Morton V ICT Match Night Thread.

[RiG]

Christie dropped Rankin at the start of the season. Rankin then bought a house in the central belt, only for Brewster to come in and put him back in the squad. Brewster than tried to persuade Rankin to stay, however Rankin already had his house and wanted to leave.

Rankin hadn't bought a house at that point. He was told by Brewster that he didn't figure in his plans and then made a move to sell his house in the North. At the same time he was brought into the team and turned in some fine performances. Far from persuading Rankin to stay ICT and Brewster now had a form player who they could command a higher fee for hence the numerous bids from Falkirk and St. Mirren but ICT kept wanting more and more for John.

[chris123]

Christie dropped Rankin at the start of the season. Rankin then bought a house in the central belt, only for Brewster to come in and put him back in the squad. Brewster than tried to persuade Rankin to stay, however Rankin already had his house and wanted to leave.

Rankin hadn't bought a house at that point. He was told by Brewster that he didn't figure in his plans and then made a move to sell his house in the North. At the same time he was brought into the team and turned in some fine performances. Far from persuading Rankin to stay ICT and Brewster now had a form player who they could command a higher fee for hence the numerous bids from Falkirk and St. Mirren but ICT kept wanting more and more for John.

My mistake.

However, It was Christie that dropped him in the first place, and I stand by my original point, when a team like Hibs come calling with 100k, neither the club, nor Rankin himself, were ever going to say no.

[PullMyFinger]

Christie dropped Rankin at the start of the season. Rankin then bought a house in the central belt, only for Brewster to come in and put him back in the squad. Brewster than tried to persuade Rankin to stay, however Rankin already had his house and wanted to leave.

Rankin hadn't bought a house at that point. He was told by Brewster that he didn't figure in his plans and then made a move to sell his house in the North. At the same time he was brought into the team and turned in some fine performances. Far from persuading Rankin to stay ICT and Brewster now had a form player who they could command a higher fee for hence the numerous bids from Falkirk and St. Mirren but ICT kept wanting more and more for John.

My mistake.

However, It was Christie that dropped him in the first place, and I stand by my original point, when a team like Hibs come calling with 100k, neither the club, nor Rankin himself, were ever going to say no.

He shouldn't have been available IMHO.

RIG for some reason I must've blanked out this years 2nd division champions. :thumb04:

[Glebeict]

Don't get me started on how dumb a move that was . Why would any coach or manager give one of their best players

away to a team in the same division? It is beyond any logic . Where is that brickwall Smiley ?

[chris123]

Don't get me started on how dumb a move that was . Why would any coach or manager give one of their best players

away to a team in the same division? It is beyond any logic . Where is that brickwall Smiley ?

Our club are not in a position to turn down 100k for (in the grand scheme of things) average football players.

[Kingsmills]

I wouldn't call Rankin average.

[PullMyFinger]

I wouldn't call Rankin average.

He even made Brewster look good FFS.

[Alex MacLeod]

When did Charlie Christie 'drop' John Rankin. John played throughout his first season with us, was benched for the last two games to allow Paatelianen a start. Nothing more sinister than that. John also started in three of the four games Charlie was in charge at the start of 07-08 season. So how anyone can suggest he was out of favour I dont know.

My understanding is that JR requested a transfer after Brewster came in and was told that if he found a club who'd pay the right price he was free to go. JR was started on a few occassions under Brew but had no intention of staying. His ambitions were greater than he could expect at ICT and expressions of 'I deserve as much as he gets' may have helped his decision.

The question people should be asking is not to do with Brews tactics or about what he has to work with but more why is it that a team of players who have shown what they are capable of against the top opposition are not motivated enough to perform at any other time. Why does there appear to be a dressing room split? Where's the camaraderie gone? What is the underlying cause of unrest among playing staff?

Oh! and according to Chick Young on radio last night Barry is now a coach at the club.

[PullMyFinger]

Oh! and according to Chick Young on radio last night Barry is now a coach at the club.

Must be true then, eh?

[CaleyP]

was at the game last night, first half we were pretty poor, morton in fact looked the better team. second half started off the same until brew made a change and Vigurs came on...Vigurs's class no doubt changed the game in caley's favour, between Vigurs and Imirie was the reason we managed to win that game. well done to them both, as for the rest of the team only Blackie, Rooney and Wood get pass marks. Cowie unfortunately is a shodow of himself last season. no point mentioning any other players as they were pretty poor. going to need to raise our game a whole lot more if we want success in any campaign we're involved in.

Imirie MOM Vigurs in a class of his own when he came on.

[Bush]

was at the game last night, first half we were pretty poor, morton in fact looked the better team. second half started off the same until brew made a change and Vigurs came on...Vigurs's class no doubt changed the game in caley's favour, between Vigurs and Imirie was the reason we managed to win that game. well done to them both, as for the rest of the team only Blackie, Rooney and Wood get pass marks. Cowie unfortunately is a shodow of himself last season. no point mentioning any other players as they were pretty poor. going to need to raise our game a whole lot more if we want success in any campaign we're involved in.

Imirie MOM Vigurs in a class of his own when he came on.

I wasn't at the game and am interested in the opinions of those that were. Given that the players were pretty poor for the first hour and Brewster then made changes which improved the performance (and subsequently attained the win), I really can't understand why some fans are calling for Brew's head!!

I think most fans would agree that the basis of the squad is about as good as we can get (given finances, geographical constraints, etc, etc) so what is the beef with Brewster? The starting line up was reasonable and pretty much as expected, it wasn't working, Brew changed it and we eventually got the result! Hardly a sacking offence is it!?

I don't wish to defend Brew blindly, but I do think that some fans have completely unreasonable expectations of what this club is actually capable of. And before anyone says "beating Morton in normal time" - I accept that, but...... the quality of players that we have will lead to inconsistency of performance at times. The important things is how the manager, and the players, react to that. Ultimately, the response last night was what was required!

[The Mantis]

People who think taking on Brew was a bad move (like me) are not just coming out of the woodwork because of the result last night. I don't see where anybody on the thread is saying they've suddenly been converted by one game.

Although we overcame Morton after 120 mins, we were gash for an hour of that, and were within 11 minutes of going out. Against Arbroath we went even closer. We never looked like scoring on Saturday either and it's been a similar story for most of the season. The football has been dire.

If Brew keeps us up and builds on that next year, fair enough. But if we're bottom at Christmas, don't say you weren't warned.

[alternative maryhill]

was at the game last night, first half we were pretty poor, morton in fact looked the better team. second half started off the same until brew made a change and Vigurs came on...Vigurs's class no doubt changed the game in caley's favour, between Vigurs and Imirie was the reason we managed to win that game. well done to them both, as for the rest of the team only Blackie, Rooney and Wood get pass marks. Cowie unfortunately is a shodow of himself last season. no point mentioning any other players as they were pretty poor. going to need to raise our game a whole lot more if we want success in any campaign we're involved in.

Imirie MOM Vigurs in a class of his own when he came on.

I wasn't at the game and am interested in the opinions of those that were. Given that the players were pretty poor for the first hour and Brewster then made changes which improved the performance (and subsequently attained the win), I really can't understand why some fans are calling for Brew's head!!

I think most fans would agree that the basis of the squad is about as good as we can get (given finances, geographical constraints, etc, etc) so what is the beef with Brewster? The starting line up was reasonable and pretty much as expected, it wasn't working, Brew changed it and we eventually got the result! Hardly a sacking offence is it!?

I don't wish to defend Brew blindly, but I do think that some fans have completely unreasonable expectations of what this club is actually capable of. And before anyone says "beating Morton in normal time" - I accept that, but...... the quality of players that we have will lead to inconsistency of performance at times. The important things is how the manager, and the players, react to that. Ultimately, the response last night was what was required!

I'm not calling for Brewster's head, but people's dissatisfaction is not purely down to unrealistic expectations. There are issues that should be within Brewster's control that need addressing:

• Why is the tendency to revert to the long ball as soon as we are under pressure not stamped upon by the coaches? Clearly the team don't start out intending to play that way, as the Aberdeen, Falkirk, Hearts and Morton games all showed, but it becomes our default tactic as soon as we start chasing a game, and we have had no success using it.
  
• Why has Ian Black, our outstanding player so far this season, been the midfielder to be sacrificed when Brewster decides to make substitutions?
  
• Why was the experienced central defender we still obviously need not made more of a priority over the summer, rather than a last-ditch token bid for James McPake being made on August 31st?
  
• Why does the team so often appear unmotivated and lethargic in SPL games (e.g. Hamilton, St Mirren, from what has been said by the home-based supporters) when our survival is at stake?
  
• If there are, as people keep mooting, divisions in the dressing room, are any steps being taken to resolve these?
  

I'm aware that certain things, such as Imrie's and Duff's inconsistency, may be down to age and lack of experience, that players like Cowie will inevitably go off the boil from time to time, that errors will always be made in games, and that in these circumstances our relatively modest resources will not always be able to compensate for them; and I also accept that Brewster probably couldn't be expected to resolve all of the things I listed above; but the supporters do have a right to question whether they are being addressed at all.

Edited September 24, 2008 by alternative maryhill

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The term "lost the dressing room" is used in football (soccer) to describe the situation where a manager of a club is seemingly very near to being sacked. The team will invariably be struggling on the pitch, the manager will be under a lot of pressure and the signs may be that he has lost the faith and respect of his players.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_the_dressing_room"

At the present time the future of Brew is highly dependent on results and is also dependent on the players busting a gut for him. He has to lose faith in his favourites and keep the same team and tactics.

Sounds like last night was as much a reprieve and a relief as a victory.

Given the run of games coming up he is - to coin another well known phrase - on a very sticky wicket.

[RossP]

was at the game last night, first half we were pretty poor, morton in fact looked the better team. second half started off the same until brew made a change and Vigurs came on...Vigurs's class no doubt changed the game in caley's favour, between Vigurs and Imirie was the reason we managed to win that game. well done to them both, as for the rest of the team only Blackie, Rooney and Wood get pass marks. Cowie unfortunately is a shodow of himself last season. no point mentioning any other players as they were pretty poor. going to need to raise our game a whole lot more if we want success in any campaign we're involved in.

Imirie MOM Vigurs in a class of his own when he came on.

I wasn't at the game and am interested in the opinions of those that were. Given that the players were pretty poor for the first hour and Brewster then made changes which improved the performance (and subsequently attained the win), I really can't understand why some fans are calling for Brew's head!!

I think most fans would agree that the basis of the squad is about as good as we can get (given finances, geographical constraints, etc, etc) so what is the beef with Brewster? The starting line up was reasonable and pretty much as expected, it wasn't working, Brew changed it and we eventually got the result! Hardly a sacking offence is it!?

I don't wish to defend Brew blindly, but I do think that some fans have completely unreasonable expectations of what this club is actually capable of. And before anyone says "beating Morton in normal time" - I accept that, but...... the quality of players that we have will lead to inconsistency of performance at times. The important things is how the manager, and the players, react to that. Ultimately, the response last night was what was required!

I don't need to post anymore, as Bush puts my feelings into words much better than I.

Keep it up!

:015: :D :thumb04: :018: ;)

[Bush]

The term "lost the dressing room" is used in football (soccer) to describe the situation where a manager of a club is seemingly very near to being sacked. The team will invariably be struggling on the pitch, the manager will be under a lot of pressure and the signs may be that he has lost the faith and respect of his players.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_the_dressing_room"

At the present time the future of Brew is highly dependent on results and is also dependent on the players busting a gut for him. He has to lose faith in his favourites and keep the same team and tactics.

Sounds like last night was as much a reprieve and a relief as a victory.

Given the run of games coming up he is - to coin another well known phrase - on a very sticky wicket.

Brew's future is always, like any manager, dependant on results and the players busting a gut for him (and for themselves for that matter). I understand your comment about losing faith in his favourites, but he has been criticised by members of this forum for doing that and relying too much on the youngsters. It just goes to demonstrate that opinion can vary among the supporters who all want the same thing - success - so there will almost always be a proportion of the fanbase that disagree with something Brew does!

I don't see why last night was a repreive (I'm not aware that Brew's job was partcularly under threat prior to the game) although there is no doubt that the result was a relief for all staff and supporters alike.

The forthcoming games are certainly a challenge, but I don't see why he's on a sticky wicket, anymore than he normally is! A run of bad results will always increase pressure, but lets not add to the burden by piling the pressure on before it's even got to the point of being due.

The bottom line is that we're through to the QF's of the CIS Cup and we're mid-table in the league. I'm sure we'd all have taken that before the season started. If (and some will think when) we lose the next 4/5 games and end up 11th/12th and out of the CIS Cup, then start cranking the pressure up - I just can't see what possible benefit can be gained from putting the players and manager under undue pressure before the predicament merits it.

[TSTtiger]

anyone dreaming that brewsters coats on a shoogly peg at the moment is kidding themselves. our board wouldn't have the nuts or knowhow to sack a manager let alone do it half a dozen or so games in to the season.

as much as its hard to swallow the only thing that'll produce p45's is relegation and even then i wouldn't bet on it.

[chris123]

I wouldn't call Rankin average.

In terms of the SPL, Rankin is clustered in the large group of players all very capable on their day, but all very similar in ability. He was a good player in our squad, but as has been shown at Hibs, he is an average player.

[MissICT]

wonder who we'll get in the nest round! :thumb04:

[CaleyP]

I wouldn't call Rankin average.

In terms of the SPL, Rankin is clustered in the large group of players all very capable on their day, but all very similar in ability. He was a good player in our squad, but as has been shown at Hibs, he is an average player.

i would have to agree that Rankin is average, he isn't a bad player but not great either. we have better players than Ranks still here at the club in Black and Cowie and after a few more games and experience Vigurs. Rankin is average.

[MissICT]

Im not the one to normally say this but:

[Huisdean]

Im not the one to normally say this but:

I think Bush has posted some very good posts in this topic as it is apparent that no matter what brewster does, some fans want him out regardless. A pont that has been missed, may have been raised in other threads, is that this season has seen the biggest change/turnover in our squad since Pele took over when we were in the third division. This is undoubtedly having an impact as these players get to know each other. At long last however, we are also starting to produce youngsters capable of playing in the SPL which is the future for us.

When playing young players, you will get inconsistent performances and allowances have to be made for this although not by some on this forum it appears.

Finally, remember football is a results business. If we played wonderful attacking football but lost every game or got relegated, then I would not be happy. The priority has to be results with hopefully the good football follwoing on after that. For those who say they would rather watch entertaining football and never mind the results, time to come into the real world.

[CaleyP]

Im not the one to normally say this but:

I think Bush has posted some very good posts in this topic as it is apparent that no matter what brewster does, some fans want him out regardless. A pont that has been missed, may have been raised in other threads, is that this season has seen the biggest change/turnover in our squad since Pele took over when we were in the third division. This is undoubtedly having an impact as these players get to know each other. At long last however, we are also starting to produce youngsters capable of playing in the SPL which is the future for us.

When playing young players, you will get inconsistent performances and allowances have to be made for this although not by some on this forum it appears.

Finally, remember football is a results business. If we played wonderful attacking football but lost every game or got relegated, then I would not be happy. The priority has to be results with hopefully the good football follwoing on after that. For those who say they would rather watch entertaining football and never mind the results, time to come into the real world.

spot on.

[PullMyFinger]

Im not the one to normally say this but:

I think Bush has posted some very good posts in this topic as it is apparent that no matter what brewster does, some fans want him out regardless. A pont that has been missed, may have been raised in other threads, is that this season has seen the biggest change/turnover in our squad since Pele took over when we were in the third division. This is undoubtedly having an impact as these players get to know each other. At long last however, we are also starting to produce youngsters capable of playing in the SPL which is the future for us.

When playing young players, you will get inconsistent performances and allowances have to be made for this although not by some on this forum it appears.

Finally, remember football is a results business. If we played wonderful attacking football but lost every game or got relegated, then I would not be happy. The priority has to be results with hopefully the good football follwoing on after that. For those who say they would rather watch entertaining football and never mind the results, time to come into the real world.

spot on.

I'm waiting

[Gorbals Caley]

was at the game last night, first half we were pretty poor, morton in fact looked the better team. second half started off the same until brew made a change and Vigurs came on...Vigurs's class no doubt changed the game in caley's favour, between Vigurs and Imirie was the reason we managed to win that game. well done to them both, as for the rest of the team only Blackie, Rooney and Wood get pass marks. Cowie unfortunately is a shodow of himself last season. no point mentioning any other players as they were pretty poor. going to need to raise our game a whole lot more if we want success in any campaign we're involved in.

Imirie MOM Vigurs in a class of his own when he came on.

I went to Cappielow last night, first time in nearly 30 years - after leaving Greenock for the big lights of Inverness & McDermotts.

Agree with CaleyP - In the 1st half ICT were dreadful. very few passes seemed to hit the mark - I watch the Caley Youth teams and they have a much higher hit rate - as for the long punt - aaarghh.

Anyway 2nd half was a marked improvement and from the running commentary behind me the locals

thought the same. Vigurs was excellent and although Imrie scored the winning goal - the rest of his performance was poor.

Team marks - Esson - Worth taking over from Fraser for a couple of games. Tokeley, Duncan, Cowie, Hastings - they ran about without actually taking part - far too many missed passes and punts. BW played well .

For the home team : Still have a soft spot for Morton . Defence: Dominic Shimmin is from the Arsenal Youth Team and seemed a decent player, Erik Paartalu and his long range throw-ins caused some grief.

We can possibly take heart that Rangers also had a difficult game tonight against the Maryhill Mob. How times have changed when we used to be classed as the 'shock' troops.