Administration Question

[Tug]

i was wondering if someone could clear something up for me

with rangers and hearts both looking decidedly dodgy financially what is the likely punishment?

iirc Gretna were hammered with finishing out the season, a points deduction and being booted back to the 3rd division.... as far as i know they are the only SPL club to enter administration but would the sfl have a say in any punishment? does the gretna ruling present a precedent for what is considered a base line? would the Dundee/Livingston cases have any bearing on a decision by the spl on a punishment?

[Scotty]

i was wondering if someone could clear something up for me

with rangers and hearts both looking decidedly dodgy financially what is the likely punishment?

iirc Gretna were hammered with finishing out the season, a points deduction and being booted back to the 3rd division.... as far as i know they are the only SPL club to enter administration but would the sfl have a say in any punishment? does the gretna ruling present a precedent for what is considered a base line? would the Dundee/Livingston cases have any bearing on a decision by the spl on a punishment?

The precedent is a 10 point deduction..... or nothing at all if you go back further

Gretna were deducted 10 points by the SPL and that was the full extent of their punishment in the top league. It was enough to see them relegated and they were then demoted back to SFL3 not by the SPL or SFA but by the SFL when they could not confirm they would fulfil their SFL fixtures the following season. : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/g/gretna/7426281.stm

Livi - in administration for the second time - were demoted to D3 after breaching insolvency rules: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/livingston/8179998.stm

Dundee got a 25 point penalty - again by the SFL not the SPL - and the reason given was because it wasnt their first time in administration. First time round there was no sanction.

If you want to limit it to the SPL, then prior to Gretna, administration had no effect on your points ....

Motherwell (SPL) were in administration from Apr 2002- Apr 2004 and had no points deducted

Dundee (first time round - Nov 2003 - Aug 2004) were in the SPL and had no points deduction

Livingston (first time round - Feb 2004 - May 2005) were in the SPL and had no points deducted

If Rangers or Hearts do go into administration, it will be interesting to see what does actually happen .... the SFL seem to be way harder on teams than the SPL and they could argue that 75% of all teams in the SPL who entered administration were never penalised ......

[Tug]

i was wondering if someone could clear something up for me

with rangers and hearts both looking decidedly dodgy financially what is the likely punishment?

iirc Gretna were hammered with finishing out the season, a points deduction and being booted back to the 3rd division.... as far as i know they are the only SPL club to enter administration but would the sfl have a say in any punishment? does the gretna ruling present a precedent for what is considered a base line? would the Dundee/Livingston cases have any bearing on a decision by the spl on a punishment?

The precedent is a 10 point deduction..... or nothing at all if you go back further

Gretna were deducted 10 points by the SPL and that was the full extent of their punishment in the top league. It was enough to see them relegated and they were then demoted back to SFL3 not by the SPL or SFA but by the SFL when they could not confirm they would fulfil their SFL fixtures the following season. : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/g/gretna/7426281.stm

Livi - in administration for the second time - were demoted to D3 after breaching insolvency rules: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/l/livingston/8179998.stm

Dundee got a 25 point penalty - again by the SFL not the SPL - and the reason given was because it wasnt their first time in administration. First time round there was no sanction.

If you want to limit it to the SPL, then prior to Gretna, administration had no effect on your points ....

Motherwell (SPL) were in administration from Apr 2002- Apr 2004 and had no points deducted

Dundee (first time round - Nov 2003 - Aug 2004) were in the SPL and had no points deduction

Livingston (first time round - Feb 2004 - May 2005) were in the SPL and had no points deducted

If Rangers or Hearts do go into administration, it will be interesting to see what does actually happen .... the SFL seem to be way harder on teams than the SPL and they could argue that 75% of all teams in the SPL who entered administration were never penalised ......

didn't realize they were SPL when it happened to that three.

only saving grace i suppose would be that hearts probably look more likely to go further than administration and could well land up in a situation similar to gretna. got a feeling however that the no penalty thing would be a more likely option. makes a mockery of our set up even more but till we have one governing body running all the leagues then that wont change

[Gabby]

I've had a look at the SPL Rules and Regs and found the following: Section A6 says the following:

A6.8 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event that Club shall be deducted 10 points. Where the Insolvency Event occurs during the Season, the points deduction shall apply immediately. Where the Insolvency Event occurs during the Close Season the points deduction shall apply in respect of the immediately following Season, such that the Club starts that immediately following Season on minus 10points.

A6.9 Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting for more than one Season then, for each

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such Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 10 points or, as the case may be, shall start each such Season on minus 10 points.

A6.10 In the event that a Club shall take, suffer or be subject to more than one Insolvency Event during any one Season and the immediately preceding Close Season, which, in the opinion of the Board, are not part of the same Insolvency Process, then that Club shall be deducted 10 points in respect of each such Insolvency Event or, as the case may be minus such number of points, as reflects the number of Insolvency Events which that Club takes, suffers or is subject to during that Season and the immediately preceding Close Season.

So it basically says that a 10 point deduction applies, if a club is still in administration the following season they would start the following season on -10 points. Based on that Rangers could be in adinistration and still come second in the League. The problem they would have they would run into trouble in European Comps at that is their real cash cow.

[SMEE]

10 pts is hardly punishment. It dont exactly make you want to go to any lengths to avoid going into administration. If the punishment was much harsher, it might make clubs hold the reigns tighter

Edited December 10, 2011 by SMEE

[CaleyD]

Going in to administration should mean immediate relegation.

Administration shows that the club has been operating outwith it's means in order to maintain league status/position and that is cheating....pure and simple.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Going in to administration should mean immediate relegation.

Administration shows that the club has been operating outwith it's means in order to maintain league status/position and that is cheating....pure and simple.

Nail on head . Agree entirely .

[Yngwie]

I was talking to a tax partner at one of the big accountancy firms recently about Rangers appeal against the tax assessment and his view was that "they don't have a leg to stand on".

[starchief]

The fans might want Rangers and Hearts relelgated but there's no way the chairmen or TV bosses will. It's not about what's fair, it's about business - and that is why football, not just Scottish football, is bust.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Rangers might lose points through Craig Whyte's alleged directorship ban. At present that may be a long shot.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/286032-no-rangers-agm-this-year-says-craig-whyte/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/8929528/SFA-to-investigate-whether-Craig-Whyte-is-fit-and-proper-to-own-Rangers.html

Given that Stewart Regan asked for details by return it does seem odd that the Ibrox club failed to notify the SFA last week.