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Inverness CT -V- Queen of the South

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1 hour ago, Weekend Hacker said:

I must confess yesterday left me almost as gutted as losing in Dinge  Wall.  I genuinely (naively?) believe that our players have shown themselves to be as good as any other in the league on occasion. Problem is we aren’t doing that with consistency and like many I just think tactically we are crying out for a change.  We seem so pedestrian in attack with no real urgency to get forward and in behind and most of our goals have come from a quick passing movement not the laborious slow build up we seem to favour.  I can’t remember a game where we have had a series of balls played in front for someone to run on to, our strikers seem to have the ball played mainly when they are facing away from goal - fine if they are then laying of to someone on a burst but this isn’t happening.  Other results went our way Friday/ Saturday but we didn’t capitalise and it is now going to take a big effort for the players to step up every week or we are mid table at best.  Big game v Ayr, obvs, and a “must win” again.  In terms of a squad, we must get behind the boys and support but they also have to do their bit; but that must include the coaches/ Robbo giving them the right shape and tactics.  

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Spot on mate 

keep on doing the same thing expecting different result is definition of insanity.

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Gregor, I admire your backing of our strikers/forwards. Here's a quick run down of yesterday's game. Make what you want out of that although it would appear that 99% of our fans believe that our strikers are not doing their job correctly.

Polworth trundled straight at keeper from 12 yards, Mckay side footed well wide from 12 yards on right side , Polworth not so clear trundler from 20 yards, White 1on1 should score with a bit of composure, Walsh good header off bar & White follow up blocked, Donaldson glanced header off post & Mckay follow up off shins, Walsh excellent goal, Polworth close free kick and another effort skied, Goal, Goal, Walsh trundler18 yards, Walsh great effort but wide. End of game.

Which part of my original post was rubbish, or was it all rubbish?

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Strikers goals per game is only a part of the true statistics to be considered. As discussed yesterday on radio - Doolan of PT is a double figure per season striker in the Premiership every season but has only 3 goals in the Championship - he hasnt suddenly become a poor player, but he can only work with the chances created. So goals per opportunity are a better reflection of player capabilities and given we seem to have spells where we create either a lot or a little its very much feast or famine and this needs drastic improvement.

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The highlights from yesterday's game are a difficult watch ... made even worse by the apparent goal over the line from Tom Walsh (first half header off underside of the crossbar) not counting. 

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Think Dorans time might be at an end up here, lost any pace he may of had and takes forever to release the ball. Hasn't been influential at all of late.

Didn't realise it was Donaldson who sold himself with a Dobbie turn for their second, not his best moment in an ict shirt...Surely it was for McKay to do that whether he was man marked or not.

Poor, weak finishing again  apart from Walsh's 2.

For some reason in the build up to our goal 3 guys went to challenge White, leaving acres of space for us to capitalise.

I'm afraid the balance of play had begun to tip in Queens favour after we went 2 up - midfield overrun the point of dropping off and our front two just don't track back,  especially Austin.

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1 hour ago, tm4tj said:

Gregor, I admire your backing of our strikers/forwards. Here's a quick run down of yesterday's game. Make what you want out of that although it would appear that 99% of our fans believe that our strikers are not doing their job correctly.

Polworth trundled straight at keeper from 12 yards, Mckay side footed well wide from 12 yards on right side , Polworth not so clear trundler from 20 yards, White 1on1 should score with a bit of composure, Walsh good header off bar & White follow up blocked, Donaldson glanced header off post & Mckay follow up off shins, Walsh excellent goal, Polworth close free kick and another effort skied, Goal, Goal, Walsh trundler18 yards, Walsh great effort but wide. End of game.

Which part of my original post was rubbish, or was it all rubbish?

I changed  it from rubbish to totally disagree so apologies from my original post

However in all of these only two opportunities featured White ,and he is the only striker , don’t think there was a one on  one for him as just checked the highlights and they wee half chances which were blocked and saved by keeper so don’t agree with a lack of composure comment.

Also when we went two up front White ,the striker ,created the goal by a well directed header to Walsh who finished with aplomb.

So in reality of all the 12 chances you quoted only 3 included White and in the only chance when he had a decent ball played to him he picked out Walsh with accuracy the other two chances were scraps. I feel your post  actually support my opinion that we need to get more decent balls to the strikers especially White who will do something with the ball as proven in last 2 games.

To constantly ridicule our top scorer is just wrong mate,  and if you have a look at his past clubs in Scotland he has been top scorer with Stirling and Livingston and is now top scorer with us , so maybe we have to create more chances for Him and not blame him for the misses of others. 

Im convinced When we play with one forward the chances are falling to non strikers who don’t have the same ability to convert .

What your analysis  points out that maybe we need to acquire a goal scoring centre midfielder and accept that  in  our  last two games  Our 2 goals were scored and created by White by decent balls into box one by Walsh and other by Tremarco.

However we cannot get away from the fact we have conceded 4 goals in these games in the latter part of each game.

So thanks for your post as hopefully it helps clarify for others where I’m coming from.

 

 

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Don’t get to many home games these days, but the text updates from caley100 are usually depressing enough and reflect the general mood on here. 

Didn’t realise amid all the doom and gloom that we’ve only won once at home this season yet 4 away, which really should have been 5 last week. So the away form is pretty much title challenger stuff.

I couldn’t help comparing yesterday’s result with the win at Firhill. Walsh scored in practically the exact same minute, and after that the players were throwing their bodies in front of everything to get the 3 points, including a penalty save. Seems like the TCS, or the lack of atmosphere, or the moaning,  just sucks the life out of the players.

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A familiar story. Virtually the same formation and starting 11 every week regardless of performance or opposition. Slow ponderous build up play. Pub league profligacy in front of goal. 3 sitting central midfielders who barely run at all. Too many players out of gas with 20 minutes to go. I don't blame the players, man for man ICT are one of the best teams in this league and played Ayr and County off the park for long spells. Robertson has recruited well for the most part. The problem is - game plan, tactics, organization, leadership, mental sharpness and fitness. The wastelines of our coaching team hardly inspire confidence. Would you hire an obese personal trainer? Fitness is almost everything at this level. Craig Brewster took a decent group of players inherited from Robbo to the next level through fitness alone. Completely disagree with those calling for a mass clear out or recruitment drive. 

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5 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

Don’t get to many home games these days, but the text updates from caley100 are usually depressing enough and reflect the general mood on here. 

Didn’t realise amid all the doom and gloom that we’ve only won once at home this season yet 4 away, which really should have been 5 last week. So the away form is pretty much title challenger stuff.

I couldn’t help comparing yesterday’s result with the win at Firhill. Walsh scored in practically the exact same minute, and after that the players were throwing their bodies in front of everything to get the 3 points, including a penalty save. Seems like the TCS, or the lack of atmosphere, or the moaning,  just sucks the life out of the players.

Maybe not the whole story but I am sure that plays a part.

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You are correct about only two. Does that not ask the question why only two. As a striker, White should be involved in more than two of these opportunities, his anticipation is not the smartest. It appears to be either him or the keeper that is going to win the ball around 2.38 into the video, unfortunately it's the keeper.

If you read through the report on here White has been given the credit he deserves for his part in the goal, but conversely he must shoulder some of the responsibility when he fails. Noticeably poor at getting off the ground in aerial challenges, slow to link sometimes, cumbersome, not a prolific finisher although he has bagged some goals, not where he should be at times.................. the list against seems longer than the list for. I'm not ridiculing White, but the evidence is fairly obvious that he is not the one. I believe Austin and Oakley are better options, but that's only my opinion and we have yet to see the best out of them due to injuries. I hope White does get the goals to give us hope, but I'm not really seeing any improvement. Again that is an observation and not a criticism. By the way, that was not an analysis, that was based on the video evidence and and what I witnessed yesterday. Sorry if it all sounds harsh, but like catchphrase, I only say what I see.

Our midfield is not backing up the strikers to the best of their ability either, Polworth as culpable as the strikers yesterday. It's left to Walsh to be a goal threat, and him not being a natural striker shows where he also missed a few, but he looks like our best option at the moment.

Our defence has seen better days when a 36 year old guy can run rings round them, mind you that's Dobbie for you. Give him half a chance and he will take it.

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45 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

Don’t get to many home games these days, but the text updates from caley100 are usually depressing enough and reflect the general mood on here. 

Didn’t realise amid all the doom and gloom that we’ve only won once at home this season yet 4 away, which really should have been 5 last week. So the away form is pretty much title challenger stuff.

I couldn’t help comparing yesterday’s result with the win at Firhill. Walsh scored in practically the exact same minute, and after that the players were throwing their bodies in front of everything to get the 3 points, including a penalty save. Seems like the TCS, or the lack of atmosphere, or the moaning,  just sucks the life out of the players.

100% correct compare and contrast the support away from home to the home support is massive in difference.

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35 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

You are correct about only two. Does that not ask the question why only two. As a striker, White should be involved in more than two of these opportunities, his anticipation is not the smartest. Ie appears to be either him or the keeper that is going to win the ball around 2.38 into the video, unfortunately it's the keeper.

If you read through the report on here White has been given the credit he deserves for his part in the goal, but conversely he must shoulder some of the responsibility when he fails. Noticeably poor at getting off the ground in aerial challenges, slow to link sometimes, cumbersome, not a prolific finisher although he has bagged some goals, not where he should be at times.................. the list against seems longer than the list for. I'm not ridiculing White, but the evidence is fairly obvious that he is not the one. I believe Austin and Oakley are better options, but that's only my opinion and we have yet to see the best out of them due to injuries. I hope White does get the goals to give us hope, but I'm not really seeing any improvement. Again that is an observation and not a criticism. By the way, that was not an analysis, that was based on the video evidence and and what I witnessed yesterday. Sorry if it all sounds harsh, but like catchphrase, I only say what I see.

Our midfield is not backing up the strikers to the best of their ability either, Polworth as culpable as the strikers yesterday. It's left to Walsh to be a goal threat, and him not being a natural striker shows where he also missed a few, but he looks like our best option at the moment.

Our defence has seen better days when a 36 year old guy can run rings round them, mind you that's Dobbie for you. Give him half a chance and he will take it.

Well if you can’t see that White got off the ground yesterday to head a pass to Walsh Then we will just have to agree to disagree.Does  he win every High ball no he doesn’t but will win his share.

He is a good striker and his stats back that up .But why let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

You say you hope white gets the goals , he has scored 9 goals from a total of 15 starts including 5 from 10 league starts , I really think you are wanting Ronaldo  or Messi up front 😂 

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Also thought Walsh was good today and could go on to be a major player for us in the future. At times Polworth seemed to be up for the challenge then  loose interest and was needlessly booked for kicking the ball away.  

Brad Mckay was exploiting space down the right hand side of the pitch until we scored then went deep into our own half allowing QoS space to attack

We were unlucky on a couple of accasions hitting the woodwork but seemed to have no idea regarding changing things to try to create chances.  

Maybe its time for fresh ideas and a  clear out of backroom staff, too many explayers taking a living from ICT with no end product.

Also should we consider ditching the development/youth teams,  there is not much coming through and the money coild be spent on a striker. Only Polworth in the current line up has come through and and any decent players have to be sold for little or no money.

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1 hour ago, Kingsmills said:

Maybe not the whole story but I am sure that plays a part.

Said same to several folk yesterday. Its a vicious circle. The more mistakes on field the more negativity. However the lack of confidence on the field not helped by the negativity on it. 

The only way I can see to stop it though is for the players to rise above it and show us what they can do? One home win this season is not good enough! 

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7 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Said same to several folk yesterday. Its a vicious circle. The more mistakes on field the more negativity. However the lack of confidence on the field not helped by the negativity on it. 

The only way I can see to stop it though is for the players to rise above it and show us what they can do? One home win this season is not good enough! 

It was very quiet up until Walsh scored then I felt people were starting to waken up and actually enjoy the game, until it all went pear shaped. This is the problem though, the players give us little to get excited about, if we were charging into goal scoring positions and testing the keeper, hitting the post or having shot after shot blocked... Whatever... The crowd would get lively. Its the fact that any possession is boring and slow and any advance at goal is snuffed out without any real danger 

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18 hours ago, MuirtownJaggy said:

What frustrates me most, is that there is not a huge deal of difference in all the Champioship teams in terms of player quality. Each team ( as results have shown) can beat each other on any given day. Our players are no better or worse than the rest of the league. Where I think we continue to become undone, is our set up and tactics. Today and last week were a good example. Played better and conspire to lose. I don’t see any management injection that changes in response to the game to grind out a win. All I see is stick with the same pedestrian tactics and hope for the best. All players can do better (some more than others) but likely they are only following a set of instructions and set prices from training. I think it’s the training and tactics that need to change !!!!!!! What do they see that we can’t ????? And vice versa ?????

Agree 100%

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18 hours ago, forresjags said:

We have at least 5 of the management team sitting in the dug out , yet not one of them can spot the obvious that as soon as we score ,we are at are most vulnerable . Do they try and change the game,  maybe go for a second, No chance,we defend on our 18 yard conceding possession trying to run down the clock. Then with 89 minutes gone and the game slipping away they then decide to make a double substitution.

 

That was the disappointing thing for me.  We always looked more likely to score and having got the goal we should have continued to do what we had been doing relatively well.  In his post match interview Barry Wilson acknowledged that, but what was worrying was that he said the players had often dropped too deep after scoring this season.  If that is a known problem then why did it happen again yesterday?  Where was the leadership on the park to keep the focus and drive?  And why weren't the coaching staff on their feet bawling instructions to the players to push up?  

We absolutely threw away 3 points yesterday and handed them on a plate to one of our closest rivals.  The tragedy is that whilst we didn't play with the intensity we saw against County, we still played pretty well on the whole and created plenty of chances.  We were unlucky to hit the woodwork twice and could have won the game comfortably.  In his interview, Naismith acknowledged they were lucky to win but also said that his side played as well as they have for several weeks.  That must be an acknowledgement that we were pretty decent.  It's a hard one to take but that might just mean that lessons will be learnt this time.

This season in the league, we have conceded 7 goals in the last 10 minutes of games but have scored only 2.  However,  we are averaging 1.9 points per game when we score first whilst our opponents are averaging just 1.3 points per game when they score first.  That is an encouraging if, on the face of it, a rather contradictory statistic.   This seems to suggest that we are generally pretty good at fighting back when behind and have the capability to capitalise on taking an early lead, but that we have rather poor game management towards the end of games. The net effect of the late goals is that we have 6 less points than we would have had if the final score had been what it was on 80 minutes. Clearly our opponents have correspondingly more.  This is clearly a key area for the management team to work on.

 

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Gregor, he never jumped, he nodded it back without getting off the ground. Fact not fiction. Matters not, he did head the ball into the box for Walsh.

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8 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

Gregor, he never jumped, he nodded it back without getting off the ground. Fact not fiction. Matters not, he did head the ball into the box for Walsh.

 

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Does  he win every High ball no he doesn’t but will win his share.

His share? I think you need more of your stats to prove this  😀  At 6’4” he’s usually the biggest man on the pitch. Wyness was only 5’10” and won far more headers. Big Jordan can’t jump. You must be his mate.

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I will say one thing regarding White yesterday - he had the ball played up to him about 6 or 7 times in the first half, medium height and pace in to the body, just needs a cushion touch then a turn & pass...this was accomplished  0 times.

Obviously playing back to goal isn't his forte.

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25 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

It's a hard one to take but that might just mean that lessons will be learnt this time.

I doubt it though. It often feels like groundhog day watching us at home this season. 

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2 hours ago, TheMantis said:

 

His share? I think you need more of your stats to prove this  😀  At 6’4” he’s usually the biggest man on the pitch. Wyness was only 5’10” and won far more headers. Big Jordan can’t jump. You must be his mate.

That old chestnut 😂 

No mate not his mate just a guy who likes debate and I also like to look at things from different POV to be the devils advocate if you like. I don’t like being a sheep and just following other people’s opinions for the sake of it especially if I think views are so out of kilter to what I’m watching.Different POV makes people think about what they say , oh and I’m also a lover of stats because they kinda cut through the haze of opinions.

Edited by Gregor

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2 hours ago, TheMantis said:

You must be his mate.

Or one of his many family members who've been having a go at caley fans on social media.

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1 hour ago, Gregor said:

That old chestnut 😂 

No mate not his mate just a guy who likes debate and I also like to look at things from different POV to be the devils advocate if you like. I don’t like being a sheep and just following other people’s opinions for the sake of it especially if I think views are so out of kilter to what I’m watching.Different POV makes people think about what they say , oh and I’m also a lover of stats because they kinda cut through the haze of opinions.

 

On 12/18/2018 at 7:13 PM, TheMantis said:

 

Now, back to the stats. You're trying too hard in repeatedly saying that the strikers are "decent". They're not, not at the level we aspire to be anyway. Bizarrely you've quoted starts/goals rather than the other way around.

You're implying that our 3 are somehow just behind Shankland etc. The fact is there is a huge gap between the best strikers and the rest. If you take White as 8/13 = 0.62, then Shankland is 18/16 = 1.13 (league only). That's double the strike rate. If you include Cup games it's 1.26.

White is 26 and has had 10 clubs. His most significant spell by far was 2 years at Livi where he scored 21 in 69. At 3 of his other clubs he scored no goals at all. For a big man he can't jump, and his second touch is a tackle. 

I don't know if you're old enough to remember Wyness, Ritchie, Wilson, Bingham, Hislop, Xausa, Christie. All players challenging at the top of the second tier and coveted by rival clubs. And later on, Hayes, Foran, Rooney. If any of the current 3 are transferred/loaned in the window it will be to Lg 1 clubs. I realise we are where we are though.

 

3 hours ago, TheMantis said:

 

His share? I think you need more of your stats to prove this  😀  At 6’4” he’s usually the biggest man on the pitch. Wyness was only 5’10” and won far more headers. Big Jordan can’t jump. You must be his mate.

I’m not buying all this, you say you like debate and then you imply that people who disagree with you are sheep while giving the old Devil’s Advocate excuse  😂

I gave you plenty of facts and figures to debate with in these two posts but you’re not offering much to refute them  except deflection. In all seriousness, how long have you been supporting ICT? You joined the forum in March which is not a crime in itself, but if you’re going to claim any credibility then you have to be able to refer back to happier days and better players which is why most people are peed off by where we are.

I regret if big Jordan is daft enough to listen to gossip on here. I always encourage the players at games but on a forum they’re fair game.

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I personally thought we started the first half reasonably well, I saw atleast two chances which should have been put away with the header a few feet out going traight at Alan Martin and a scramble off the line. I noticed we wanted to pass to a player with 3 defenders around them rather than to draw them out wide, which everyone sitting around me could see wasnt working, yet we kept doing it. Queens looked to be trying the long ball to their strikers in each counter attack which we got away with, each time they came up they looked dangerous.

Second half looked almost like Robbo told the lads that the passing to feet infront of goal wasnt working so we should cut down the left wing. On atleast 3 occasions however, I could see players bunched on the left with Brad MacKay standing on the right wing at the halfway line with acres of space to carry it up but no one making that pass.

Everytime we gave away possession, Queens would came up the park and it looked like we would panic and if we did clear we seemed to run halfway up the park and stop. Queen players had plenty of time to come back and organise themselves and we would just seem to pass back and try up the left wing again.

We really need to work on counter attacks, the lads appear to not have have any confidenece to carry it up the park and appear to get halfway and stop and passing back.

Barry Wilson said we got our goal and sat in which was bad, but I feel like the reaction of the players when they equalised was worse, everyones heads went down and then they literally just tot down the side and slot the ball in the bottom left, it looked like everyone was static and just watched.

We can't only blame the strikers now, there are 8 other players on the pitch and none of them appeared to be stepping up and getting us going, we looked clueless, leaderless and just awful.

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