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RiG

Colt Teams

Colt Teams - the return  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support the introduction of Colt Teams in the SPFL?

    • Yes
      6
    • No
      16


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Obviously with everything else that is, or rather isn't going on at ICT it's understandable that this has slipped through the cracks but I see that Doncaster is trying to move forward with the introduction of Colt teams into the SPFL set up:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/spfl-consider-introducing-colt-teams-into-league-system-1-4473517

Initially, Colt teams would start in the Highland or Lowland leagues and, if successful, work their way up the pyramid with a ceiling of League One. All SPFL clubs have been invited to give feedback to the proposal (nice to exclude the Highland and Lowland League clubs from the consultation).

I am 100% against the idea of allowing Colt sides into the league set up. As has been pointed out on P & B one of the best things about supporting a lower league side is one day seeing them win the league. Imagine missing out on that because Celtic B win the league ahead of you and, if you are in League One, they can't even go up. It's a fantastic way for Doncaster and his croonies to basically piss off half of the league to appease the blue and green masses in Glasgow.

I don't see how it would do anything for the development of these younger players. Playing against League Two opposition isn't going to turn some U21 at Rangers into a world beater. If these players are good enough then they will break into the first team. The simple fact is that a lot of players coming through the youth set ups at some teams simply aren't good enough. Playing against a part time plumber from Elgin isn't going to change this. It's up to the likes of Rangers, Celtic and whoever else to develop and blood their younger players to continue their improvement.

Indeed the appearance of Colt teams in the Challenge Cup, branded a success by Doncaster for some reason despite most Colt sides getting pumped out at the second round and rotten crowds present for these games, seems to be a precursor to the inevitable appearance of these sides in the league set up.

Sadly it seems, as is almost always the case, that Scottish football is being run for the benefit of two clubs and I'm rapidly approaching the end of my tether with it all. I'm hopeful that ICT will object to these proposals when they feedback to the SPFL.

Edited by RiG
  • Agree 5

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Yup, couldn't agree more. 

Another sop to the Ugly Sisters - and if they ever get their wish to play in England, this means they can keep a presence in Scotland and try and hoover up trophies and European spots. 

As said above, all the people who run Scottish football are interested in is two clubs, and they don't even try to hide the fact that they are bending over backwards to facilitate them. The sooner we can get rid of the deadwood that is Reagan and Doncaster the better. 

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Fking terrible idea. Only increases the stranglehold of the big clubs. Plus imo there are too many clubs in Scotland as it is, this would just make some of the smaller ones even less sustainable. 

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I agree. Poor idea. Colt teams in the cup last year didn't really bring anything. Don't think it takes the Scottish game forward any. We are not a two club nation!

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Scottish football is full of ideas that will never, ever die and this is one of them.  A load of total *****.

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It's not a disaster in Germany or Spain, I think the youth teams coming up against lower league players is a better opposition.  You seen that when they were all put out pretty much straight away in the challenge cup. If there was a reserve league where age wasn't a restriction it might be better but I don't agree the development league at the moment works well enough. 

 I am open to new ideas, personally I think with this new idea will come a lowland league east/west split which they have been crying out for. This is what I want to see mostly. Once this split is created the couple hundred juniors could eventually be stuck on to the bottom of the pyramid without much issues. 

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3 hours ago, FamilyMan said:

We are not a two club nation!

Recent winners of the Dev league - Ross County, Aberdeen? There was 15 teams in it last year? 

The current set-up doesn't encourage players to breakthrough, certainly not for us anyway...why not something new? last season we loaned out some of our U20's to HL teams to get them playing competitive football, surely this is just an extension of this?

also, why do ICT teams do well upto about the U17 level, then tail off from there?  Why are our younger players apparently so much better, but once they get older, not so much?

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3 hours ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

It's not a disaster in Germany or Spain, I think the youth teams coming up against lower league players is a better opposition.  You seen that when they were all put out pretty much straight away in the challenge cup. If there was a reserve league where age wasn't a restriction it might be better but I don't agree the development league at the moment works well enough. 

 I am open to new ideas, personally I think with this new idea will come a lowland league east/west split which they have been crying out for. This is what I want to see mostly. Once this split is created the couple hundred juniors could eventually be stuck on to the bottom of the pyramid without much issues. 

There's nothing wrong with new ideas, or trying something different. On paper, the ability for teams to field a B team in the lower leagues may have some merit. The problem is that is being done to benefit two clubs, not the country as a whole. That's why this version of the idea is pants. 

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Good idea IMO, for what it's worth. Many years ago our reserve team played the FREE Highland League Team and it certainly helped our young lads along the way.

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The new SFA Project Brave is a disaster waiting to happen. Only 5 clubs can afford the 6 full time development staff and break away meetings happening.

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I seen Doncaster in the paper the other day gettig excited about how Rangers and Celtic could join the EPL. The same Neil Doncaster that was practically begging the other clubs to let Rangers back into the Premier League as the game would 'die' without them. Now he's delighted at the prospect of them both leaving. 

Cant help wondering why one of the heads of Scottish football would be delighted at the 2 biggest money making organisations for the league leaving.

it stinks.

 

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This will not improve things for the vast majority of clubs. What would improve Scottish football is the replacement of Neil Doncaster with a chief executive who is interested in the welfare of all clubs not just the toxic two.

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This wasn't an issue that had crossed my mind, to be honest, but the more I read about it, the more I think it's a bad idea.

Surely the best way to bring on aspiring young players at big clubs is to either:

a). Put them straight into the 1st team (the exceptional ones), or

b). Put them out on loan to other clubs - playing at smaller, lower league clubs would give them a grounding in reality, away from the hallowed surroundings of a football academy sort of place 

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So Hibs, Spartans, Stranraer, Stirling have all had colt teams in the past and no one bats an eyelid. What is the difference here? Is it just a hatred towards the OF? I don't get it. 

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8 minutes ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

So Hibs, Spartans, Stranraer, Stirling have all had colt teams in the past and no one bats an eyelid. What is the difference here? Is it just a hatred towards the OF? I don't get it. 

Were those colt teams in the league taking up promotion slots from other sides?

I've zero interest in watching my team play what is ultimately a reserve side in what is meant to be a competitive league.

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6 minutes ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

So Hibs, Spartans, Stranraer, Stirling have all had colt teams in the past and no one bats an eyelid. What is the difference here? Is it just a hatred towards the OF? I don't get it. 

Did the colt teams play in the senior leagues?

The problem is that this looks very much like something to benefit two particular teams.

If open to all teams, I have no issue. Also, if the Old Firm were to leave to play elsewhere, and were made to take their colt teams with them, again I'd have no issue. 

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Scottish football is full of ideas that never die and this is one of them.  There is no evidence that this would help young players develop and it takes well-supported leagues that contain teams who develop excellent young players and turns them into warm-ups for rich clubs reserve teams.

In terms of their size and wealth clubs like Hamilton Accies and Livingston have been far more successful than the Old Firm in producing young players.  Of the Scotland team who played on Saturday there were two Hearts youth products (Gordon and Berra), two Celtic (Tierney and Mulgrew), two Dundee Utd (Armstrong and Robertson), two Livingston (Grifiths and Snodgrass) one each from Hibs (Brown), Hamilton (McArthur), Middlesborough (Morrison), Aberdeen (Fraser), Wycombe (Anya) and Norwich City (Martin).  Of the two teams (the Old Firm) who will be the Colt teams there were two players, one of whom, Mulgrew, is pish.  Consider the vast sums of money spent by Rangers over the years on youth players and facilities and they have less success than Livingston.  

Colt teams really sum up the sort of discussion we have about football in this country - there are many, many things that make German and Spanish football produce better young players than in Scotland but the one that is picked up and hammered, over and over again for years, is B teams, 'Colt' teams.  It's something that is pretty simple to explain and understand but actually shies away from the real reasons why young Scottish players don't do as well (not enough quality coaching at a young age, not enough facilities, lack of structured national programmes etc).

The current rules say that B teams can't be included above the fifth tier of Scottish football.  I think that's fine - we ourselves used to have a 'B' team in the North Caldonian League and there are other teams who have the same.  The idea that you could have reserve teams squeezing out professional sides is a joke.  Of the teams in last season's Premiership us, Ross County, Hamilton Accies, Rangers and Partick Thistle have played in the lower half of the league system in the last twenty years.

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Well, in the South America Youth cup, or whatever you called it, who won the youth competition? This was about 9 months ago as I recall and Inverness Caledonian Thistle won the whole tournament. The boys looked bigger, stronger, more self-contained and aggressive and from the games I saw they were outstanding. I was gobsmacked at the fact that the Southern teams were not so good as the Caley team yet they produce excellent quality players in the long run...?

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On 13/06/2017 at 2:49 AM, Fraz said:

Fking terrible idea. Only increases the stranglehold of the big clubs. Plus imo there are too many clubs in Scotland as it is, this would just make some of the smaller ones even less sustainable. 

It might give some fans the opportunity to sing the sash and do the bouncy without making the trip to Ibrox though I guess

Dougal

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I'm not quite sure what would happen if Stranraer B won the South of Scotland. Would the team in second automatically be chosen for promotion or would no one achieve promotion that year? 

The idea is to start the colt teams in the 5th tier. This would create a new league in the west which is highly needed for other clubs to progress up the pyramid. Adding Rangers and Celtic colts into a Lowland West would give teams like Auchinleck, Clydebank, Pollok, etc a chance to gain promotion without too much travel.  Other teams such as Glasgow uni, Cumbernauld colts, East Kilbride, bsc glasgow would also then slip in.

The only issue I have with it is the level they are able to move up to. I think the Lowland/highland league should be the cut off, or if it's in league 2 then regardless of where they finish in the league another team is promoted in their place.  

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The crowds when Celtic and Rangers Under 20s played in this season's challenge cup

Celtic U20s v Annan at Cappielow - 216

Celtic U20s v Cowdenbeath at Central Park - 449

Rangers U20s v Stenhousmuir at Forthbank - 324

Celtic U20s v Livingston at Energy Assets Stadium - 1219

The only game that saw any significant increase in crowds was the Livingston game, which the Celtic 'Colts' lost 5-1.  That's another point, I'd imagine that a lot of the enthusiasm of this idea might fade when decent lower league teams started scudding the Ibrox and Parkhead kids week-in, week-out.

 

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On 13/06/2017 at 4:54 PM, caleyboy said:

Good idea IMO, for what it's worth. Many years ago our reserve team played the FREE Highland League Team and it certainly helped our young lads along the way.

Many more years ago Aberdeen 'A' twice won the Highland League :amazed:

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11 hours ago, dougal said:

It might give some fans the opportunity to sing the sash and do the bouncy without making the trip to Ibrox though I guess

Dougal

Whatever floats your boat mun.

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I've been to a few development games this season and a few in the lowland league too. There isn't much difference in terms of crowds at all. It's also likely they won't romp the leagues as they are just young boys learning their trade. I prefere the idea to loans.  I would love Inverness and County to have B teams in the highland league rather than a development league.  It gives the players a chance to play competitive football in a team that is almost going to be mimicking the big side so when they are ready they will fit in with tactics etc. 

I really don't see the issue with having them in at tier 5, highland/lowland level. 

Mantis as a fan of Whitehill Welfare what would be your opinion on playing a Hibs + Hearts colt side? 

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