Livingston FC

[Scotty]

The scary part is the last paragraph on the BBC story .....

"Meanwhile, Massone described his season with Livingston as a "fantastic experience" and did not rule out being involved with a Scottish football club in the future. He said that refusing the first offer from McGruther had been part of his strategy to save the club."

Just who would be foolish enough to let him near a copy of Football Manager let alone a real club ?

[CaleyD]

We have a meeting with him on Monday.

[Scotty]

Dont even say that in jest young man .... go wash your mouth out with 15 pints of lager now !!!

[kiltarlity]

Whats unfair is that the rules have been changed for Livi. Other clubs that have gone to the wall in the past have not had this option.

Of course in Livi's case the timing was too their advantage, with the seasons fixtures just about to start the SFL wanted to maintain the status quo.

I hear that the investors that came in made it clear that they were only going to invest if Livi stayed in the first. So it looks like they have had assurances that they will not be demoted if they can stay up this season. As they didn't technically go into liquidation (and as the SFL have taken a soft line) it looks like they could avoid a points penalty too.

To be honest the SFL's handling of this stinks... if they had got involved sooner, this situation could have been avoided...

One things for sure it sets a very dangerous president for the future.

Edited July 31, 2009 by kiltarlity

[RiG]

The more I think about this decision the more I get worked up about it. It is an utter disgrace that the SFL have agreed to this. Livi are a dying animal and should have been put down. Teams like Clyde and Airdrie have had to lose staff to cut their cloth accordingly. Livi piss money away left right and centre, go into administration, face liquidation yet somehow get reprieves from the SFL with no punishment.

Needless to say some teams aren't happy with the SFL over Livi (BBC story) but on the bright side they have appointed Gary Bollan as their new manger (BBC story) so relegation is a certainty.

[WYNESS101]

Livi have being a joke for the last few years. SFL should have just put them out there misery once and for all

[CaleyD]

I have to say that the whole think does stink a bit and it appears that the League Management Committee have conveniently allowed this to run so late in order to remove the chance of relegation from the equation.

They have have to give 21 days notice of any meeting which would have the power to impose any punishment on Livingston, and as that takes us beyond the start of the season relegation really can't be inflicted on them.

The only real options remaining are fines and points deductions. Fining them would only take money out of the hands of the creditors at this stage...and I don't think any of us want that to happen. That just leaves a points deduction.

If the deduct them 10 or 15 points then they are as good as consigning them to a relegation/playoff scenario and whilst I think it should happen, it will be argued by Livingston and whoever they can "persuade" onside that such action would undermine the integrity of the competition.

All we can gather from recent (and past) events of this nature is that the current rules....which aren't really rules because all they say is "we have the option too"....aren't up to scratch and the whole system needs looked at.

Livingston were wrong to have got themselves into this position (again), but they can't be held accountable for the poor rules/regulations in place at the SFL. Let's face it, if ICT were in their position and we were offered such a lifeline then we'd be grabbing it with both hands as well....and to feck with everyone else. It doesn't make it right, but it doesn't do any harm to get inside to look at it from the other side for a bit.

I also believe that the new Business Plan that the Livi Trust want to put in place is THE way forward for ALL clubs at all levels. I got a preview of it at the Supporters Direct Conference this year. The club might have been denying they had problems and many of the fans were in denial at the gravity of the situation only a couple of months back, by the Supporters Trust knew what was coming and they were as prepared as they could be to step in and do what was needed to not only try and save the clubs existence, but to have a plan to take it forward.

Now as much, if not more than ever lessons need to be learned, not just by Livingston, but by the SFL and every club in the country. More so than anyone else, the fans of every club need to wake up and realise that they can't just bury their heads in the sand and ignore what's going on in the boardroom.

[SMEE]

Whats unfair is that the rules have been changed for Livi.

There are those who would argue the same line regarding our entry to the SPL! Difference being though.....it was sense that prevailed in our case.

I feel weakness has been displayed regarding Livingston FC. Whats the point in having rules/guidelines if they arent going to adhere to them. These people in charge need to grow a set of balls!

[Scotty]

Needless to say some teams aren't happy with the SFL over Livi (BBC story) but on the bright side they have appointed Gary Bollan as their new manger (BBC story) so relegation is a certainty.

nothing to do with the vested interest of either manager ? Airdrie would have escaped relegation for the second season in a row by a team dying, and Albion play them today !!!!

cant agree with everything the SFL have done, but demotion to 3rd division is not really a true option as they confirmed they would fulfill fixtures and put up a bond to the SFL to cover problems if it didnt happen. Gretna were only demoted to the 3rd when they confirmed fixtures could not be met.

I still think they should have a points deduction, but that might be MY vested interest poking through !!!

[Kirishima]

Debts of over a million, but the SFL save them. Not sure about this, it cant be fair that a club gets help for racking up debts. They are still in div 1 because they lived waaaay beyond their means with players salaries, etc, yet the council and their staff get screwed, and the other clubs in their division last year get relegated, as they were more frugal with salaries and thus didnt have the same calibre of player, however they never screwed over their staff or players....

helping those who cant help themselves is a double-edged sword. They have to change the rules to make owners more responsible for their actions, and have independent audits of clubs, open books for the SFL etc etc. Clubs should be limited to spending a maximum of 40% of their income on players salaries, and transfer fees only if they are in the black.

[CaleyD]

I like the system they have in many other countries where clubs cannot sell more than 49% of their shares to "Private Investors".....the other 51% (or more) belongs to the members (fans) and prevents them losing control of the club to rogue owners who are only interested in having a play thing...or worse...asset stripping.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Livy might still be out of business by tonight. The consortium according to the BBC are not happy about the need for bond cover of ?750k. In layman's terms that probably means banks are not prepared to provide such security because they have no guarantees and far less any assets to fall back on.

If the magic money does not materialise Livy might be in the third tonight heading for extinction.

[RiG]

Livi relegated to the 3rd Division

:lol:

Edited August 5, 2009 by RiG

[CaleyD]

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I fail to see whats so amusing , this is probably the end of another Scottish team .

[Scotty]

As much as I dislike Livi, I cant laugh at their misfortune, nor the misfortune of any club that goes to the wall.

All of these clubs, (even Gretna) have/had fans and it is them who always get the shaft, not to mention the players and staff who lose their livelihood or jobs as a result of this.

A few bad decisions at our own club, or a prolonged spell outside the SPL, and its not beyond the realms of possibility that we could find ourselves in a similar situation one day ... we have already had a lot of cutbacks and redundancies as a result of our drop to Div 1 ... I wouldnt want it to get any worse.

[CaleyD]

Take no pleasure (other than noising up the eejits among their support) in seeing any club go to the wall, but allowing them to remain in the First Division would have made a farce of the league and had a far wider ranging impact on the game than relegating them has/will.

I actually don't believe for a second it will be the end of Livingston. McDougall and Rankine were not there and prepared to risk money for no reason....they were/are after the ground the stadium sits on, and demotion to the third (despite all the noises they've been making) will, to some extent, make it easier for them to get the land they seek. They are only making all the "pro-livi" noises because they need the club/fans onside and thinking they are wonderful men....it's only a distraction from the larger picture.

[Scotty]

Land and the stadium is owned by the council is it not ?

[kiltarlity]

Shocking decision by the SFL.!!! Hope they have the necessery to challenge it in Court!!

They gave assurances to those that came in to rescue the club last week that relegation would not happen.

Obviously these guys wouldn't have come in to save Livi, if relegation was on the cards as their buisness plan hung on Livi being allowed to remain in SFL 1 (this season).

The creditors lose out too as the CVA will now either not happen and Livi will go under or will be reduced even further in % to debt terms..

And what off the fans, they SFL led them to believe they were safe from relegation and were too rebuild, now they may not even survive!

Edited August 5, 2009 by kiltarlity

[CaleyD]

Land and the stadium is owned by the council is it not ?

Yes, but there's no secret that West Lothian Council have been looking to offload it for years. Co-operation with Livingston FC on the debt in return for a few million for the sale of the land!!!

You just have to look at the background of McDougall and Rankine (especially Rankine) to see that every club he's invested in has resulted in him acquiring land and making money from it....granted, clubs tend to have benefited also, so it's not all bad.

Livingston will survive, and they will find their level and McDougall and Rankine will help them with that...but they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[kiltarlity]

"Livingston will survive, and they will find their level and McDougall and Rankine will help them with that" CaleyD

What makes you think that, I suggest they are likely to walk away and leave Livi to perish!

[Harry Chibber]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: brilliant

[CaleyD]

"Livingston will survive, and they will find their level and McDougall and Rankine will help them with that" CaleyD

What makes you think that, I suggest they are likely to walk away and leave Livi to perish!

For the reasons I stated above, there's still room for these guys to get in there and make a few quid whilst keeping the club alive.

Does anyone honestly believe they would throw hundreds of thousands at Livingston (regardless of what league) because they thought they could make their money back from the football side of things? Or that they were investing out of the goodness of their hearts? Give me a break!!!

[kiltarlity]

The timing is unbelievable, it's 60 hours roughly until the start of the season and unlikely the league's can go ahead as planned.

Ross County were to play Livi on Saturday, now they won't.. they will play Airdrie (now promoted).

Or will they? I think a appeal will be launched so no match will take place, Airdrie will be in limbo as will Livi as will Cowdenbeath as will their opponents...

This could result in the SFL having to put all league matches on hold until this is resolved.

Going to Dunfermline this Saturday (You may need too think again!!) wouldn't surprise me if all league matches are called off until this is resolved.

What a mess!! Well done SFL!!

Edited August 5, 2009 by kiltarlity

[Georgeios]

Thats sad sad news, the livi5 had there plan and money.. if they stayed in the first, and for them to put up a team to the second with less than 2 weeks to find a team for the first is unreal, will they be put staight back down... who know, I however do feel its a really sad desision.. the players, the fans and the others trying to make it work when over all the only person to blame at this point in time is that ershole thats ran away happy with his deal... i hope all SFL teams have learnt there lesson.... sorry livi