Admin by Oct 16th - It's here now!

[RiG]

9 hours ago, ScottMacScott said:

Where can you read if you don't have subs to the P&J?

Part 1 - https://archive.is/xTktB
Part 2 - https://archive.is/jWHQW
Part 3 - https://archive.is/OO6MR
 

Quote

A third recalled Gardiner inviting players over to speak to him so he could tell them about his grand plans. The player said: “It was all about him. Everything that was good about the club, he wanted people to know it was coming from him. “He’d call people over and show us stuff on laptops. We didn’t really care, we just wanted to get out and play football and he’s showing us 3D models of a hotel. “People just thought it was weird and a bit far-fetched.”

Quote

Gardiner said he was “proud” of his football career and has “the friends and respect to show for it”. He added: “I take no interest in the views of disgruntled people who ultimately failed at their jobs.

   

[robbo1985]

Just booked tickets to see a French Ligue 1 game next year, the home side currently in the champions league.  Tickets were available from ten euros.  This is approximately half the price of what it costs to see a match at the Caledonian Stadium in the third tier of Scottish football.

On this basis it's unsurprising that our attendances are so low.  Lower ticket prices would hopefully attract more fans back = more pies, drinks, half-time draw tickets, merchandise bought.  I really hope that if we still have a club to support next year, this is looked at to build a more sustainable fanbase.

[+old caley girl]

1 hour ago, robbo1985 said:

Just booked tickets to see a French Ligue 1 game next year, the home side currently in the champions league.  Tickets were available from ten euros.  This is approximately half the price of what it costs to see a match at the Caledonian Stadium in the third tier of Scottish football.

On this basis it's unsurprising that our attendances are so low.  Lower ticket prices would hopefully attract more fans back = more pies, drinks, half-time draw tickets, merchandise bought.  I really hope that if we still have a club to support next year, this is looked at to build a more sustainable fanbase.

I'm not sure it does though? Initiatives in the past like that haven't worked. I think a good amount of folk might return if the product on the park improved? Maybe just me 

[Satan]

We'll be doing free entry at halftime the way things are going.

[Charles Bannerman]

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

That’s my point though. He seems to be conflating different timelines and events to suit his side of the narrative. 

I have read all three parts of the article and his responses or rebuttals on any of the points are either downright disrespectful, churlish or sound like a vat full of sour grapes. 

He can say whatever he likes but if we do enter administration then it would seem the vast majority of supporters will put the blame firmly at his feet. 

 

I think I maybe didn’t do a very good job of saying that I was agreeing with your assessment. It seems that, regarding the period between when his “resignation” was announced and when Savage finally booted his arse out the door - about 9 weeks - he’s been trying to play at Schroedinger’s Cat… simultaneously existing and not existing as he sees fit.

I am in no doubt that a lot more than the supporters would put the blame at his feet, which is why I would relish court action where the very best brief that Alan Savage could pay for would very publicly expose the situation in all its awfulness.

[RiG]

1 hour ago, robbo1985 said:

Just booked tickets to see a French Ligue 1 game next year, the home side currently in the champions league.  Tickets were available from ten euros.  This is approximately half the price of what it costs to see a match at the Caledonian Stadium in the third tier of Scottish football.

On this basis it's unsurprising that our attendances are so low.  Lower ticket prices would hopefully attract more fans back = more pies, drinks, half-time draw tickets, merchandise bought.  I really hope that if we still have a club to support next year, this is looked at to build a more sustainable fanbase.

I mean it's hardly surprising then that they can offer tickets for €10 then. I doubt ICT have sufficient additional income streams to allow them to essentially subsidise tickets. The majority of our income stems from ticket sales and any reduction in price has, in the past, never been offset by the increase in footfall to make up for it.

[bdu98196]

A Highland businessman's £1.2m bid to save Inverness Caledonian Thistle from administration has been rejected by the club. (Scottish Sun)

 

[Starscape]

1 hour ago, Satan said:

We'll be doing free entry at halftime the way things are going.

Jeez, I'd forgotten that was a regular thing when growing up.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

2 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

... I would relish court action where the very best brief that Alan Savage could pay for would very publicly expose the situation in all its awfulness.

I am sure that most of us would agree with you there, Charles, but I can't see it happening.

Gardiner, I think, is unlikely to want to incur the costs of suing Savage and the club, given that there is no guarantee of winning.  (NB, like economists and game theorists, I am assuming that he will act rationally.)

Savage, too, won't want to spend any more money if he can avoid it.  Even if he and the club won, what would be the chances of recovering their costs from Gardiner?

I suspect we may have a bluffing game here, with Gardiner making noises in the hope that Savage concludes that it would be cheaper to pay him off than to see him in court.

[Charles Bannerman]

5 hours ago, RiG said:

Part 1 - https://archive.is/xTktB
Part 2 - https://archive.is/jWHQW
Part 3 - https://archive.is/OO6MR
 

   

If the Immortal One was still with us, I wonder what his professional take on Gardiner would have been?

[Duke of Inverness]

4 hours ago, old caley girl said:

I'm not sure it does though? Initiatives in the past like that haven't worked. I think a good amount of folk might return if the product on the park improved? Maybe just me 

Undoubtedly. Can't remember last time I was excited to be going to an ICT game tbh.

When I have 'bothered' recently I've had to force myself to go, only to 'regret' going about 10 minutes into each game.

I didn't donate to the GFM page as I don't see why I should pay for other peoples' mistakes and awful business sense. 

I buy tickets, coffee, merch etc and that's all a fan should really be asked to pay imo. 

ICT isn't about football anymore to me. It's more like watching an old relative who you love dying a long, slow, self inflicted painful death. 

It's also so negative and energy sapping.

Sad times!!

Edited October 16, 2024 by Duke of Inverness

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Just now, Duke of Inverness said:

ICT isn't about football anymore to me. It's more like watching an old relative who you love dying a long, slow, self inflicted painful death. 

But as you have seen, there are many compassionate people who are doing everything in their power to help despite personal failings because they highlight the positive memories of time with that body.

[Duke of Inverness]

23 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

But as you have seen, there are many compassionate people who are doing everything in their power to help despite personal failings because they highlight the positive memories of time with that body.

Fair enough, I respect your point of view and that side of it.

[Scotty]

6 hours ago, robbo1985 said:

Just booked tickets to see a French Ligue 1 game next year, the home side currently in the champions league.  Tickets were available from ten euros.  This is approximately half the price of what it costs to see a match at the Caledonian Stadium in the third tier of Scottish football.

On this basis it's unsurprising that our attendances are so low.  Lower ticket prices would hopefully attract more fans back = more pies, drinks, half-time draw tickets, merchandise bought.  I really hope that if we still have a club to support next year, this is looked at to build a more sustainable fanbase.

I have season tickets at Toronto FC. I pay about CAD$450 per ticket per year which is about £250. (These are the 'cheap seats' in the supporters' sections). They dynamically price the individual tickets at 3 different levels so the face value on the ticket can be anything from about $15 to $50, but it averages out to about $28 per game (£15) that I actually pay per ticket. For that I get to see the likes of Lorenzo Insigne and Federico Bernardeschi in a TFC shirt each week (when LI is not injured!). I also took my boy to the recent Miami game where he got to see Messi, Suarez, Busquets et all and even a rare cameo from the aforementioned Insigne. Think there was around 32,000 at that game (capacity) and some people paid thousands of dollars for a ticket, but season ticket holders happily went along for their $30 bucks!  

The big difference though is the sheer scale of the finances. Toronto FC are financed by a mega-rich corporation called MLSE that could basically print its own money if it wanted to. Fans say it means "Making Lose Seem Easy" but despite on-field performance issues at all their teams, off the field Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment own TFC (MLS), Toronto Raptors (NBA), Toronto Maple Leafs (NHL), and others, and just tweaked their ownership group where Rogers Communication - the largest cable TV operation in Canada - bought out one of the other partners (Bell), and brought the Toronto Blue Jays (MLB) into the ownership portfolio so they now own every professional team in Toronto. They also own pretty much all the major sports arenas in the city as well as concert arenas and are in the process of building a new open air concert venue (50,000 capacity) in the north of the city (right next to TFC's state of the art training facilities) where Oasis will play next year.  Their sports teams generate TV revenue that goes right to the owners. They own all the arenas so make a killing out of concessions and renting them out for other events. They are also masters of merchandising and marketing so lots of revenue flow. Not sure about the other sports, but I know Lorenzo Insigne was the highest paid player in Major League Soccer until Messi came along. I think Messi gets in the US$20m range plus all sorts of commission from Apple TV and Adidas to take it up to a reputed $60m per year, but Inisgne is on US$15m a year and Bernardeschi on $7m ... crazy money we can only dream of personally, or for ICT.  [source: here]. 

On the flip side - my son wants to go to Germany on one of our next trips because he likes Bayern Munich (because of Alphonso Davies and Harry Kane). Looking online, their tickets are almost impossible to buy unless you are a member of the club, but where you can, they seem pretty pricey.

 

ICT cant match either of those teams. I think we could give away all our tickets for free and still not fill the ground. Some economist needs to crunch the numbers and see where the sweet spot is between ticket price and revenue. 1000 people at £20 is better than 1500 at £10 unless you can somehow get those 1500 to all spend the other £10 (and more) on merchandise, drink or other items that ICT get the money from. The quality of the concessions at the stadium also leaves a bit to be desired! burnt sausage rolls from the one pie window is pretty restrictive.

People are likely sick of me mentioning TFC but its where I get my footie fix on a regular basis and however bad the team play, the owners are masters at squeezing every dollar out of you that they can so perhaps we can take something that works here, reduce the scale and make it work for ICT.   At TFC most of the concessions rent their spaces and the club makes money regardless of whether they make a profit or not. There must be 200+ different concession stands to choose from at BMO Field.  The ST has given the sports bar a lick of paint and a bit of a refresh which is great. Things like this to enhance the matchday experience are a good place to start. Small incremental improvements are all we can do at this stage. Could we replace the really bad sausage roll window with something better? Maybe food trucks in the open corners? We charge them a flat fee, initially a low amount, but review regularly based on the level of crowds we get. If the average gate goes up, then within the contract it is stipulated that so does the concession fee as there are more potential customers. Fans win as competing outlets will usually try to either cook the best food or have reasonable prices and there may be more variety than carbon-dated sausage rolls and pies.

If we can find a way to lease/rent out certain aspects of the matchday experience then this - to me - is the way to go. Season tickets are effectively a lease as the STH lease their seats for a year and the club gets the money whether you go or not. Concession rental as suggested is another. Are there other areas of the matchday that could be monetised? Could the 50-50 draw go online? At TFC I can use their app at home to buy a 50-50 ticket even if not going to the match. Does our ticketing system have any way to do something like this? Just throwing out a few ideas - which may or may not be realistic - but at worst, I just get told its a silly idea.          

 

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I think I maybe didn’t do a very good job of saying that I was agreeing with your assessment. It seems that, regarding the period between when his “resignation” was announced and when Savage finally booted his arse out the door - about 9 weeks - he’s been trying to play at Schroedinger’s Cat… simultaneously existing and not existing as he sees fit.

I am in no doubt that a lot more than the supporters would put the blame at his feet, which is why I would relish court action where the very best brief that Alan Savage could pay for would very publicly expose the situation in all its awfulness.

The scary part is what he did, or could have done, in those 9 weeks. The difference between the Daily Mail and the P&J articles for me is that one sounds like one person telling the world he is perfect and hard done by, whereas the other, while anonymised for obvious reasons, rings true on several different levels. In my mind's eye, I can see or hear the players or club employees saying all of these things as I read the article. I know which publication I believe more, even if there may be elements of truth in both. 

 

[big cherly]

‘Some economist needs to crunch the numbers and see where the sweet spot.’

Yes to being sick of hearing how great and rich TFC are. The point however is not lost on a proper and professional appraisal for a long term strategy to increase (double /treble) the fan base. 
We WILL come out the other side of Admin or a new owner, and once that is settled we have to have a grown up strategy for increasing  greatly the fan base, Roy Magregor did it with County, so it can be done if we structure it properly. 
I suggest we invest in looking at small clubs of modest means that have succeeded in increasing there fans by a marked number. Visit and learn lessons (Scandinavian ideally as the weather is a key factor) The stadium is a big problem in my opinion and nothing should be off the table!! 
tuppence worth!! 

Edited October 16, 2024 by big cherly

[Scotty]

7 minutes ago, big cherly said:

‘Some economist needs to crunch the numbers and see where the sweet spot.’

Yes to being sick of hearing how great and rich TFC are. The point however is not lost on a proper and professional appraise on a long term strategy to increase (double /treble) the fan base. 
We WILL come out the other side of Admin or a new owner, and once that is settled we have to have a grown up strategy for increasing  greatly the fan base, Roy Magregor did it with County, so it can be done if we structure it properly. 
I suggest we invest in looking at small clubs of modest means that have succeeded in increasing there fans by a marked number. Visit and learn lessons (Scandinavian ideally as the weather is a key factor) The stadium is a big problem in my option and nothing should be off the table!! 
tuppence worth!! 

Rich maybe ... but not great since 2017! More lows than highs over their 18-year existence so far. 

Agree with you on the Scandinavian inspiration. Lots of smaller clubs there that seem to have done very well with meagre resources and other challenges. Iceland also completely overhauled their football organisation but that might be more suited to looking at the national setup than a single club. Whatever we do needs to be methodical, sustainable and most importantly community focused so we can at least try to get the city back on board.   

[Yngwie]

3 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

If the Immortal One was still with us, I wonder what his professional take on Gardiner would have been?

This bit was particularly interesting. You can actually feel the seethe!

“He responded with a lengthy statement that was written in red and drifted into block capitals.”

[ictbob]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/6605880/administration-threatened-caley-thistle-to-meet-mystery-highland-investor-after-talks-with-anders-holch-polvsen/

[Duke of Inverness]

1 minute ago, ictbob said:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/6605880/administration-threatened-caley-thistle-to-meet-mystery-highland-investor-after-talks-with-anders-holch-polvsen/

These kinks only work for folk who subscribe to P and J.

I don't

[ictbob]

4 minutes ago, Duke of Inverness said:

These kinks only work for folk who subscribe to P and J.

I don't

True but the headline names one of them.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

4 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

If the Immortal One was still with us, I wonder what his professional take on Gardiner would have been?

That's easy!

[caley100]

12 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

That's easy!

Yep... don't forget to add this one  

Johndo would have been very busy on this site.

[Scotty]

27 minutes ago, Duke of Inverness said:

These kinks only work for folk who subscribe to P and J.

I don't

paywallreader.com 

 

29 minutes ago, ictbob said:

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/inverness-caledonian-thistle/6605880/administration-threatened-caley-thistle-to-meet-mystery-highland-investor-after-talks-with-anders-holch-polvsen/

Would have been great if Anders Polvsen was interested. We could make him a multi-millionaire!  Don't think any conflict with Scandinavian team really exists otherwise Red Bull would not be allowed to own Salzburg and Leipzig and the group that owns Man City would not be allowed to own them plus Palermo, Troyes, Lommel, and Girona.  The idea of "Multi-Club Ownership" (MCO) is not anything new and is gathering pace. 

 

[Scotty]

4 minutes ago, caley100 said:

Yep... don't forget to add this one  

Johndo would have been very busy on this site.

... and this year's panto would definitely have its classic villain. 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

Just now, Scotty said:

... and this year's panto would definitely have its classic villain. 

Oh no it wouldn't!