Holywood Stereotyping....

[CaleyD]

I see we're about to be lumbered by another Holywood production full of historically inaccurate and stereotypical tosh.

Gaelic Speaking Highlanders Indeed!!!

I think I'll track down an e.mail address and complain....probably won't do any good, but I'll feel better after a good rant :D

[SMEE]

Flip! I despise anything to do with Gaelic! Why make a movie, where only 1% of a country with a population can understand it. ( I know there will be subtitles) Al deffo give it a wide berth given its Gaelic connections!

[Renegade]

Is it just me or is Gaelic being made to look in a far more healthier state than it actually is these days? There seems to be Gaelic this, Gaelic that and a whole heap of other stuff that seems to have popped up in the last couple of years. I can't see the justification in the money it gets at all.

[Scarlet Pimple]

I can investigate this for you if you like...for a donation to the Hall of course.

Was it before or after Mons Graupius...you know , the huge battle between a large Roman Army and thousands of Picts who greatly outnumbered the Romans which was fought close enough to Aberdeen. The Romans won and then marched up as far as the Moray Firth but no further, later being withdrawn in part and then in whole to Rome.?

Charles , no doubt you can add a comment here. ??

[SMEE]

Apparently (in case anyone didnt read the story) i think it was about 5000 Roman soldiers marched into the highlands, only to mysteriously disappear. Personally, was it a coincidence that at that time, there was a sudden flourish of Chip Shops and Ice Cream parlours in the highlands :023:

And Renegade....Gaelic is dying on its arse....but....unfortunatley, the Gaelic fraternity seems to have some hold over the scottish govt. Gaelic isnt no more the Scottish language than Pictish, Ancient Norse or a few other languages there has been in these parts over the course of time.

But the Gaelic speakers approach is two fold. In one hand, they go bleating to the Scottish Govt, saying they need to pump money into the language to keep it alive. Then in the next breath, they are making demands because the language is flourishing. I can see the day when they are demanding there be gaelic speakers in all shops etc!

If Gaelic was an animal, it would have been long since put out of its misery!

I cant sum it up better than to say, in my near 40 years on this planet....all spent in the Highlands, i have heard only TWO conversations being conducted in everyday life. Says it all really!

[Georgeios]

I think the points been missed here, its not a Gaelic film being made by bbc Alba or the likes, as it says in the link, other films have been made using the Dilect of the times, as in passion of the christ who on earth could understand what was being said.... I was an awsome film as it kept it real instead of using some Yank trying an accent and making a hash of it... the film is going to be as close to how they spoke back then end off, its not some rubbish hash up of some films out there.....

[Renegade]

Apparently (in case anyone didnt read the story) i think it was about 5000 Roman soldiers marched into the highlands, only to mysteriously disappear. Personally, was it a coincidence that at that time, there was a sudden flourish of Chip Shops and Ice Cream parlours in the highlands :023:

And Renegade....Gaelic is dying on its arse....but....unfortunatley, the Gaelic fraternity seems to have some hold over the scottish govt. Gaelic isnt no more the Scottish language than Pictish, Ancient Norse or a few other languages there has been in these parts over the course of time.

But the Gaelic speakers approach is two fold. In one hand, they go bleating to the Scottish Govt, saying they need to pump money into the language to keep it alive. Then in the next breath, they are making demands because the language is flourishing. I can see the day when they are demanding there be gaelic speakers in all shops etc!

If Gaelic was an animal, it would have been long since put out of its misery!

I cant sum it up better than to say, in my near 40 years on this planet....all spent in the Highlands, i have heard only TWO conversations being conducted in everyday life. Says it all really!

I was looking through one of the old Gaelic threads on here from a few months back (the one about roadsigns and accidents IIRC), and someone on there said that there was some folk I'm guessing in a government position wanted to build new villages where Gaelic was the only language! You couldn't make it up. But here's the thing, if something like that happened, isn't that just a light apartheid? It seems as time goes on the Gaelic gang keep trying and trying to get Gaelic in the everyday lives of folk, but from what I can see it sets people further apart, and you can't seem to complain about it cause then you get called a racist and a bigot (as I have seen from frequent comments pages on the Highland News website).

[SMEE]

... the film is going to be as close to how they spoke back then end off,

Did it not mention in the article, that (according to a historian) Gaelic wasnt even around in Scotland at the time during which this movie is set? Al wager that the inclusion of gaelic is a move to ensure funding for the movie or something!

[SMEE]

someone on there said that there was some folk I'm guessing in a government position wanted to build new villages where Gaelic was the only language! You couldn't make it up.

This is where the Gaelic strength lyes. They demand that positions of power are created in the name of Gaelic, and they get their way. And of course, the only ones that can get these positions are the Gaelic speakers themselves. Then they get to work on creating more "jobs for the boys". Just like the Highland Council last year...creating two positions for Gaelic translators to translate meetings, minutes etc....starting on the rather healthy salary of around ?40 000 per year each!

But as you point out renegade, you dare challenge the Gaelic fraternity on the legitamcy of the amount of money spent flogging their particular dead horse...your met with a very hostile reply, very quick to throw accusations at you and label you as whatever.

Edited August 3, 2009 by SMEE

[Renegade]

... the film is going to be as close to how they spoke back then end off,

Did it not mention in the article, that (according to a historian) Gaelic wasnt even around in Scotland at the time during which this movie is set? Al wager that the inclusion of gaelic is a move to ensure funding for the movie or something!

I don't know how true this is, but I'm guessing it is, is that Scottish Gaelic is just a sort of regional dialect of the Irish Gaelic, in a similar way that Scots and Doric are dialects of English, which goes onto beg the question, does that make Scottish Gaelic a real language? I would say no it wouldn't, it's rather a dialect spoken by a few tens of thousabds of people.

[SMEE]

I can see where this is going :P

lets just have one thread on here where we can vent our distaste for all things Gaelic

[Georgeios]

the picts were the original Brits so over all Gaelic is maybe the wrong langue to be spoken in the film, should be pictish.

[caley100]

I dont have a problem with gaelic, just leaves a funny taste in me mouth, especially after eating that bread...

Seriously though, i dont have a problem with the language or the people that use it, dont really mind if we give them some money to keep it alive, but what annoys me is when it is forced down our throat.

Coming back from the airport the other day i noted that the road signs have garlic in the big lettering and english the far smaller size, feckin stupid, i mean how many road users will actually require the gaelic to work out where to go? - no one.

Its purely for the tourists - nothing else.

[CaleyD]

I don't have a problem with Gaelic itself either....or any language. What I do have a problem with is the ongoing campaign to graft it on the whole of Scotland and pass it off as the native language.

I am NOT of Irish/Gaelic descent and I take great offence at my true heritage being drowned in a sea of Gaelic and it annoys me a great deal.

The fact that we allow film makers to totally disregard the facts also annoys me. This movie is being touted as an "Historical Epic" when it has little to no basis in historical fact.......Gaelic was not spoken in Scotland at that time and the Roman Legion that it is based upon didn't go missing in Scotland.

[Johnboy]

I dont have a problem with gaelic, just leaves a funny taste in me mouth, especially after eating that bread...

Seriously though, i dont have a problem with the language or the people that use it, dont really mind if we give them some money to keep it alive, but what annoys me is when it is forced down our throat.

Coming back from the airport the other day i noted that the road signs have garlic in the big lettering and english the far smaller size, feckin stupid, i mean how many road users will actually require the gaelic to work out where to go? - no one.

Its purely for the tourists - nothing else.

Totally agree with that - the new signs around the airport are completely ludicrous.

Is there any evidence, that tourists from anywhere find these signs benefit them in any way?

[Charles Bannerman]

Charles , no doubt you can add a comment here. ??

We are talking about two completely different things here.

The Battle of Mons Graupius represented the high water mark of the Roman conquest of Scotland and indeed took place not far from Aberdeen (Inverurie I think) between the Romans and the Picts under Calgacus. (Some years ago we had a "Calgacus" who used to post on here - he is one of the many I miss greatly but that's another issue.) In anticipation of later forays by Celtic to stuff the Dons at Pittodrie, the Romans walked it. Certainly at the time of Mons Graupius, which I think was late 1st Century AD, there would be no question of Gaelic being spoken since that didn't appear until a lot later. But on the other hand this is Hollywood, which has imposed far more profuond changes on the history of the world than that - albeit usually to the benefit of the Americans. (Well, OK, for all I know maybe this film is about the Americans winning Mons Graupius, with John Wayne as Agricola and Tom Hanks commanding the Seventh Cavalry.)

But I digress! The "disappeared" legion was the Roman IX (9th), the Hispana. There was a legend that they disappeared in Scotland but this was discredited some time ago although that didn't prevent several authors from writing fiction about this.

The Picts, by the way, were originally called that by the Romans. It's from the Latin verb "pingere" to paint which has "pictum" as its past participle. Because these people had painted bodies, the Romans called them the "picti" or painted ones.

I've often wondered why the Government never gives any money for the restoration of the Pictish language which was as much superseded by Gaelic as Gaelic was ultimately by English.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[caley100]

Kind of knew you would clarify the topic Charles..

Anyway the mind boggles, English,Gaelic and now Pictish signs... :017:

[Charles Bannerman]

I see we're about to be lumbered by another Holywood production full of historically inaccurate and stereotypical tosh.

Gaelic Speaking Highlanders Indeed!!!

I think I'll track down an e.mail address and complain....probably won't do any good, but I'll feel better after a good rant

I've now read the original article in the link. Typical Americans. By the standards of most other countries, they don't really have much history of their own to speak of so they instead make it their business to corrupt other people's.

[caley100]

Very true... i didnt know the Americans won the second world war on their own, and that Mel Gibson beats all and sundry from earth and space all on his own.

[Georgeios]

Mel Gibson's an auzzie

[caley100]

Not in the films he's not.

[Scotty]

I remember seeing a T-Shirt a few years ago with the tongue in cheek tagline "Heroes of Scotland" and on it was a picture of Mel Gibson (Aussie) from Braveheart, Liam Neeson (Irishman) from Rob Roy, and Christophe Lambert (Frenchman) from Highlander ..... kinda sums it all up !!!

Now, I enjoyed all three films mentioned above, especially when Tim Roth was cut in two by Neeson in Rob Roy, but it is true to say that the two based on real people were far more "Hollywood" than historical. There may have been elements from history in there, but timelines and events were widely skewed, glamourised, or invented to fit in with the screenplay.

I dont actually have a problem with that on most levels. I know they are all Hollywood bull**** and any resemblance to fact is purely coincidental, but all three films (I am including all the Highlander movies as a single entity for this) did some good for tourism by bringing Scotland back to the forefront.

The most notable of course was Braveheart, which was far more succesful in getting wannabe Scots from all over the globe to flock to Scotland and research their heritage than the "homecoming" campaign that has been half-heartedly promoted over the last year. A decent film - even if ficticious (or should that be picticious) - raises the profile and brings Scotland back into the awareness of people. Twee though they may be, even Ted Danson's "Loch Ness" and the more recent "Water Horse: Legend of the Deep" probably brought some tourist pounds into the area and that can be no bad thing.

Incidentally - I just watched "Stone of Destiny" on DVD at the weekend and enjoyable as it was, yet another "Hero of Scotland", the actor who played the real-life Ian Hamilton (who was a consultant on the film) was not Scottish ... he was English actor Charlie Cox

[Glebeict]

But robert carlye can't be in everything.

By the way I liked Hamish MacBeth

[Scotty]

Robert Carlyle was in Stone of Destiny !!! He was just too old to play the lead character (a university student)

[Glebeict]

Talking about the Stone -- Is the stone now in Edinburgh Castle the real one? I saw it and it looks like a dull chunk of sandstone. Any old description I have seen of the stone states it was iridescent