CTO - The Future

[Scotty]

I more than most I have probably ruffled a few feathers and taken a stance that may be viewed as an "alternative" view and that has often been an unpopular aproach. After all what do you expect? My username is not "HappyClapper" or "123Agree", I am an alternative, I am a devil's advocate, I am a Renegade.

What I've always tried to do, is not come on fiercely with only one view on certain things, been open to other's viewpoints (I've often changed my view when seeing other's viewpoints) and not gone on witchhunts to increase my own self pleasure. Sadly in recent months to the last year or so, the latter seems to be on the up. I can't count the number of times I've had the brunt of the witch hunt for the ultimate crime of disagreeing with such and such a point. It usually starts with me posting my view, one regular anti-Renegade poster coming on and unsurprisingly disagrees, and then on come the rest of the cheerleaders with non-comments to the first disagreer like "100% agree!" or "Renegade you're an idiot!" and no doubt a few smileys just for good measure. I must be the most hated poster on the site these days, it's become hilarious.

I wouldnt say you have ruffled feathers Renegade, however I would agree that you have been the target of a good deal of abuse aimed squarely at you by certain other posters regardless of what you post and to be honest, at times I do admire your restraint as you have rarely if ever complained or stooped to the same level. It is this kind of abuse that we are sick and tired of and will get rid of one way or another. It doesnt matter if I (or anyone else) agree with your posts/opinions or not (most of the time I dont ) you are articulating them in a normal manner so there is no need or justification for the abuse that is posted in response.

On another note there's a couple of types of posters that have sprung up over the last couple of years. One that I have noticed kow is that there's one or two regular posters (who will remain anonymous), who do nothing but come on here but to cause trouble. You can often spot them. They seldomly have any individual views of their own other down negative ones and belittleing others one, usually only posting a line or so at the most. They're also the first to point out other's mistakes (such as the awful crime of a minor spelling mistake) and start a hate group against a poster they not like. They're also ultra-pedantic and will often act all incident when any attacks are made on them (some also like to suck up to the mods when this happens or even "admit their mistake" when a mods points out their mistake to them). Just ban these morons. They are not to any benefit to this site or other posters on here.

I am aware of several people who fit into the profile you have just described and again, it is evident that they are missing from this thread, presumably as I mentioned posts would be deleted or topic bans issued, so they know they cant get their jollies on here.

I am not one to hold a grudge and there are many people on here who I have had ding-dong battles with over email or PM in the past but if you are participating in the forum and therefore adding value to it, any dispute is water under the bridge once it is resolved as far as i am concerned. However, as you described, if all someone wants to do is stir the pot, cause trouble or add absolutely nothing to the site other than abuse or a few sarcastic smilies, you will get short shrift on your way out.

I reckon you rid the ointment of the flies....and continue to do so till you have the forum you want! Do you just ban by email addy or can you ban an IP Addy?

We have several tools in our arsenal including IP bans (both individual ips and ranges of IPs), username bans, email bans (individual and domain wide), proxy server bans etc.

With respect to actually banning folk, one of the things I do take heart from in this thread is that although I freely admit (and have always admitted) that we as mods/admin do not always get it right, their does seem to be a greater willingness of some posters to accept that there are problem posters since I started this thread and that it is not always the mods who are the bad bar stewards.

If the normal, decent posters on this site can and will work with the mods to weed out the problem posters then it will be a far better site for us all. Now I dont mean we all turn on the problem posters and abuse them, that would go against everything I have said up to now, however, one way that normal posters can help make it better is to try not to jump on the bandwagon that frequently develops when someone is warned or excluded. I have seen it all too often, we give someone a warning and the next thing we know there are snide comments about the mods being on power trips or personal comments about size, shape or attitude and then one by one others join in and we have a rapidly developing "us and them" situation. That puts more pressure on everyone, posters and mods alike, and it is then when posts that might be innocuous or "banter" on other days get misinterpreted or nitpicked as offensive, abusive or otherwise undesirable by mods and posters alike because everyone is looking for the hidden meaning or sub-current of abuse.

As I mentioned earlier in this discussion, when the mods are back to defcon5 instead of defcon2 it is more relaxed for us all. If the mods are not under pressure from a barrage of complaints and people trying to get a reaction, things are more relaxed for us all and we are less likely to catch someone in the crossfire who doesnt deserve our wrath.

In other words, if we can be a bit more self-moderating (without being abusive about it) perhaps we can benefit from seeing less official moderating.

anonymity + an audience = idiocy. I forget where thats lifted from but it rings true on this site. Sadly its what to be expected on most forums, it gives people the chance to say what they want knowing there will be no ramifications.

The fans i know like myself who read the site but dont post regularly, dont tend to do so because of the polar views that are expressed without any thought (we lose = butcher out). I think these views have risen recently, perhaps as said due to the influx of younger posters.

I think its a sad situation but if its becoming a chore to run the forum then maybe change is needed.

I would suggest:

No/limited posting rights for under 18's (make sure they can still read the forum)

temporary bans (work like a dream on other sites)

The ability for individuals to instantly block other users

Agree about the anonymity comment and I have seen it on all sorts of boards not just this one.

However, users who think there are no ramifications to what they post should perhaps think again and realise that in certain circumstances their anonymity is not assured. Although the data protection act means we do not give out user information to anyone, we can be requested or compelled to disclose information about members' accounts if the situation warrants it. The information we would have would be your username, email address and ip address(es) used to access the site on certain dates/times. If you are using a direct connection, the authorities then perform the same task with your Internet provider and can tie it down to exactly who you are based on which account connected and was issued that IP address at that time on that day. And dont think using a proxy helps much either. most proxy servers only disguise a portion of your web experience (eg port 80 for browser access). This is why for example things like the BBC geographic blocking is usually unaffected if you are using a proxy as other ports on your computer such as those used for real player or media player streams or for torrents are unaffected and still report the original IP. This is one of the ways that the movie and music business find people to make an example of in the torrent system. It is an extreme example, but it serves to show that you might be "anonymous" on the board but no matter how well you try to disguise yourself, you always leave some footprints.

I also have to add that we also have a legal duty of care to remove anything that could be deemed unlawful, slanderous, libellous etc. Whilst it is unlikely that anyone would go after us for a poster making a post of this nature, it is not impossible and although the poster is ultimately liable for what they post, we can also be nailed if we allow the platform to be used as such. Its something that the lawyers drilled into us when we were part of the rivals network. Our site was never sued, but quite a few were !!!!

Reading through this thread, I see the younger posters being blamed for a lot of the crap on the boards and whilst I would agree that this is true to an extent you cannot tar all the youngsters with that same brush. I would also say that stupidity, abuse and problem posting is definitely not the exclusive domain of the youngsters, especially some of the actions of certain posters that I regard as bullying and is focused AT the youngsters rather than being from them. I would resist any suggestion that restricts access to the youngsters as that does not send out much of a message to them. They already think they get a rough deal from certain club officials (or former officials) and now there are suggestions that we do the same. not going to happen. We might be old farts and not understand the youth of today as someone said but as far as I am concerned everyone is welcome on here regardless of age, sex, or even which team they support (eh Heilandee). The behaviour they exhibit will determine whether or not they are allowed to stay. I would also add that we have actually taken great pleasure on a few occasions recently in mentoring rather than punishing a few newer posters and their inital abraisiveness and "over-exuberance" has subsided and they are becoming valued posters who contribute to the discussions on the site.

With regards to temporary bans, I think that is one tool in the arsenal that we have, we just need to make sure it is used fairly. From the discussions so far, I think the idea of "golden rules" is a good one and if we communicate that to everyone so they know where they stand, it can be effective.

Block other users - as mentioned above, normal site users can already do that via your profile. One caveat is that you cannot block mods/admin and we cannot block anyone at all

Finally on the "not posting" comment. I agree with you to an extent and I have talked with friends who read but dont post for the same reason. I will say the same to you as I say to them .... If you dont post because the views you are reading are negative and you feel positive or you see the extreme ones like a loss meaning a barrage of Butcher Out calls and you feel (like me) that it is at times a huge over-reaction, then by not posting you are only helping to perpetuate the problem. If we had a few more people expressing varied opinions then the discussion improves and becomes more balanced. I am hoping if we can get rid of the abuse and get back to discussion that some of those who are reticent to post might dip a toe in the water !

If you take a peek at my avatar, you will see that I am only to familiar with the big brother, censor, style. I cannot access Faceb, Twitter, Picassa, Blogspot etc. It is not a great road to go down. I believe that this forum should cease to be anonymous. I think that would help the forum in terms of virtual bullies, liability, personal attacks, et al. Anyway that could realistically be done?

On the Japanese version of Facebook, called Mixi, membership is by invitation only. That may work?

I dont think removing anonymity would be workable or manageable. Some people will always want to be anonymous and that is fine. If they want to hide behind that anonymity to perpetrate bullying, abuse etc then we will get rid of them using our new golden rules that users are shaping by posting in this thread. However one thing I can say about the next version of this forum software (which we are testing right now) is that it is very much more social network friendly. there are options to link your account to facebook, twitter can be accomodated and all sorts of other things so users who want to be more a part of the community on the site can certainly do so.

Ideas requiring proof of age, identity etc are very impractical unfortunately.

Invitation only? I suppose that could be achieved by creating an invitation only forum that only the "best" posters can access. It has its merits, but there are obvious downsides of creating a two-tier site, alienating those not selected to join.

Invitation only forums are something we may look at if we have to. In fact we already have a couple like that which you cannot see unless you have been a member of the Highland March team or a VPN subscriber. These are not based on being the "best posters" but are niche forums where specific things are discussed so of no interest to most posters unless they are involved in either venture.

Another alternative is to look at how we "group" posters and make increased access available based on your group. For example everyone when they join currently goes into the "members" group and pretty much stays there forever unless they become a site sponsor (sponsor group) or a mod or admin (mod, senior mod, or admin groups). Site sponsors dont see any additional forums but Mods and Admin do have access to an area of the site where all complaints get discussed. Different groups can also have different permissions so perhaps there may be some validity in splitting the members grioup into a few others ... new members (where access to all the features is a little more limited and you maybe dont get to use a signature or avatar), then members (same as now) and then perhaps after a specific length of time (rather than posts or your age) you become a "member+" or something like that and are given extra permissions.

One thing we wont do however is ever ask users to pay for access to our main football forums. Whilst we may consider adding additional "lounges" (or something like that) for a members+ group or for the sponsor group we will never force users to subscribe to access the main football forums.

The ability for individuals to instantly block other users

personally i think that idea could work, seperate the chaff from the decent posts in one click, if enough people block certain users they will get the message

You can already block posters you dont want to read. However, I believe the new software also has an optional module we can add that will allow you to filter which forums and which topics you see in your new posts page. I will look into it. This will not be evident in this board but may be incorporated as/if/when we switch to V3 of this software.

I don't think an under-18 ban should be imposed at all. As long as they're not being abusive (and let's face it, that's nothing to do with age), that's fine. I can remember one certain teen lady here was told to not complain, when she quite rightly responded that she was being supportive of Brewster for months but only got attacked for it. And yet, without her making any (that I can remember) derogatory comments, she should be banned? Definitely no age barrier.

And, what do you mean by respect? I certainly get offended by the Islamophobia spoken about by certain members on here. Should that be banned? If not, should anti-Semitism, homophobia, anti-black be ok too?

I can't believe anyone hates Renegade. I disagree with about 90% of his posts but certainly enjoy reading them probably more than anyone else's.

I think I covered the U18 stuff above. The rest is a hard one to legislate. I have no time for anyone who is prejudiced against someone because of race/religion/lifestyle etc but unfortunately they have the right to hold that opinion. How they express it however may lead to consequences. Given your geographical location, I am assuming you have many friends who are muslim and possibly jewish so you may be more aware of some of the more subtle references or passive aggressive BS that others might miss. I would suggest that in those instances you either PM the person, or bring it to the moderators attention using the report button.

One of the great things about the city where I live is that it is one of the most multi-cultural in the world and one where these sorts of problems do not seem to be a major issue (not saying they dont exist though). I think I have friends that fall into each of the categories you mentioned above and although I can spot overt reactions to them based on colour/religion or lifestyle, it is the more subtle stuff that I as an agnostic white male do not always pick up on. Please feel free to point this out if you see it and it truly offends.

along the same lines but maybe this site could have a seperate part to the forum which could be self moderated but could have a disclaimer to say that posting is at scrutiny/mercy of other posters and responsibility should be the posters as things such as libelous posts may be prosecuted and shall not be moderated by the sites owners?

As I mentioned above when talking of anonymity, the poster themself is ultimately responsible for the content of their post but we as a forum that provides them with a platform to express their opinion also have a legal duty of care to act responsibly and we can also be held accountable. I have no objection if we can get to the stage (as also mentioned earleir) where we do self moderate more as that would make all of our lives easier but as with everything else mentioned on this thread ... it needs buy-in from the site members to make it work.

I feel that any exclusion of a poster from the foum based on age is ridiculous. Unless they are abusive and / or spam the forum then there is no reason not to allow them on the site. As ICTChris says every forum has their idiots. CTO isn't any different.

I'll ask again as no one has really answered the question - apart from suggesting banning a large core of our fanbase - but what would you want to see on CTO to make it a better site/ forum? It is the users of a site that make it what it is so what do you want to see more / less of?

Personally I think we need more user input into the site. A while ago Scotty ran a recruitment drive to get more folk to help out with articles for the site but I can count on one hand the number of reports that these folk have done. It's been a very disappointing return based on the initial interest shown.

Age Issue - dealt with above

Better Site - My biggest thing is for us to get rid of the abuse and get back to the roots of being a discussion forum. If users and mods/admin can work together to go down that road, better things will follow. Less abuse means less need for moderator intervention which in turn means mods are less likely to make mistakes in that moderation and people get less uptight or sensitive when something is moved/edited/deleted or when given a warning. To my mind it is all about changing a downward spiral where things are getting more and more out of sync into an upward spiral where things continue to improve to the point where we might just get some of the craic back.

Editorial Team - yes, that is disappointing. One the one hand users tell us they want to have more input into the site and yet when we make that opportunity available we get a handful of volunteers and of those perhaps only 1 or 2 who submitted anything. We would like this to be a fan site by the fans and for the fans but that is unrealistic unless everyone works together. Our team was at its most effective when they all worked for each other ... the same is probably true of this site !

I know it's probably not allowed but you could mentio the website to get in more users. Like CaleyD could give it a mention at the home games before KO or HT.

I dont think that is appropriate. It would be an abuse of Don's position as announcer. I would far rather that we worked with the club and got a mention for being one part of any joint venture we worked on with them. Think the club shop still have some caleythistleonline.com poly bags though

I get the feeling that this topic has aired a lot of feelings and things will quieten down for a spell untill.....

Here's hoping it can change some things permanently ! I am sure there are more issues just around the corner somewhere but everything I have posted here is open and honest and if users can try to make this a better place we will try to do the same so that together we can take the forum forward.

I am actually quite excited about the new version of the forum software as I think it has the potential to make this more of a community but to be honest, I havent bothered doing much with it yet as I have been feeling this way about the site.

This thread IS proving to be somewhat cathartic but I still wonder about some of the posters who havent yet made a comment ... will they agree and help make it better? or will they carry on as normal and try to make our lives difficult? If they do the latter, will those who have made good and sensible comments on here (that we are listening to) point out the error of their ways (in a respectful fashion)? or will it all be hot air and BS and we will have another ****storm?

[12th Man]

There seem to be a lot of talk of censorship and bans.

I would say that there is a huge range of posters on this site from intellects, young to old, to dafties of the same age range too, so it must be tiresome for intelligent people to have to filter through a lot of drivel to read what interests them but does that give them the right to look down on someones opinion with a lower IQ, just because they have a plethora of knowledge.

This is a hub for ICT fans and if I was to vote to limit/censor the young or dafties then I would be censoring myself on the latter.

I would like to chuck a few negative minded critical loud mouth individuals out of the home stand but unfortunately I dont have any greater right to be there than them.

So is it a case of emphasising 'Not to cause offence to fellow users of this site and to be more aware of the forum rules'.

I would like to see this site closed. Now before you start rolling up the sleeves, how about closing this site a week after the end of the season for a few weeks, It would give the people who run this site a timely break, not much will happen over this period anyway and it will remind people not to take this site for granted and to appreciate it a little more.

[Heilandee]

Could we have a new rule that Scotty and CaleyD are banned from posting consecutively as it takes too feckin long to read through their monologues back to back :004:

[Scotty]

There seem to be a lot of talk of censorship and bans.

I would say that there is a huge range of posters on this site from intellects, young to old, to dafties of the same age range too, so it must be tiresome for intelligent people to have to filter through a lot of drivel to read what interests them but does that give them the right to look down on someones opinion with a lower IQ, just because they have a plethora of knowledge. This is a hub for ICT fans and if I was to vote to limit/censor the young or dafties then I would be censoring myself on the latter.

I would like to chuck a few negative minded critical loud mouth individuals out of the home stand but unfortunately I dont have any greater right to be there than them. So is it a case of emphasising 'Not to cause offence to fellow users of this site and to be more aware of the forum rules'.

There needs to be a structure available to the moderators/admin to deal with those posters who dont adhere to the site rules. I think we have pretty much agreed to rework the current rules into a shorter set of "golden rules" and these will be in plain English. I have already borrowed Davie's "golden rule" suggestion and we will probably look to develop a structured system (i like the yellow/red card idea to keep it football related) so that people (and the mods) know what and where the boundaries are. Communication of this will be key.

Any rules will deal more with conduct than content (other than the requisite reference to -isms or inappropriate material). I think I have made it plain that age will not be one of the criteria for exclusion and neither will IQ ... i think we can all be a bit of a "daftie" at times so we would have to exclude ourselves :004:

I would like to see this site closed. Now before you start rolling up the sleeves, how about closing this site a week after the end of the season for a few weeks, It would give the people who run this site a timely break, not much will happen over this period anyway and it will remind people not to take this site for granted and to appreciate it a little more.

That is a very interesting suggestion. not really sure what to say other than we might have to involuntarily do that anyway when we take the plunge and transfer the site from our current hosts (with all the downtime) and move it to our new hosts ... it will likely take a few days for the new address to resolve over the internet so the site would be inaccessible during that time

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Most football forums are full of ill-informed idiots arguing about things they barely understand and find impossible to articulate. Would we have it any other way? All forums have these debates, issues with 'schoolkid' posters, problems with the mods. To my mind it's part and parcel of a forum.

:D Succinct and straight to the jugular - absolutely spot on.

Every forum should have erseholes like poor old Renegade and myself - but nobody protects or listens to me when I am being abused as I regularly am :D

[Scotty]

self-abuse doesnt count :D

[davie]

That's the point though RiG, I'd be more worried if it had succeeded. We don't need factions within what is, in essence, a small support. I understand where they are coming from when I read posts like Caleymad in Berks above: I don't agree with some of it, but I think that you are entitled to your point of view and to voice it. But why the need to point out the spelling? It just creates more division over a point that didn't need to be made. One thing that is correct here, though, is that the "younger" posters on here are the opinion formers of the future for this club, and they need to be encouraged unconditionally.

Your last seven words concern me. I do not think the 'younger posters' require to be encouraged unconditionally, they require to toe the line when posting and accept that a certain standard has to be set.

If they require to be Forum upstarts let them blow off steam on P & B and come on here once they have seen sense.

I have posted, in the past, my appreciation of this forum but there is no doubt that in the recent past postings have gone downhill.

If we accept that postings must reflect the onfield/support behaviour then we are in for a hard time on here. Losing in this league is something we will have to get used to but we could still end up in a good place - better placed for next season for instance.

Childish postings should not be tolerated.

I feel we are suffering from a small minority of 'problem puppies' and this should not spoil it for the rest of us.

.

Sorry, I'm late in coming back to this (that work thing again) and the argument has probably moved on again. Again, absent friend, I respect but don't agree with your point of view. My use of the word "unconditional" was carefully considered and used because the "conditions" of use of this site are not at all clear (in a broad sense). If they are not, people will seek to impose their own conditions ("childish postings etc. , problem puppies, upstarts) If that happens, like any diverse family, we will descend into acrimony. That's when the parents go "......this for a game of soldiers" and...you get the picture. Accept that people hold different views. Accept that they will wind each other up and if they are young and pushing it (isn't that what young people do?) shake your head, point out a better way and realise it's a long game and they will learn. If they don't, we might just have to live without them. But not arbitarily and only if they understand fully the rules that they have broken. I'm sorry that 7 words concerned you; it should have only been the 1.

[Oz647]

That's the point though RiG, I'd be more worried if it had succeeded. We don't need factions within what is, in essence, a small support. I understand where they are coming from when I read posts like Caleymad in Berks above: I don't agree with some of it, but I think that you are entitled to your point of view and to voice it. But why the need to point out the spelling? It just creates more division over a point that didn't need to be made. One thing that is correct here, though, is that the "younger" posters on here are the opinion formers of the future for this club, and they need to be encouraged unconditionally.

Your last seven words concern me. I do not think the 'younger posters' require to be encouraged unconditionally, they require to toe the line when posting and accept that a certain standard has to be set.

If they require to be Forum upstarts let them blow off steam on P & B and come on here once they have seen sense.

I have posted, in the past, my appreciation of this forum but there is no doubt that in the recent past postings have gone downhill.

If we accept that postings must reflect the onfield/support behaviour then we are in for a hard time on here. Losing in this league is something we will have to get used to but we could still end up in a good place - better placed for next season for instance.

Childish postings should not be tolerated.

I feel we are suffering from a small minority of 'problem puppies' and this should not spoil it for the rest of us.

.

Sorry, I'm late in coming back to this (that work thing again) and the argument has probably moved on again. Again, absent friend, I respect but don't agree with your point of view. My use of the word "unconditional" was carefully considered and used because the "conditions" of use of this site are not at all clear (in a broad sense). If they are not, people will seek to impose their own conditions ("childish postings etc. , problem puppies, upstarts) If that happens, like any diverse family, we will descend into acrimony. That's when the parents go "......this for a game of soldiers" and...you get the picture. Accept that people hold different views. Accept that they will wind each other up and if they are young and pushing it (isn't that what young people do?) shake your head, point out a better way and realise it's a long game and they will learn. If they don't, we might just have to live without them. But not arbitarily and only if they understand fully the rules that they have broken. I'm sorry that 7 words concerned you; it should have only been the 1.

Sorry Davie but I must agree with AF here,

On the one hand you say we should encourage them unconditionally, then you state that if they don't learn then we will have to live without them. That sort of contradicts itself.

If we allow any group (Young or old) to do what they wish without rules and regs in any part of life then we descend into anarchy. That may seem a bit strong for a forum but you get the message. You also state that if we don't agree, shake our heads and point out that it's a long game. Ok and if they still keep slagging you or somebody else do we just encourage them unconditionally? You state the rules of the site are not clear enough. I do not need rules to tell me to respect others and try to add objective posts rather than some of the vile bigotted drivel that has been posted on here in the recent past.

I do accept that the younger posters are the future of the club but please don't bury us old farts just yet some of us still have a bit of life left in us.

[Scotty]

I have no problem with the encouragement of the posters themselves .... the posts however would be subject to the same conditions as everyone else

[absent friend]

Well Davie., problem puppies are found in any age bracket and whilst I accept my post 'attacked' the younger poster, you will find, in the recent past i.e. this week, that I have encouraged a young poster to consider the presentation and not the content, of their post, that is constructive.

It is without doubt a requirement to have younger blood introduced into this forum BUT they must be aware that there are boundries and whilst they may be 'in your face' - their postings must be embraced by 'respect for others'.

Now my older 'problem puppies' are also as above but they should know better!!

We all have the right to our views and indeed that is the richness of this forum - to debate is healthy - to attack the poster for holding differing views is childish in the extreme.

I have been labelled a 'muppet lover' a 'sweetie rustler' 'an idiot' etc because I do not accept booing of our players, unsupported criticism of the Board, that a loss is not the end of the world, even to the County but I can accept that this is in the spirit of the time and the hurting is there for all to see.

This is miles away from the problem being discussed by Scotty in my opinion and whilst a 'sack the board' 'sack the manager' is to be expected after a defeat, it is the long after negatitivy that undermines the enjoyment.

Anyway, roll on Sunday, get the sweeties ready and find a quite corner away from all the noise!!

.

[Johnboy]

Is Scotty's post at 101 the longest ever recorded in the history of CTO?

[absent friend]

As a PS to the forgoing .... Why can't I attack the young guys on here??

Parental funding, full sex life, no work concerns AND a full head of hair!!

Attack them??? I hate THEM!!

What jealousy?

[davie]

As a PS to the forgoing .... Why can't I attack the young guys on here??

Parental funding, full sex life, no work concerns AND a full head of hair!!

Attack them??? I hate THEM!!

What jealousy?

Listen, as one GOM (grumpy old man) to another I couldn't agree with you more. You could add them; travelling to places you've never been at your expense, having cool toys that you never had, being mair talented at football than you ever were. It's hellish, it really is. And say what you like, I'll not be calling you an eejit or anything else for that matter. It's your point of view.

[Scotty]

Is Scotty's post at 101 the longest ever recorded in the history of CTO?

no

[Kingsmills]

Is Scotty's post at 101 the longest ever recorded in the history of CTO?

no

Is Scotty's post at 114 the shortest ?

[WYNESS101]

Is Scotty's post at 101 the longest ever recorded in the history of CTO?

no

What is then?

[Scotty]

lets stay on topic please.

[Kirishima]

I think that a few good suggestions have been mentioned.

Golden Rules

3 week break

Yellow/Red cards

Though i regard myself as articulate, (and modest) i am not bothered if something written by someone else is not. As long as it attempts to add something to the discussion (i.e. isn't just an insult) then it doesn't cross my mind.

Younger users are the lifeblood of this forum. Eventually, one day, when Scotty and Caley D hang up their boots (or should it be mice) then one would hope that someone would keep the home fires burning. That will invariably (just proving my articulateness here...) be some young whippersnapper. Is there anyway the forum could encourage them to be more involved?

At present, some (and certainly not all) younglings are far too removed from the site (as in have never met scotty/caleyd, or any of the mods, and haven't been in the pubs yet to meet the other 97% demographic) to really care about the integrity of the site. Some initiatives could help self-moderation (until they get into the pubs)

Any thoughts on this?

[tm4tj]

Yep, you have just provided us with the perfect solution.

The Whippersnappers Forum.

I'll have a guinness thanks.

[TheKnowledge]

I reckon you should just ban the people that repeatedly annoy you. Even better, you could block the offending posters so no-one, apart from other offending posters can see what is being said, so they can argue and name call forever and ever, whilst no-one else is even aware of it.

Written word has always been the hardest way to express sarcasm and a lot of offense starts from this. I was in a foundation English class in school, which I thought was as low as it got but some of the writing on this site is impossible to make sense of, which leaves me wondering how much lower it goes? It's hard not to comment on it sometimes, especially because this takes place in spite of the built in speel checker. Despite this, I realise that attacking a person's education is always going to lead a thread to an irritating and messy conclusion so I'll never do it again.

I respect the mods, even if that's after a couple of personal messages to remind me that was is said on this site can be seen by any member of the public. I admire the amount of time I assume you all put in because I spend large chunks of my bosses time reading the posts on here, and still don't get through it all, and I have the luxury of ignoring bitchy threads. It must take all the mods a significant amount of your free time. I'm glad your feelings have been expressed, instead of you keeping it all to yourself and then one day suddenly pulling the plug. This site is a vital information hub for ICT (and Dundee) fans and is hugely appreciated.

PS. The friends only invite is an excellent idea is it provides posters with a little accountability.

PPS. We're not a big enough club to satisfy the modern desire for 24 hour, 365 days a year news that a lot of the modern EPL/champions league force fed football fans (me) require, and this could lead to people posting for the sake of creating an argument, to keep them occupied (not me).

[Renegade]

Can you do something about the amount of smileys certain posters use? Some folk seem to go a bit nuts with them and it makes the site look a bit unprofessional at times IMO.

[Alex MacLeod]

I reckon you should just ban the people that repeatedly annoy you. Even better, you could block the offending posters so no-one, apart from other offending posters can see what is being said, so they can argue and name call forever and ever, whilst no-one else is even aware of it.

Written word has always been the hardest way to express sarcasm and a lot of offense starts from this. I was in a foundation English class in school, which I thought was as low as it got but some of the writing on this site is impossible to make sense of, which leaves me wondering how much lower it goes? It's hard not to comment on it sometimes, especially because this takes place in spite of the built in speel checker. Despite this, I realise that attacking a person's education is always going to lead a thread to an irritating and messy conclusion so I'll never do it again.

I respect the mods, even if that's after a couple of personal messages to remind me that was is said on this site can be seen by any member of the public. I admire the amount of time I assume you all put in because I spend large chunks of my bosses time reading the posts on here, and still don't get through it all, and I have the luxury of ignoring bitchy threads. It must take all the mods a significant amount of your free time. I'm glad your feelings have been expressed, instead of you keeping it all to yourself and then one day suddenly pulling the plug. This site is a vital information hub for ICT (and Dundee) fans and is hugely appreciated.

PS. The friends only invite is an excellent idea is it provides posters with a little accountability.

PPS. We're not a big enough club to satisfy the modern desire for 24 hour, 365 days a year news that a lot of the modern EPL/champions league force fed football fans (me) require, and this could lead to people posting for the sake of creating an argument, to keep them occupied (not me).

Like others you probably never stop to think that badly written english may not be the result of poor education. Have you thought to consider that some of the poorer writers may well have problems such as dislexia, learning disabilities, etc. They may also be people who's first language is not english. To bully and abuse them for the way they write, in my mind, is sick. We are not all gifted with perfection.

[+DoofersDad]

Hear here

[Renegade]

I have to agree with The Knowledge. If you can't at least try to post in English, using punctuation and grammar etc to the best of your ability, as well as posting in a normal manner (not this new line for every phrase nonsense), then you shouldn't even try at all.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Renegade

[Scotty]

we are in danger of going off-topic here. I note the point about spelling/grammar etc but we dont need to discuss the merits of education or dyslexia in this thread - start a new one for that if you wish.

I will be posting a summary of what I feel we have gained from this thread and what I think is the way forward in the near future but as stated in the first post, we are still open to constructive suggestions.

I will note however that since this thread has been posted there has been a lot less moderation required and a lot less abuse on the forums so if nothing else, it has served to get us back on track at least somewhat and for that I thank those posters who have made the effort.