The ICT brand

[Scotty]

I do think that if you didn't need to register though we would have a lot more users, maybe not just ICT fans but fans of other clubs. We used to get fans from other clubs coming on every week and there was always good banter from this.

and all those fans were registered .....

I cannot think of any forum where 'guests' can post. Its a sad fact that almost any forum that has done that is filled up almost immediately with porn and viagra spam messages .... (have a look at our old SportNetwork forum now it is unprotected) its also why - when users are registering - we ask them to click a link in their email to verify the account exists. These are known security issues facing forums and pretty much standard procedure if you want it to be remotely safe.

This is not to stifle our own users, it is to protect the site from all the crap that is out there constantly trying to find ways to get into forums all over the place so they can post this stuff. We tend to get about 6-10 attempts PER HOUR from known bots trying to login to the site and luckily, with one exception I think, our security has proved to be up to scratch.

Whenever i try and go onto another clubs forum and you need to register i end up leaving it, for one i mainly only want to read what they have to say and i don't like getting spam emails from then on after about a team i don't really care about.

One thing about us is that we never spam our users !!! In your profile there is an option to receive mail from the site administrators or not and any time we have sent out bulk mail for one reason or another, we have respected the option chosen in that field by users.

[+Fraz]

My question is simple;

I feel we are excluding hundreds if not thousands of potential fans worldwide by not enabling them to view each thread and see what we are all about

Your words not mine.

So Dougal if I'm following your logic the fact that P&B does not require registration to read brings 'thousands' of new people around the word to follow and become enlightened in Scottish football where before they would not have been interested? They would otherwise be tempted elswhere?

It's hardly rocket science!!!!

I'm not saying thousands would necessary join up to P&B but that site certainly seems more welcoming than CTO

P&B and all other SPL clubs forums gives the lurker the option to read on while CTO doesn't unless they register which IMO puts the majority off

It certainly doesn't help enticing new fans

dougal

So now you are not saying thousands, perhaps your hyperbole was lost on me.

P&B is more welcoming than CTO?

Personally I think if you are going to be getting worked up about ICT websites you are focussing on the wrong one.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Since you're so confident that opening the site viewing to everyone will be of such huge benefit to our following, we'll agree to change it if you agree to foot the cost for the next 12 months. If after that time we have hundreds of new fans then we'll refund your money....if we have thousands of new fans then we'll refund you double your money.

Contact myself or Scotty via PM and we can arrange for you to deposit the funds with us. About ?300 should do to start with, if we look like spending more than that we can get back to you.

Childish response to an innocent question .

[CaleyD]

What's so childish about it?

He's been offered the chance to prove his theory....should we be expected to foot the bill for that when we believe he is wrong?

I thought the offer to refund his money should he prove the lower end of his theory correct a very generous one...and double his money for thousands of new fans would, IMO, be money well spent and I'd happily part with it if proved wrong.

[FoolPhysio]

I use a number of forums for professional and hobby purposes, and this site ranks up there as one that is well moderated, easy to operate and has a decent membership which provides some excellent banter as well as thought-provoking discussions. Registering for me was no inconvenience, in fact I would expect a reasonable site to request it to ensure that those wishing to get involved were there for the right reasons. Not just an internet security measure but one to screen out the really troublesome trolls, although it doesn't deter the really cheeky troublemakers (remember the sheep fan who made a brief appearance earlier in the year and then dropped out again having been well and truly flamed?? )

I regard this site very highly and because of these measures, I would recommend it without hesitation to any ICT fans not currently using it. Fact is, while some of us use forums to a greater or lesser extent the majority of people don't. Making it open access would not improve numbers and indeed, would only damage it for all the reasons already posted.

[dougal]

Wouldn't there be more income from advertisers if the site was open to all?

Excellent point, advertising could make this site a tidy sum certainly a lot more than any donation i personally could make

the site IS open to all ... you just have to register. However, leaving the semantics of 'open to all' or 'guest' versus 'member' aside, the simple answer is no, there is no evidence to suggest we would generate more revenue with one model over the other.

Other than Google we do not have any paid advertisers and our Google income is pretty much unaffected by raw pageviews. Like every other site - P&B included - we cater to a fairly narrow 'niche' market (in our case, ICT fans, in P&B's case, fans of all teams) and whilst it is appealing to some advertisers, it does not have the same draw for others .....

We are not running CTO as a profit making exercise so this lack of advertising doesnt really bother us too much. If we can make most of our hosting costs back via Google Ads and supplement that with the odd bit of sponsorship or donations here and there we are quite happy. We prefer to use CTO as our own marketing tool to showcase the work we can do for other clients who come to us for web design help or projects.

Fair enough you claim you are not running CTO as a profit making exercise and thats entirely up to you but to say the lack of advertising doesn't bother you shows short sightedness IMO

There is no point complaining about the running costs while on the other hand advertising doesn't seem to be considered an option

Profits could be re-invested in improving the site or donations made directly to ICT

dougal

Edited November 23, 2010 by dougal

[Scotty]

Wouldn't there be more income from advertisers if the site was open to all?

Excellent point, advertising could make this site a tidy sum certainly a lot more than any donation i personally could make

and you base this assumption on what exactly ?

Fair enough you claim you are not running CTO as a profit making exercise and thats entirely up to you but to say the lack of advertising doesn't bother you shows short sightedness IMO. There is no point complaining about the running costs while on the other hand advertising doesn't seem to be considered an option. Profits could be re-invested in improving the site or donations made directly to ICT

I dont think we actually complained about running costs? You started this thread not us. We have simply answered your actual question which was why we didnt leave all threads open to guests.

The fact that one of the reasons we choose to display the site the way we do is to do with the cost of bandwidth is immaterial. We are not out with the begging bowl to users, we do not ram our 'sponsor member' option down people's throats and we do not routinely moan that the site is expensive to run ... it may be mentioned from time to time in response to a question as to why we may or may not be able to do something, but its not a constant whine.

Advertising is an option but its a little difficult for me to get round local businesses in Inverness to try and source it and the simple fact is that online advertising budgets for most smaller companies are not huge. We chose to use Google ads because we can have some adverts that - as mentioned before - cover a decent portion of our operating costs, and we can keep them less obtrusive than advertising on other sites. Dont get me wrong, if some big company came along and offered us cash to sponsor the site we would definitely consider it ...we are not totally philanthropic !

I kind of take a little umbrage to the "Profits could be re-invested in improving the site or donations made directly to ICT" comment .....

We constantly improve this site .... read the post further up the page where I have described some of our evolution .... the site now compared to 15, 10, 5 or even 2 years ago is far different and IMHO far better than it was before because we invest in the site. We have moved from free hosting to shared hosting and now to VPS hosting, we have evolved from a guestbook to a rudimentary forum, to free forum software to a commercial grade forum, we have moved from static pages to basic content systems to a full content management system, we have moved from one person running and writing everything to having a team of individuals running, moderating, and writing articles (and I have to say that the quality of preview/report articles has increased vastly this season from when I might throw something together). We also respond to 'bug' reports from our members faster than most commercial sites I am a member of.

As for donations .... the Internutters sponsorship started as a CTO sponsorship. I personally sponsored Grant Munro for a few years before turning it over to the group effort that Guzz now runs, and we underwrite it, vowing to make up any shortfall when we are in between one sponsorship goal and the next one. Even now whilst perhaps not making a monetary donation to ICT both myself and CaleyD have and continue to donate resources and time to help the club with various projects. For example, the bandwidth we are all talking about at the moment hosts the videos of all the matches that are shown on the club website and we process all the footage for the club so it can be streamed online. Thats just one thing, there are plenty of others.

[dougal]

It appears that everyone can now read all the posts without having to login or register

Fair play to the Mods for reacting so quickly to my thread and enhancing the ICT brand to a world wide audience

dougal

[ICTPaisley]

I'm actually happy this has happened as well. I really do think that with other clubs fans being able to just view our comments without signing up we may have a few more rival posters on here with some banter like the old days.

[PullMyFinger]

We don't want to encourage the tinks though.

[dougiedanger]

It appears that everyone can now read all the posts without having to login or register

Fair play to the Mods for reacting so quickly to my thread and enhancing the ICT brand to a world wide audience

dougal

Any other revolutionary ideas dougal?

Keep 'em coming.

[PullMyFinger]

Hmmmmmmmmm

[dougal]

So mods why the change in policy????

Take it CTO is enjoying a lot more traffic and hits since the change

dougal

[Alex MacLeod]

So mods why the change in policy????

Take it CTO is enjoying a lot more traffic and hits since the change

dougal

Just for you dougal this has little to do with policy change and more to do with changing to a new service provider with more bandwidth available. Had the forums been open to all under the previous system and software you'd likely have been on here moaning about the slowness of the site.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Here is a piccy of Dougal on Dornoch Beach.

[Scotty]

So mods why the change in policy????

Take it CTO is enjoying a lot more traffic and hits since the change

dougal

Just for you dougal this has little to do with policy change and more to do with changing to a new service provider with more bandwidth available. Had the forums been open to all under the previous system and software you'd likely have been on here moaning about the slowness of the site.

As Alex has said, it has everything to do with our change of service provider in early November and nothing to do with an odious poster who chooses to (try and) hide behind a pseudonym.

As much as you might like to think of yourself as a champion of the people, you really are irrelevant in this equation Dougal as the process was already under review prior to your post. Although our reasons for making any changes to the site are quite frankly none of your business, we have chosen to give some explanation just so you do not form another fantasy or conspiracy theory.

As for traffic - no noticeable difference so your assumption there is also absolute bollocks.

[Council Juice]

Quite simply put, this is a fans site for ICT fans, created by fans of ICT, run by fans of ICT, PAID for by those fans of ICT running it.

All for the loyal fans of both ICT and CTO. As well as anyone else who takes 2 minutes to register like alot of sites. I used to frequent the Clyde forum during our old 1st div days. It too required registration (and thats an official site).

It's really up to Scotty and his team of loyal knights to run it in the best way they see fit, because they do it all for us. NEVER forget that.

It is not their job to enhance ICTs rep, but they still do it. This site and forums existence does that alone. 8-9 million hits is phenomenal for pretty much any site (outwith your ebays, youtubes, facebooks and amazons) never mind for a site dedicated to a select few (ICT). What they do for us shows them as among the elite of fans.

This site unites the cyber fans of ICT and thats all possible because of the mods and founders hard work over the years. Long may their dedication continue.

[PullMyFinger]

I would ask what Dougal is doing to improve his own rep on here but alas his posts have disappeared.