he was a hopeless manager, coach and tactician but that's not his fault all he could do was his best. I've no reason to believe he didn't try as hard as he could and that's all that we can ask of anybody.

Like a number of others, I blame David Sutherland and the board. Mr Sutherland in the past has made a number of prudent and selfless decisions which have been to the benefit of the club and there is a strong argument that the club would not exist, at least as a full time football club, without his prudence and largess in the past.

However, in the matter of Craig Brewster those charged with the management of the club have been untypically negligent both in his initial reappointment and also in retaining his services for far too long when certainly by November it was clear to all others concerned that he was not up to the task and that if he remained in post we were doomed to relegation.

Actually I think Butcher & Malpas will deserve some of the blame if we do get relegated.

Given the situation when they came on board they achieved a minor miracle in getting us off the bottom. However, consistently poor team selections have taken us form the verge of safety back to the brink of relegation. We can't pin that on clueless Craig

complately agree, at the end of the day it's football...it's simple one team has to score more goals than the other and its the managers duty to play his best 11 in the appropriate positions, if he does not do this then the manager has to take at least 50% of the blame and then same to the players. If people want to kid themselves and blame it on the board then go on but your just delusional. People need to wake up and realise this, butcher and brew both have done pretty poor jobs when you look at the actual facts which are the lack of points on the board from both managers. people just look stupid if they want to argue with facts. you could say butcher did well when he came first came in but now he has almost chucked it all away. he has to take a huge chunk of the blame as at end of the day it was his job to keep us up...NOONE elses.

23 points from 16 games since Butcher took over, including a win and a draw against either side of the old firm. I'm struggling to see what you're getting at... with that sort of points tally we would be in the top 6 if he was incharge from the start of the season.

There has been a couple of dissapointing results but what are you expecting... perfection?

It's my fault for not being at as many games as I should have at the start of the season and for backing Brew til the end :023:

i

I agree. How some people can slag off TB is unbelievible. Just cos a result doesnt go our way, look at what he has done since he arrived! IF WE STAY U IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT STORY EH.

[Harry Chibber]

Maybe Esson was dropped for the good of the team... unless you have insider knowledge????

I know what went on Harry .

Why would Esson be dropped for the good of the team when he hasn't made any mistakes ?

Maybe he's an erse who's disrupting the team spirit??? Who fecking knows but one thing I've learned from playing in a few different footie teams is the manager is ALWAYS right.... even when you disagree with tactics, decisions etc. you do exactly as he says because he is your manager!! What does a goalkeeper have to argue about anyway? He dives inside the sticks, kicks the ball out and tries to keep the defence right, other than that he should keep his mouth shut and get on with it because that is what he's paid to do.