CTO - The Future

[Guest]

The P&B complaints forum has been mentioned a couple of times. It has its merits in allowing users to air their views on what is acceptable, but the downsides are:

- the users seldom agree on whether a complaint is valid or not.

- a lot of people here would be reluctant to post or comment on a public complaints forum when their view is out of line with others

How do you overcome those issues?

I don't see a problem in someone saying "I find X post unacceptable for Y reason" a short discussion on whether that post is or is not offensive would happen, anyone abusing the complaints forum would have their rights to that forum removed and this would take away the stigma of posting your complaint allowing the membership more say in what is and is not acceptable. This system also lets the moderators get a feel of how the community feel about certain issues, removing them from the bubble of the moderators forum and bringing them closer to the rest of us.

EDIT- I never addressed the issue of agreement, the point of the forum would be for the mods to get a feel of how issues are seen so at the end of the day they can make a more informed decision, not to allow the lunatics to take over the asylum, the mods decision would be final regardless and we would have a chance to make our case.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Birdog2

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well here I am - on nights in A&E - dead pan sober - not a drink for 72 hours - possibly thank feck fer that.

There you go - the word feck - still alive and kicking without asterisks - some may ask why ? Other words such as **** and **** etc are personna non grata - wow I could go really psychological here but I will restrain myself.

abuse - bullying - humour - banter etc. - they all mean different things to different people - especially in an age of political correctness and human rights and "I dont like that word so dont use it" mentality - well I would say feck aff to that - but that is me.

The "old" site was a mix of people who knew who the owners of the other signatures were - that has changed and I suspect that it is very difficult and frustrating when you really want to know the identity of the person who is challenging you, disagreeing with you and taking the mick at times. To me that is most amusing.

The fortunes of the club do mirror the "feel" of the site - it is human behaviour to project your feelings and this site affords the opportunity - that is why it is busier after a poor display. I use it to destress myself and stress others !! I blame the muppets for a lot of this.

Feckin smileys - ban the feckers Do they wind some peeple up or wot - I call them ammunition :D

Lets have a wee bit of moderator criticism here - they are a bit like referees arent they ? It is really difficult to make consistent moderation decisions when you have such diverse personalities. I have to say that I feel that personality clashes do come in to play and some moderators have less temperance for certain individuals. I would hate to be a moderator as I feel that you cannot freely be a "free" poster and a moderator at the same time - one minute you could be in a debate and the next you are deleting the post - feckin power is feckin marvellous :)

I also feel that a bit of the "old school" attitude has developed - I know that you can often tell the age of a poster by their style but I feel that the yoof appear to be targetted on here in a "that wouldnt have happened in my day son" or "listen to your father" type chastisement.

Aint it interesting who has posted on here and who hasnt - and the second poster (gawd bless him) probably thought that it was a wind up to join in with

I quite like the Fat Slags who run this experience :) It truly grieves me that they are feeling as they do - whatever we may think it is the Fat Controllers who keep the CTO trains running on time. But seriously this to me is a warning - it could be "a cry for help". It could be an IT mid life crisis ?

I think that it takes a lot of courage to express your emotions so freely to such an audience :025: :025:

Lets all keep within the boundaries of polite "respect" - and watch the feckin language. Nowt like a bit of banter and sarcasm :blah01:

[Scotty]

following our wee conversation could I be as bold as to suggest a possible shake up of your moderating team. I would not like to advocate that any mods are removed but I do think maybe someone on board with a more liberal attitude is taken in, someone who has a fresh attitude to allowing banter to flow.

I believe we have an excellent mod team already and as stated in my first post, I can attest to the fact that we hold a wide variety of views on most subjects. We have had to deal with a lot of nonsense in the recent past and I dont think it is breaking any mod confidences to say that many of our discussions have seen different mods express opinions at each end of the scale. However, if there is a stand-out candidate who would bring something to the table then I/we am/are all ears.

The reason that you guys removed the "official" tag from the website was to allow more freedom in what was posted but in the interest of maintaining strong ties with the club not much leeway has been gained (from what I can see, I know there must be a lot we are not privy to behind the scenes) some posts which I would consider banter are jumped on by mods without much explanation or any visible complaints. Perhaps implementing a complaints forum such as is used on P&B might let members here know why people are offended at certain posts and would further let the rest of us know where the boundaries are. It may also allow the mods the chance to distance themselves a little from their duties and let their posts be seen as banter again instead of rubbing people up when there is no intention to do so.

Thats not why we removed the official tag but thats another debate entirely. Regarding posts you consider as banter. You and I have had enough back and forth discussions in private and public over the last few months that we both know what one thinks is banter another may think is abuse and vice versa. The mods dont like making work for themselves and we can all do without the hassle but one thing that seems to get forgotten in all of this ..... at the end of the day we are just trying to apply the rules that have been written and that every user has agreed to, it is not personal. Do we always get it right? no of course we dont, but we aint trying to make life difficult for me, you or anyone else. A quiet life and some banter will do for me ... but it has to be within certain boundaries.

As a few folk have talked about the P&B complaint forum I will take a look at it - I dont go on P&B much of my own volition these days, usually only on there when someone tells me there is something mentioned about CTO !!! Without looking, I can tell you I am not a fan of the idea as presented in this thread as some people do not want to make public complaints and not all moderation needs to be done in public .... but I will take a look before forming a proper opinion. It would certainly be something for the mods to discuss.

being a football forum it should be about the banter, like the stands at TCS should be about the banter. If you have some sort of understanding for your post being removed then you will not do it again otherwise you face the warning system.

I would love it to be about the banter, I guarantee you that if it was everyone would be happier but to be quite frank, the warning system does not deter people right now so I dont see how that would change. Having said that, lets not get dragged down a side street oin this discussion. As posted above, we will look at this suggestion and see if we believe it has any merit on here.

What exactly is it you are looking for in a discussion board? I feel that a discussion board should be about that discussion, people will never totally agree on any subject and when you take a subject like football where emotions are strong then discussions will naturally get more passionate and a quick word in the ear should bring the emotional levels back to a level which is more acceptable to the wider community.

Bingo ! Thats pretty much what I said in my initial post !! It should be about the discussion, I agree 100% but all to often it is NOT about the discussion, it is about pedantic point scoring or one-upmanship or abuse or bullying and when a quick word in the ear doesnt work and warnings are handed out all hell breaks loose.

The other thing I'd like to mention is the perhaps removing the number of posts people have on their profiles? And much in a facebook kind of way a tab to 'like' a statement? Quite often people quote a statement and add a few words of agreement in - I've done this myself.

Interesting. I assume this would be in an effort to stop people trying to increase their post count with bull**** posts ? If there is no post count then there is no competition? That would indeed be possible.

The P&B complaints forum has been mentioned a couple of times. It has its merits in allowing users to air their views on what is acceptable, but the downsides are:

- the users seldom agree on whether a complaint is valid or not.

- a lot of people here would be reluctant to post or comment on a public complaints forum when their view is out of line with others

How do you overcome those issues?

I don't see a problem in someone saying "I find X post unacceptable for Y reason" a short discussion on whether that post is or is not offensive would happen, anyone abusing the complaints forum would have their rights to that forum removed and this would take away the stigma of posting your complaint allowing the membership more say in what is and is not acceptable. This system also lets the moderators get a feel of how the community feel about certain issues, removing them from the bubble of the moderators forum and bringing them closer to the rest of us.

EDIT- I never addressed the issue of agreement, the point of the forum would be for the mods to get a feel of how issues are seen so at the end of the day they can make a more informed decision, not to allow the lunatics to take over the asylum, the mods decision would be final regardless and we would have a chance to make our case.

This is what already happens between the mods when a post is reported or when a mod highlights it as going against site rules in some way. The downsides described are pretty much as I imagined. However, as noted above I think we should at least look at it and then decide.

abuse - bullying - humour - banter etc. - they all mean different things to different people - especially in an age of political correctness and human rights and "I dont like that word so dont use it" mentality - well I would say feck aff to that - but that is me.

I have lost count of the number of times people have complained about the word "feck" but if its good enough for Father Jack You can still use it so that answers that query I think.

The "old" site was a mix of people who knew who the owners of the other signatures were - that has changed and I suspect that it is very difficult and frustrating when you really want to know the identity of the person who is challenging you, disagreeing with you and taking the mick at times.

I think you are correct.

The fortunes of the club do mirror the "feel" of the site - it is human behaviour to project your feelings and this site affords the opportunity - that is why it is busier after a poor display. I use it to destress myself and stress others !! I blame the muppets for a lot of this. :blah01:

I think this echoes a PM I was sent earlier by another user who likened us all to a big family arguing when things got on top of us.

Lets have a wee bit of moderator criticism here - they are a bit like referees arent they ? It is really difficult to make consistent moderation decisions when you have such diverse personalities. I have to say that I feel that personality clashes do come in to play and some moderators have less temperance for certain individuals. I would hate to be a moderator as I feel that you cannot freely be a "free" poster and a moderator at the same time - one minute you could be in a debate and the next you are deleting the post

As I said above, and I have always said ...... do we always get it right? No we dont, but we do try our best. Also we are human and it is inevitable that emotions get involved. That is another reason for having a "team" of moderators .... Whilst a decision to edit, merge or move a post or to issue a low level warning may be made by any moderator, major moderation decisions are discussed and made by the team, not by an individual moderator

I quite like the Fat Slags who run this experience :D It truly grieves me that they are feeling as they do - whatever we may think it is the Fat Controllers who keep the CTO trains running on time. But seriously this to me is a warning - it could be "a cry for help". It could be an IT mid life crisis ?

I think that it takes a lot of courage to express your emotions so freely to such an audience

Lets all keep within the boundaries of polite "respect" - and watch the feckin language. Nowt like a bit of banter and sarcasm :)

I can assure you it is no "cry for help" and it is no "mid life crisis", it is quite simply what I would call "Popeye Time" ..... basically, "I have had enough and cant stands no more" [apologies to the "yoof" who will likely not have a clue what I am on about]. At the end of the day, I am spending way too much time on the admin of this site when I should be getting the craic on the boards, when we should all be getting the craic on the boards. It has long since ceased to be fun and started to become a chore quite some time ago. I let that slide for a while but not any more. We need to sort it out so we can get back to the banter. If that cant happen then I need to have a good long hard think about where things go from here.

[Johnboy]

Well here I am - on nights in A&E - dead pan sober - not a drink for 72 hours - possibly thank feck fer that.

There you go - the word feck - still alive and kicking without asterisks - some may ask why ? Other words such as **** and **** etc are personna non grata - wow I could go really psychological here but I will restrain myself.

abuse - bullying - humour - banter etc. - they all mean different things to different people - especially in an age of political correctness and human rights and "I dont like that word so dont use it" mentality - well I would say feck aff to that - but that is me.

The "old" site was a mix of people who knew who the owners of the other signatures were - that has changed and I suspect that it is very difficult and frustrating when you really want to know the identity of the person who is challenging you, disagreeing with you and taking the mick at times. To me that is most amusing.

The fortunes of the club do mirror the "feel" of the site - it is human behaviour to project your feelings and this site affords the opportunity - that is why it is busier after a poor display. I use it to destress myself and stress others !! I blame the muppets for a lot of this. :025:

Feckin smileys - ban the feckers :025: Do they wind some peeple up or wot - I call them ammunition

Lets have a wee bit of moderator criticism here - they are a bit like referees arent they ? It is really difficult to make consistent moderation decisions when you have such diverse personalities. I have to say that I feel that personality clashes do come in to play and some moderators have less temperance for certain individuals. I would hate to be a moderator as I feel that you cannot freely be a "free" poster and a moderator at the same time - one minute you could be in a debate and the next you are deleting the post - feckin power is feckin marvellous :)

I also feel that a bit of the "old school" attitude has developed - I know that you can often tell the age of a poster by their style but I feel that the yoof appear to be targetted on here in a "that wouldnt have happened in my day son" or "listen to your father" type chastisement.

Aint it interesting who has posted on here and who hasnt - and the second poster (gawd bless him) probably thought that it was a wind up to join in with :)

I quite like the Fat Slags who run this experience It truly grieves me that they are feeling as they do - whatever we may think it is the Fat Controllers who keep the CTO trains running on time. But seriously this to me is a warning - it could be "a cry for help". It could be an IT mid life crisis ?

I think that it takes a lot of courage to express your emotions so freely to such an audience :025: :025:

Lets all keep within the boundaries of polite "respect" - and watch the feckin language. Nowt like a bit of banter and sarcasm

:D :) :blah01:

I'd say you are spot on with all of that - amazing what can be achieved after 72 hours...

Just for the record I wouldn't agree that the site has gone downhill, although I do suspect that the club's last two managerial appointments have created some deep divisions within the support.

Like many others I've had my share of abuse, (most of that from the mods!) but I firmly believe if you can't stand the heat then stay out the kitchen.

I was going to proffer a suggestion :

That Scottie and Don hand control of CTO to a new admin team, who would then appoint a completely new set of mods - maybe for a set period - purely as an experiment.

Thinking more about that, I don't think it would make a blind bit of difference to the overall quality of this site - which I have to say for me, is generally pretty high, and is in the main, very entertaining.

Scottie and Don - I'd like to think I speak for most on here in saying that your efforts are seriously appreciated - thanks for all your patience and tolerance.

Please don't give up on us.

[RiG]

My personal feeling is that the site goes hand in hand with how the club are doing. We do well we get lots of positive posts and every one is happy. However we have been on a sustained downturn and as a result posting has generally been more on the negative side and emotions often boil over and things get out of hand. If we start going on a good run again I think you will find the forum change again.

What do site users want from the forum and site in the future? Some suggestions might not be feasible but I am sure they will be considered if they are practical. I liked the idea of the "I Like" thing from Facebook. Maybe work that with reputation points or something along those lines?

[gordyfromsneck]

As one of the old skool and a sweety rustler to boot, I can echo what Scotty is saying. I used to visit this site because it enriched my experience of being an ICT supporter; getting views of other on the games, latest news, some insider stuff, wind-ups, wit and banter. Now I find I have to dredge through so much crap just to get anything decent.

You and Don have done great work, and I appreciate what you are saying, it is a thankless task, and some of the folk that give you problems are like kids playing footy in the street, they are left to their own devices until they get rowdier and something gets smashed, they are told to go, so they whine about unfair treatment. Yeah it is about age difference, but it is, as Alex said about respect and self-policing. Where better to be a loud aggressive bully than the internet...total coverage + anonymity = twathood.

I like RonnyC's idea of earning the right to post, but also what about a "little brother site"?

Get the younger folk to set up their own site with their own mods to police as they will, nothing like power for teaching responsibility (cross fingers). Anyone can join either/both site, but people will soon find which they prefer.

And if they can't set it up for themselves, set it up for them.

Again my thanks to you both and all the other mods for fighting the "sh1tstorm"; you must love the club a great deal to put up with the nonsense.

[Kirishima]

The long and short of it is, if the site becomes a chore for the operators, it will go the way of the dodo, for sure.

I can understand why, there is so much backbiting, and i think it is from people arguing over Section G. If we could remove those arguments (and it is the subject of Section G, and not necessarily the people in section G, i am referring to)

I have never heard of Section G, and i would not know where it is if i was asked to point it out. The only reason i know of section G, is because this site is full of references to section G. That leads to personal abuse, squabbles, petty infighting and abuse.

I really believe that over-moderation is fine. I don't swear, use abusive tones or threats, get into personal abuse of posters or staff, and it has always seemed very simple.

I do think that the answer is a break-off as GordyfromSneck sagely put it. It is kind of like the church: Church of Scotland, Free Church, Continuing Free Church...

[Oz647]

I feel that as an Englander that has come up here and made Sneck my home, I can give a fair and honest "outsiders" point of view.

The board started long before I was in Sneck and will hopefully last well into the future. I started coming on here to find out what was happening with ICT and with the hope of meeting new friends. Whilst I have not personally met any of you I do feel that I can come on here and chat or ask for advice, wether it be about football or IT or anything else for that matter. Yes there are those on here that only seem out to bully others and slag others whenever possible but by and large most on here are friendly and helpful. I think it is a true reflection of life in general. If you put a lot of people from different backgrounds together you will get arguements and differences of opinion. Believe me, this is nothing compared to the forces as many on here will testify. Unfortunately on here some know they will probably never meet so they feel they can get away with saying things they would not normally have the balls to say face to face. As for the mods, I feel they do a fine job and are pretty much fair to all. I have been involved in a couple of "discussions" with a certain member of the site and these discussions have sometimes pushed the boundries but "as far as I'm aware" my warning has not gone up and I haven't been spoken to by any mods. So in my opinion, they are not saying you can't have your say just be a little more respectful about how you say it. Remember there are kids on here.

As for the restricting new posters to one post a day, I feel that would be a bad idea for two reasons:

1. A thread could take days to get going.

2. A new poster may lose interest having to keep coming back every day just to insert one post.

I do like the idea of yellow/red cards, then instead of waiting for a poster's warning to go all the way to 100% you could hit him with 2 cards and then ban him. As long as there is an appeal system just as in football itself.

In regards to mods deleting/editing posts, whilst I can see a necessity for it to be done, I think that a reason should always be given. This reason should be clear and fair not just as mentioned earlier in the thread as "because I said so". The mods do pretty much adhere to this but I have seen the odd edit/delete done with no explanation.

Whilst I swear like a trooper in day to day life, I try my utmost not to on here. I feel that we all sit and think what we are writing before we do it so surely we can edit our thoughts before posting them. I do however understand the use of some expletives to stress the amount of emotion we are feeling at times. I myself have found the need to use certain phrases to express my feelings in previously mention discussions but surely we can all be a little more restrained and limit it to the odd "feck" here and there.

I'm sure some of you will agree with what I've said and some will not. You have this right just as I have the right to say it in the first place and that my friends is what it's all about.

Anyway, all that I have left to say is well done to Scotty and the team for doing a job that is thankless and something I would not like to be doing. Long may it continue.

[Guest]

Having slept thinking about this issue I realise that I have been thinking only of my issues on this forum, I admit that most of the crud the mods have had to put up with have been ignored by myself. I have no interest in the personal battles of others and have largely ignored posts which mods have had to deal with. I suspect that this is the same with all members barring the mods, the mods have to deal with every issue which raises it's head whilst the rest of us are quite happy to only get involved in what takes our interest. IHE is correct, the mod's job is thankless and one which I would not want.

I think what would be helpful is if members were to take an attitude more akin to that of Renegade, the amount of ribbing that guy takes is unreal but he rarely bites back and never loses the plot or sees the ribbing as anything but banter, he deserves a lot of respect for his attitude on here (maybe not some of his ideas on tactics and scouting though ) I think the mods could loosen their attitude on what is banter and what is actually out and out insult. Some folk could do with growing some thicker skin but in the same way some people could do with thinking about who they are actually talking to. There are posters on here who are young and have ideas about the world which are very naive, instead of giving them a verbal slapping down older posters should be explaining things to them not just saying "You are talking chit" take the time to explain why you think they are wrong and back it up, if you can't do that then don't get involved. (this should apply to every response to every poster really)

One thing which does bug me is when someone starts a thread and someone jumps in to say "why are you discussing this it's a crap subject" this adds nothing to the thread but animosity, if a subject does not interest you don't open the thread, simple. Perhaps a removal of the post count would help in this.

I think some of the comedy type threads which are moved from the ICT forum could be allowed to sit longer in there to raise the mood. At the moment the ICT forum is a dour place, due to our current form on the park, and some people rarely venture out of there, leaving some of IHE's comedy in there for a week or so might help to remove some of the ill feeling and give us somewhere to banter, leaving the more serious ICT threads as serious. I realise that the general nonsense area was created for this but it is a minor section of the membership which actually use this area. Basically if there is a good feeling in the thread and it is connected, no matter how loosely, to ICT then leave it.

So in conclusion, anything I wrote last night bashing mods is utter chit and point scoring which is an attitude I thought I had put aside for CTO. I dragged this thread OT and apologise to you all for it, this thread should be used to bring back the spirit our club, and Scotty's website, used to have and not as an opportunity to settle old scores.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

As a poster, although only occasional, for many years, I can say that I have noticed quite a change in the forum over that time.

There seems to be less 'fun' these days and much of the banter now seems to have an edge to it which wasn't there before, which I find regretful.

This seems to coincide with the influx of new, younger posters, many of whom have no old Caley or Thistle loyalties, which in itself used to contribute to a lot of the banter in 'ye olden days'.

I'm sure this new breed of supporter is the future of both the club and the forum, but it doesn't mean old dinasaurs like me have to like it. Maybe I'd be more tolerant if their posts indicated that they had at least attended school and learned to speak our language.

But, perhaps as they mature and develop a culture of their own, things will settle down and the forum may return to a style of 'reasoned debate', rather than the current abuse and name calling which prevails at present.

In the meantime I can only add my thanks to the administrators and moderators who carry out a thankless task with patience and, in the main, good humour.

[BIGTAMS]

Carry on the good work Don and Scotty and also i would like Donview and Downinthedumps and many others to return to the site and post more often so that we can get the craic going again, not the abuse from some posters we have had to endure lately and feel by posting back at them we were falling into their way of thinking, we can all be critical of the team and club as a whole but it would be better for all if it was constructive not vicious.

[davie]

First off, it's sad that it has come to this from Scotty & Don, but the quality of posts is entirely reflective of the quality of support. If there is no atmosphere at TCS, negativity and intolerance from the supporters (or a significant section of the supporters) a perceived lack of communication from the Club and a team on the pitch that fails to live up to expectations (no matter how reasonable or otherwise they are) then these things will manifest themselves here. I would imagine that trying to reconcile that lot would drive you mad over time.

There is no question, however, that things have gone downhill, but rather than taking measures to control (increased mod activity) or alienate (little brother site for section G) this church needs to broaden it's appeal. There may be an opportunity here to canvass on our core values and pin them to a code of conduct that posters adhere to. If they fail to, it's a yellow card. Another one and it's a red and you get banned for a preordained period. Serious monkey busines, straight red.

I think, though, that we have to recognise that we represent the motivated amongst the support, the ones who can actually be bothered to stand up and voice an opinion. We need more of these, of broader representation. But it has to be about opinion rather than name calling and baiting, otherwise people will become worn down by it and cease to feel that running this site is a worthwhile excercise.

[RiG]

A sub forum was set up for Section G / Singing Section style posts but it was removed. I think it was either hardly used by those who had demanded it. Was a couple of years ago in fairness.

[davie]

A sub forum was set up for Section G / Singing Section style posts but it was removed. I think it was either hardly used by those who had demanded it. Was a couple of years ago in fairness.

That's the point though RiG, I'd be more worried if it had succeeded. We don't need factions within what is, in essence, a small support. I understand where they are coming from when I read posts like Caleymad in Berks above: I don't agree with some of it, but I think that you are entitled to your point of view and to voice it. But why the need to point out the spelling? It just creates more division over a point that didn't need to be made. One thing that is correct here, though, is that the "younger" posters on here are the opinion formers of the future for this club, and they need to be encouraged unconditionally.

[SMEE]

My personal feeling is that the site goes hand in hand with how the club are doing. We do well we get lots of positive posts and every one is happy. However we have been on a sustained downturn and as a result posting has generally been more on the negative side and emotions often boil over and things get out of hand. If we start going on a good run again I think you will find the forum change again.

Exacta flippin mundo!

[absent friend]

That's the point though RiG, I'd be more worried if it had succeeded. We don't need factions within what is, in essence, a small support. I understand where they are coming from when I read posts like Caleymad in Berks above: I don't agree with some of it, but I think that you are entitled to your point of view and to voice it. But why the need to point out the spelling? It just creates more division over a point that didn't need to be made. One thing that is correct here, though, is that the "younger" posters on here are the opinion formers of the future for this club, and they need to be encouraged unconditionally.

Your last seven words concern me. I do not think the 'younger posters' require to be encouraged unconditionally, they require to toe the line when posting and accept that a certain standard has to be set.

If they require to be Forum upstarts let them blow off steam on P & B and come on here once they have seen sense.

I have posted, in the past, my appreciation of this forum but there is no doubt that in the recent past postings have gone downhill.

If we accept that postings must reflect the onfield/support behaviour then we are in for a hard time on here. Losing in this league is something we will have to get used to but we could still end up in a good place - better placed for next season for instance.

Childish postings should not be tolerated.

I feel we are suffering from a small minority of 'problem puppies' and this should not spoil it for the rest of us.

.

[SMEE]

I think Scotty and Co should name and shame those users responsible for his current feeling towards the site.

My own personal view is, maybe i am thicker skinned than many on here, but seldom see stuff on here that i find borderline.

I feel that people have the right to be negative at the moment, as our league standing belies the utter garbage that is being served up and labelled as football this last few seasons. Lets remember, people pay a lot of money to go to games, and it is human nature to feel aggreived if you feel you have been short changed.

And i put this down to a view i have long held. We ICT supporters have had it so good, our entire history until that game against Falkirk, last game of last season. We are now experiencing the realities of football for the first time in our short history and many are struggling to deal with it. And it is manifesting itself on here, the only place fans can vent their frustrations.

[BA]

And i put this down to a view i have long held. We ICT supporters have had it so good, our entire history until that game against Falkirk, last game of last season. We are now experiencing the realities of football for the first time in our short history and many are struggling to deal with it. And it is manifesting itself on here, the only place fans can vent their frustrations.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there. We have been use to success and this is the first time we have had a failure. The fact that many people on here have supported one of the 'big two' and can't take defeat like the rest of us means they have to come on here and start spouting their rubbish, although these people are either very quiet when we go on a good run or they are the first people on here saying how great it is all going.

[Oz647]

I think Scotty and Co should name and shame those users responsible for his current feeling towards the site.

My own personal view is, maybe i am thicker skinned than many on here, but seldom see stuff on here that i find borderline.

I feel that people have the right to be negative at the moment, as our league standing belies the utter garbage that is being served up and labelled as football this last few seasons. Lets remember, people pay a lot of money to go to games, and it is human nature to feel aggreived if you feel you have been short changed.

And i put this down to a view i have long held. We ICT supporters have had it so good, our entire history until that game against Falkirk, last game of last season. We are now experiencing the realities of football for the first time in our short history and many are struggling to deal with it. And it is manifesting itself on here, the only place fans can vent their frustrations.

Agree with everything you said Smee. The only thing is why should others put up with it? Someone goes to the match , we lose, he/she then comes on here and starts an arguement or slagging others off because of their views. Why should others suffer that abuse? The answer is they shouldn't but it happens. I think name and shame is a good idea, people might think twice if their name is up for all to see.

[SMEE]

Agree with everything you said Smee. The only thing is why should others put up with it?

There are three types of posters on this site, The happy clappers, The Moaners, and the Realists. I consider my self a Realist. The problem is, the other two sections are as guilty as each other of attacking the other when someone airres a view contrary to theirs. This mentality is evident on EVERY forum on the internet i have been on. Its the nature of the beast!

Another view is thus...Football is ultimatley a results game, when we do get a win these days, it seems to be at the expense of entertainment. So, question is, which is more important, to win....or to leave feeling entertained? Being honest....i would go for the latter. I have often mentioned on here, that in my opinion, the Best ICT game ever was the 4-3 loss to Livi. 10 yrs on and it's still the one game that sticks out in my mind. Im serious when i say....i would rather take 36 such results each season and feel like i have been entertained than ths current philosophy of win ugly. And while we are stuck in the current situation, there will always be bitching.

Edited November 18, 2009 by SMEE

[Guest]

AF what I am reading from your post is that you do not wish for the forum to evolve, you wish for your way of thinking (pretty much the way of thinking of the "older" members) to remain the standard for the forum.

I may be wrong in my assumption but this is certainly how I understand your post. I believe that this is the problem here, we have a core of the membership who believe that nothing should change but the point is we have an evolving support, we have moved from being a three faction group (Caley, Thistle and neutrals who joined shortly after the merger) to being a four faction group, we have a new generation of 15 to 25 year olds who know very little, if not nothing about the pre-merger and immediate post merger history of the club. These young guys are coming in, fresh faced full of new ideas and new ways of communicating and the old school seem intolerant of them.

This forum has to evolve to accommodate the support otherwise it will wither and die like us old feckers. If you want to keep it like an old man's club then fair enough but would you not prefer lively (but non confrontational) debate or a bunch of old men agreeing with every post written?

If you really do advocate that childish posting should not be tolerated then should we not make this place age restricted, then we could allow swearing, pasting pictures of half naked women in the general nonsense area, drug discussion in the serious topics area? Or do you only want to allow subjects and opinions which you, yourself agree with?

Personally I think that we dinosaurs should try to keep up with the times, we are the ones who should be trying to accommodate the newbies not the other way around. I do not mean bend over to their demands but at least listen to what they have to say and try to understand why. If we never moved on as a species women would still be uneducated and unable to vote, racial minorities would still be getting called unacceptable names and I would be posting on a Caledonian FC message board and visiting an Inverness Thistle one to abuse their fans.

[ICTFCkev]

we have a new generation of 15 to 25 year olds who know very little, if not nothing about the pre-merger and immediate post merger history of the club. These young guys are coming in, fresh faced full of new ideas and new ways of communicating and the old school seem intolerant of them.

This forum has to evolve to accommodate the support otherwise it will wither and die like us old feckers. If you want to keep it like an old man's club then fair enough but would you not prefer lively (but non confrontational) debate or a bunch of old men agreeing with every post written?

Being one of those mentioned in your first paragraph, I have made posts before that could be deemed inappropriate and childish. Although most of these will likely be tongue in cheek (minus a smiley) or just plain humour to me, I do respect that others will have a different viewpoint to this, and have found myself apologising to Mods on occasion when I realise I've been guilty of breaking a forum rule in one way or another.

Though I have had run ins with Mods before, I can honestly say I can't argue with any of the reasons I've had for Warning Level being increased, and would even say there have been times I've expected an increase, but Mods have looked over it. This is good how at times they will show a degree of leniency to users IMO.

New users of all ages will join the site all the time, and it is important everyones points of view are respected and tolerated by posters.

They do a thankless task, and for that I'm sure 99.999% of CTO users, myself included, are grateful, and hope they keep up the good work.

[Downinthedumps]

:)

Carry on the good work Don and Scotty and also i would like Donview and Downinthedumps and many others to return to the site and post more often so that we can get the craic going again, not the abuse from some posters we have had to endure lately and feel by posting back at them we were falling into their way of thinking, we can all be critical of the team and club as a whole but it would be better for all if it was constructive not vicious. B)

Like BIGTAMS said I used to be a regular poster in the early days of the site and it was the first stop for me when I started an evenings surfing. In those days any light-hearted abuse and banter was aimed at the good folk(sic) of Dingwall and not at our fellow ICT posters. Back then though we were probably just happy to have a forum where we could discuss the rise of ICT. I still believe this site had a big say in us gaining promotion to The Premier League thanks to the online petition which highlited nationally our battle with Partick Thistle to gain our rightful spot in the top league. As previous posters have pointed out a large number of posts degenerate in to personal abuse and quite frankly are so boring that I lose interest and surf elsewhere.

Don't give up yet guys and just keep handing out those :32:

[Guest]

What do site users want from the forum and site in the future? Some suggestions might not be feasible but I am sure they will be considered if they are practical. I liked the idea of the "I Like" thing from Facebook. Maybe work that with reputation points or something along those lines?

I like this idea RiG, how about expanding it to "Karma" points where users get a set amount of points, variable dependent on Karma level, with which they can add good or bad Karma to a poster. If a posters Karma was to reach a deplorably low level then their posting could be restricted in some manner. This could have the potential to lead to a more self policing community, someone posting a heap of rubbish constantly would soon learn that the community do not agree with his views.

[RiG]

And i put this down to a view i have long held. We ICT supporters have had it so good, our entire history until that game against Falkirk, last game of last season. We are now experiencing the realities of football for the first time in our short history and many are struggling to deal with it. And it is manifesting itself on here, the only place fans can vent their frustrations.

I've been saying that for some time on here now and no one else has ever posted anything like it to the best of my knowledge :)

I like this idea RiG, how about expanding it to "Karma" points where users get a set amount of points, variable dependent on Karma level, with which they can add good or bad Karma to a poster. If a posters Karma was to reach a deplorably low level then their posting could be restricted in some manner. This could have the potential to lead to a more self policing community, someone posting a heap of rubbish constantly would soon learn that the community do not agree with his views.

The biggest problem will be "enforcing" it and by that I mean how do we avoid one poster being picked on and lots of bad "reputation" / "karam" added which would end up in them not being able to post as freely as they would wise.

Edited November 18, 2009 by RiG